Could be in the low, single-digit-thousands.Originally Posted by CBTFC
The Blue Jays are scheduled to play Game 4 of their ALDS match up with Texas Rangers on Monday.
Could be in the low, single-digit-thousands.
The Blue Jays are scheduled to play Game 4 of their ALDS match up with Texas Rangers on Monday.
Hmm so the Houstan and Dallas would oppose a team in their regions, but somehow the Bills would be ok with Toronto team which would take revenue away from the Bills. After paying over a billion dollars for the franchise I am sure they have a clause stating Southern Ont. is part of their region. Hence no team for Toronto (Southern Ont.) appears to be more logical.
And about the talent from Canada, you write as if 50% of the leagues players are Canadian!
With the blowout today, this game may not be needed
Last edited by spe18; 10-06-2016 at 07:04 PM.
Bills owner Terry Pegula is on the record in stating he has no objection to a Toronto franchise joining the NFL. In fact, it's not hard to search out NFL commissioner Roger Goodell actually quoting Pegula on the matter. Pegula's a good businessman and a spirited-with-gusts-to-spiteful Toronto-Buffalo rivalry in the AFC East would be great business for both teams. Buffalo needs it more than you might imagine. It works for the Sabres.
Again, work that internet search thingy and see what conventional wisdom says about NFL expansion in Texas. What Jerry Jones wants, Jerry Jones gets. And Jerry Jones don't want neighbours in San Antone. It won't grow the NFL footprint in any significant way.
That last line of yours? No idea what you're on about.
Last edited by greatwhitenorf; 10-06-2016 at 09:54 PM.
Feels like if Trump were campaigning for the death of the CFL in Toronto, this is what he would say.
Soccer eroding CFL support?
Fans of football can be swayed to soccer? Straight line correlation there? (Btw that would also imply soccer fans could go to football)
So many examples, right? Like the raptors taking from the leafs? Or the Jays taking from TFC?
Your only point regarding interest is attendance. And here we have a next to last place Toronto team with questionably higher ticket prices in a situation where fans were alienated and they aren't selling out. Stop the press. Never happened before in this city.
You are a good writer and FYRC said I was long winded. So let's shorten this up and I will summarize your position.
You don't like the CFL. You are bitter that TFC ownership built a business model to profit from them. But we both know this is a long term ground share. ...:
... And your neighbours come out of their houses, gather on the corner and regularly discuss cricket.
Last edited by Pookie; 10-07-2016 at 05:47 AM.
Ironically, suggesting the NFL will do well in Toronto in the face of the Bills here fiasco shows the same sort of logic that led to people thinking the Argos would do well at BMO.
"Build it and they will come" should have its own place in the logical fallacy section of wikipedia.
Last edited by OgtheDim; 10-07-2016 at 06:08 AM.
Most definitely, and in fact there always has been.Channel 4 started showing NFL probably 25 yrs ago, I remember still being at school when they showed it. I also remember one of my first jobs leaving school was working in a bookies, and I remember the big interest there was in it from locals in betting on it.It has progressed on from that now to people actually liking and appreciating the sport.
And the money thrown around for this NFL fantasy to finally happen could more than finance the CPL. I don't see why one is more impossible than the other. Except for how many times the NFL rumour has popped up and been put down over the decades.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Thank God there is Pookie the defender of all things Argos and the CFL putting us soccer and TFC fans in our place.
I have regularly scratched my head at NFL in Toronto talkers for decades....for decades. It won't happen because NFL franchises just don't operate the way the other sports leagues operate. The two insurmountable problems for NFL in Toronto is American TV networks (they would block it) and US college football (which provides your all american base for the pro version).
Forget about franchises and rivalries - the NFL is a unique, top of the heap sports league because they are gold in the American tv market. They have a perfect relationship with ALL FOUR of the American tv networks. They rotate the Super Bowl amongst them, when Monday night football slipped they were smart enough to shift to Sunday night football. US tv pours billions into the NFL coffers. Canadian tv represents pocket change in comparison. You can talk all you want about a Toronto NFL team would enhance canadian tv revenue, but you are talking pocket change.
