Argos to BMO decision - Wednesday, May 20th

[ag futbol]

Funny thing is that CFL commish is trying to get those kids who have no responsibility (like you put it) to follow CFL and he wants to use social media to get them hook up to CFL.

Not that I agree with everything you're writing in this thread but guess who uses social media with more frequency? Younger people and those under 35. Contrary to the beliefs our resident CFL commentator that group of twitter followers includes a portion of the population which has a lot of disposable income. What MLS found out a long time ago which the CFL hasn't is families make poor customers for sporting events. They are price sensitive, short of free time, change preferences frequently, and only spend a portion of the money on concessions and other ancillary items that someone at an earlier stage of life in their 20s or 30s would.

And don't get me started about people from Saskatchewan and Alberta moving to Mississauga. We can dig out the statistics if anyone even wants to bother, it will show demographics that scream soccer and probably to a lesser degree cricket. On top of that the economy out west is strong enough where people are staying put or if anything migrating to alberta. The with recent slowdown people still have enough confidence to stay put. These things take years and years to play out and there is no meaningful migration of people in these provinces to the GTA.

I moved to Calgary about a year ago for work and most people here would rather stick pins in their eyes than move to Toronto. The perception is you earn more money in oil and work less (on top of staying home). I concede that's cursory evidence based on personal experience but it's not a stretch to say the average westerner isn't very attracted by life in southern ontario.

[Fort York Redcoat]

MLSE exists to make money.

They can make more money with a multi-use facility. If they could make more money with a soccer only facility they would do that. They aren't doing that. They are making it multi-use.

They don't see what some of you (would like to) see. They see the Argos as a viable long term tenant and partner. The lease agreement at TFC Academy should have made that abundantly clear.

Argos aren't the enemy people. Your interests as supporters aren't aligned with the interests of the operators of this team. Surprising that this is surprising.

All of this is true but doesn't account for why this announcement hasn't happened yet. MLSE, TFC have an announcement to make and have no doubt calculated what the response will be and are trying to soften the blow of any negative PR a passionate and admitted small minority of a paying fan base will react to a step backwards in quality that will make them more boatloads of money.

This isn't surprising. To remain realistic is one thing. To remain quiet in the face of something one disagrees with is another. That is why we are seeing a page count nearing 70.

[Fort York Redcoat]

jus wondering...has ther been a decision on the argo move to bmo yet...or am i in the wrong thread again..

Yes. Agreed.

Please people

This is not an "Argos, are they relevant?" thread.

Let's try to keep on topic of the move.

[TravelPat]

I may be wrong - because that did happen once before - but my spidey sense is telling me a deal is probably already done and they will announce it sometime next week.

I think they are just waiting to get past this home opener with all the positive media attention it is bringing + coverage on ESPN2 before making the announcement because they want to avoid the potential embarrassment of any kind of Supporters group protest detracting from this 'celebration'. Trying to avoid a repeat of what we saw when supporters protested when TFC hosted the MLS all-star game.

A protest at a later game if they announce the Argos move next week is likely to gain much less media attention - which I'm sure is something MLSE has in mind after the All Star game experience.

[Jack]

Actually a lot of survey companies like Angus Reid Global due have their biases (especially when comes to doing polls on political parties). Also, this survey is too small of sample to take it seriously.

I stand by my comment and judge teams and their popularity based on social media where there's bigger sample and a lot people these days are on social media. Numbers on social media is real as it gets and isn't based on selected few people who do these surveys.

Lastly, this survey was based on leagues not teams. As we know, there's a lot of CFL fans in Toronto that come from other parts of Canada to work in Toronto but root their hometown teams when comes to sports. CFL is popular (especially in western Canada) so numbers don't necessary reflect on Argos popularity.

It is a small sample, to be sure, but enough to be statistically reliable according to their statisticians. If I'm putting money on something, I'll take the stats over anecdotal research in most cases.

[Pookie]

All of this is true but doesn't account for why this announcement hasn't happened yet. MLSE, TFC have an announcement to make and have no doubt calculated what the response will be and are trying to soften the blow of any negative PR a passionate and admitted small minority of a paying fan base will react to a step backwards in quality that will make them more boatloads of money.

This isn't surprising. To remain realistic is one thing. To remain quiet in the face of something one disagrees with is another. That is why we are seeing a page count nearing 70.

Again, I think they are holding off until the opener passes. My money is on next week as the Reds are on the road in New England over the long weekend. They can then hype up the Man City game on the 27th and "move on" from this story.