The existing Toronto sports franchises have historically been ratings disasters in the US. That is a prime factor in NFL decisions. We might see a shift in the years ahead as the NFL explores pay per game models over ad revenue tv models (and the Thursday night NFL game is on the NFL network, so they have a foothold on the media side) but don't hold your breath, the existing model is still too lucrative.
The other factor is US College football - it provides cash aplenty to US tv and it is a constant commercial for future NFL stars. Toronto just can't compete with the profile of US college. Think of US college football as a television blanket which convinces Americans that nothing worth watching exists outside of America.
And I have not even dragged in the fact that NFL demands individual owners....
I was reading an article last week (wish I could find it again) saying the NFL gets virtually no audience on TV in the UK except for the games played at Wembley. In part because of the time zone difference (early games come on at dinner time, later games are too late), but also just the fact that there isn't much NFL tradition there. The NFL is eyeing London for expansion to get a piece of the UK television money, since the Wembley games do do well on TV.
Still Kicking: By your logic, the NFL shouldn't even contemplate playing games in London, let alone setting up a franchise there. Yet they have shown a thorough think-through with regards to how London will work for them:
They've carefully staged logistical trials - e.g., flying San Fran to Nashville for a road game, then chartering the Niners to London for another road game, then chartering home where the team gets a bye week.
They've gradually increased the number of games played in London, carefully monitoring attendances and wider responses, and stepping up their presence as the market dictates.
They've moved from rotating in a wide variety of ever-changing teams to ensuring one team - Jacksonville - becomes a regular, on-going presence in the London series
They've evolved their stadium strategy from using iconic Wembley and it's 90,000 capacity to a more bespoke solution with the future use of the new stadium being built by Tottenham Hotspur. Spurs new stadium will have a capacity of nearly 62,000, a much easier number to achieve full sales of ticket and suite inventories. It also has a grass pitch that rolls out under the south stands and leaves an NFL surface several feet below the soccer pitch, which means all seats in the new stadium will have optimum views of each sport. At Wembley, like Rogers Centre, the slope in the lower bowl is so shallow that the first ten rows must be tarped over because fans seated there will not see the game clearly through the sideline traffic.
The result of all this careful planning and work is reflected in the increased coverage of the NFL in UK media and a much more comfortable attitude about a new sport coming into London.
By your logic, Still Kicking, none of this would have been contemplated, let alone acted upon.
Canary 10: The NFL is eyeing London for expansion as a beach head to starting a full division in Europe. The next site for NFL expansion after London will be Germany, where NFL Europe found its strongest response. I wouldn't be surprised to see two German franchises in future.
Where does all this leave Toronto? We're still some ways off having an adequate stadium to properly house a NFL team. But that could change if a bid to host the 2026 World Cup is made. A new, top-flight stadium would be needed here as an anchor stadium for the bid. The NFL would be the most likely sport to move into that stadium full time, but it could also become a very lucrative venue for soccer events in future.
The people needed to financially back the purchase of a NFL franchise are here. In abundance.
The corporate support needed to make such a franchise prosper is here. In abundance.
The ability of a growing, diverse city that, with a new franchise, can make the league more marketable - sexier, if you will - to new audiences and new sponsors is here. In abundance. We piss all over San Antone or Oklahoma in that regard.
Fan interest in the NFL is here. In abundance. Not sure? Just talk to any high school or university aged male, where a vast number are currently participating in fantasy leagues. In Toronto high schools, you'll find massive interest in the NFL, soccer and the Jays. You'd be looked at as a potential 40-year-old virgin for wearing CFL gear.
The NFL is doing great without Toronto. Or London, for that matter. And we haven't even brought expansion to Mexico City, the biggest city in North America, into the equation.
But the NFL didn't get great by standing still. The league's owners are smart, rich people. They know what a good investment is and international expansion is just what the league needs right now to grow its game. Maybe it's just a matter of moving a couple of down-market teams like Jacksonville and New Orleans. Or even Buffalo, Detroit, Cincinnati or Cleveland if things don't brighten up in the rust belt.
Whatever way it works out, the Argos are on a very limited time frame in this city. Given the limp, whining response from their feeble fan support to moving into BMO Field, what would compel anyone to buy season's tickets for them ever again? When you can get in on a freebie or cheapie from a desperate scalper? You must be joking.
Fan interest in the NFL is here. In abundance.
Yeah, well they didn't put up when they had the chance with what the NFL cares about...money.
BTW, you notice how NFL ratings are down in the US this season....
You said something about fantasy?
Wow. I thought we had an NFL thread but a quick search came up with nought. Feel free to have a look or start one yourself. You're not the only fan of the NFL on here.
I see now how you're a bit bias to the CFL reality we live in with such a gleeful anticipation for an NFL team but it will not be affecting the Argos at BMO until an announcement that has no hint of coming soon, is made.
Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 10-07-2016 at 12:58 PM.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
http://www.cbc.ca/m/sports/soccer/ca...ndly-1.3795805
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Stadium was closed on purpose, as has been done by the Canadian MNT in Florida some time in the last 2 seasons when playing a Central American team.
And, oh look, another basketball focused sports dude doesn't give a shit about soccer - Paul McGaughey seems to be taking lessons from Bruce Arthur.
Why would you open the stadium for ticket sales, it would cost you way more staffing it than you would bring in. In the past, even than though technically it was closed door, Canadian fans found there way in after contacting the CSA. More or less got in as guests of the CSA.
Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!
Something about this particular category of international friendly defies simple explanation.
If there are no ticket sales, or no incremental ticket sales - there is no one in Marrakesh buying tickets to see Canada-Morocco, who wouldn't also come to see any one of 200 countries as the opponent, and what could ticket prices for Canada-Morocco be anyway, $10 or something?.... who is paying for this? The Moroccan soccer federation? Why would they bother, when there are 100 countries in Europe and Africa that would have cheaper airfares ?
Even considering the Europe based players, somebody still paid for 20 or 25 people, to fly from North America to play non revenue scrimmages.
Last edited by ensco; 10-07-2016 at 11:18 PM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
It's interesting to see how the NFL strategy for promoting itself in the UK is being lauded, without reference to the league executive who came up with the initial strategy of doing it, one of the truly under-rated sports executives, a certain Don Garber.
Man, I wish certain TSN presenters were as excited and eager to give away MLS tickets as they are Argos tickets every week. Another giveaway on Twitter ...
It shows you how bad it is getting for Argos.
I still like to know why Larry T wanted to buy Argos and does he seriously think Argos/CFL can survive in Toronto in the long term?
I can't believe I am saying this, but Rogers/Sportsnet seem to look good these days for not buying Argos and destroying Bell/TSN to become one number sports media outlet in Canada. Hopefully Rogers invest more into TFC/soccer since TSN is doing a shit job when comes to soccer.
Fans in Toronto were served up a bucket of shit and they didn't buy it. You make that sound like a bad thing.
We have an educated, nuanced NFL audience in Canada. Present the product to them properly and it will be bought. In abundance.
This isn't about being a fan. It's about business.
The CFL in Toronto is not business. It's not even charity any more. It's a pathetic, perpetual pity fuck.
It's only going to be worse next season when current season ticket holders keep their money in their wallets.
And for this, we had to see BMO Field butchered into a half-assed mish-mash of a stadium. Get the Argos out, get the north end rebuilt, turn this stadium into a fully focused home for soccer and get a properly productive, progressive and profitable program underway.
Do you have a problem with that?
Last edited by greatwhitenorf; 10-08-2016 at 12:29 PM.
NFL doesn't give two shits about education or nuance.
They want blind sheep with money. And they have them in the States. In abundance.
There's more then enough communities in the States where local pols and people are those sheep that they don't need to come here.
This town had its chance to show itself willing to spend the money and nod and smile and enjoy the spectacle. To its credit, it didn't.
Toronto showed it didn't really care about the NFL. In abundance.
And that's the reason why Toronto will not get an NFL franchise for at least another 30 years.
Last edited by OgtheDim; 10-08-2016 at 01:14 PM.
100% correct
Vegas is about to spend US$750M in public money to get the Raiders. The sponsor of that deal, Sheldon Adelman, is worth $30B.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/07/op...ore-ipad-share
I mean, why not? They have no better use for the money, the schools and hospitals in Nevada are just so great.
http://www.lasvegasnow.com/news/foru...hcare-rankings
Last edited by ensco; 10-08-2016 at 01:58 PM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
And in 30 years time, the North American version of football will pale in comparison to today - largely because it is inherently a sport that is a risk to your brain.
Greatwhitenorf has spewed the standard talking points of a NFL fan in Toronto with blinkers on. In regards to NFL Europe, by the league's final year, five of the six teams played in Germany and many came to regard the league as a giant USO show that mostly entertained the American military serving at German bases.
Og, The Post-Count Hunter:
Everything the NFL is doing in London is counter to what you are saying.
They are showing a healthy regard for their audience by moving their future NFL operations into a smaller, better-tailored stadium. The other thing to consider is that the exceedingly wealthy don't waste time fucking around with one another. That wastes too much money on lawyers.
In the case of the NFL, they don't go asking their brethren to waste valuable time, money and effort in endeavours that have no chance of succeeding.
Larry Tanenbaum, Jon Bon Jovi, et al, would not have been asked to waste time on the Buffalo bid if there wasn't something tangible coming down the pipe for them. They worked to get Terry Pegula's winning bid for Buffalo Bills up to an acceptable level. If you looked closely at the circumstance before the bid process, you had to know that the Toronto group had a microscopic chance of actually winning.
So what was in it for them? Some seriously decent future considerations is the answer. And that has to be why we're seeing the Argos being run into the ground.
The NFL hasn't come to Toronto for lack of desire. It's all about the optics and politics regarding the CFL.
Last edited by greatwhitenorf; 10-08-2016 at 02:24 PM.
NFL already has an enormous revenue line from Canada. There might not be much incremental revenue placing a team here. Unless one looks at the Jays and Raptors as examples of "Canadas team". The key is a free ( as in , paid larger for by gullible governments or partners ) stadium. If there is one, that might help grease the path.
so where is this free stadium? Well, CSA world cup bid, come on down. The Downsview right of first refusal for major sports stadium that MLSE has is a possible stadium partner path as well.
This thread has covered so much CFL ground outside the lines discussion but the CFL is the logical and pefect partner for the Cdn Prem league project and anything that these 2 groups can do to encourage investment into a NFL stadium or World Cup ( without massive govt subsidies ) would have my support. I have noticed many here have a soft spot in their hearts for Cdn pointy ball. I still believe that soccer here will grow at the pro level when cheap access to the stadia country wide is a thing.
Who knows and I don't see anything harmful came about from it. I love talking this but it belongs in the Canada section.
Some facts are Mauritania just played us in 2013 and couldn't host but has the largest pop of their people outside their nation in Marrekech. Morocco played Gabon today and they play later in the week in their CAF qualifiers. Tues is a great friendly date for them for some reason.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Vegas is a unique situation, but it does serve, to a small degree, to back up that argument.
Toronto isn't all that different. Plenty of people already are involved in a potential bid for the 2026 World Cup and a new anchor stadium for that bid has to be built in Toronto.
And that's where NFL interest begins to dovetail with a move into Toronto.
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