I base this on marketing/public relations 101. And I think there is merit to it as you consider this a potentially telling snippet coming from yesterday's Star:

What about the Argos?

What about them? The Argos-to-BMO rumours floating around Toronto the last few years have gained credence recently with reports MLSE chairman Larry Tanenbaum hoped to team up with Bell Media to buy the team from David Braley. And Leiweke mentioned that next winter’s renovations would make BMO a better prospective home for the CFL.

But when asked more about the Argos, Leiweke deflected attention.

“We’re putting everything off until Sunday. This is all about TFC.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/20...g-reality.html

[Fort York Redcoat]

Again, I think they are holding off until the opener passes. My money is on next week as the Reds are on the road in New England over the long weekend. They can then hype up the Man City game on the 27th and "move on" from this story.


I base this on marketing/public relations 101. And I think there is merit to it as you consider this a potentially telling snippet coming from yesterday's Star:

And I'm not disagreeing with that as a possible strategy they are taking but if it was just about money then they would have announced it as soon as the decision was made. There is more to this situation hence the cowardly timing.

[ensco]

Wild ass speculation dept: The CRTC yesterday came out with a huge decision Thursday on what carriers charge for roaming that was massively positive for all incumbents. They also blocked MVNOs... As the biggest operator in Canada (Rogers revenues in internet/mobility are 50% greater than Bell's), Rogers was by definition the biggest beneficiary....

http://www.thestar.com/business/2015...ion-geist.html

Maybe it's just a coincidence that Rogers may have caved on blocking the Argos at BMO in the last few days ....

[glaze]

I think we can all agree the Argos to BMO is happening.

But, while TL has been dodging that specific question leading up to the opener, he did have some strong language that we need to hold MLSE accountable for.

“At the end of the day, it's first, TFC. Second, TFC. Third, TFC, If you go to a TFC game, you won't notice a setup different than this.”
“There will be no logos anywhere on this field ever. If they want logos, they're going to have to work with the field turf in each of the end zones.”


I take that also as a promise that there will be no argos signage within the stadium, no ring of honour, etc.

[Pookie]

And I'm not disagreeing with that as a possible strategy they are taking but if it was just about money then they would have announced it as soon as the decision was made. There is more to this situation hence the cowardly timing.

Well, they were still trying to sell out the opener and need lots of good press to keep selling as many tickets as possible. Burying it over a long weekend with Man City on the way would likely be the best time of the year to drop this news.

As comedians say, it's all about the timing.

[Pookie]

I think we can all agree the Argos to BMO is happening.

But, while TL has been dodging that specific question leading up to the opener, he did have some strong language that we need to hold MLSE accountable for.

“At the end of the day, it's first, TFC. Second, TFC. Third, TFC, If you go to a TFC game, you won't notice a setup different than this.”
“There will be no logos anywhere on this field ever. If they want logos, they're going to have to work with the field turf in each of the end zones.”


I take that also as a promise that there will be no argos signage within the stadium, no ring of honour, etc.

Yep. That's what he said all right.

I'm going to put that in my note pad right under:

"The team we turn the quickest will be TFC and we'll turn them next year. Mark it down, write it down, film it … We're going to turn TFC around and we're going to make the playoffs next year"

and then my all time personal favorite while on the topic of turning around losing teams into playoff champions:

"The Leafs are close," Oct 29, 2013

[Blixa]

Holding MLSE accountable? You've got a sense of humour. This deal is done.

[brad]

I think we can all agree the Argos to BMO is happening.

But, while TL has been dodging that specific question leading up to the opener, he did have some strong language that we need to hold MLSE accountable for.

“At the end of the day, it's first, TFC. Second, TFC. Third, TFC, If you go to a TFC game, you won't notice a setup different than this.”
“There will be no logos anywhere on this field ever. If they want logos, they're going to have to work with the field turf in each of the end zones.”


I take that also as a promise that there will be no argos signage within the stadium, no ring of honour, etc.

How exactly do you plan to hold them accountable?

They blow hot air. They have done it since day one and they continue to do it.

You can vote with your wallet, but that is really about it.

[ensco]

How exactly do you plan to hold them accountable?

I gave them $20,000 the first 6 seasons. Maybe $100 a year the last two.

They get $100 a year from me until they prove that they care about TFC first and foremost. Which they don't.

It has always been a training ground for people with no skill or background. Right now it's also a vehicle to a real estate deal whose primary drivers are hockey games, Grey Cups and friendlies.

When the pitch sucks, the new guy "sell" the reality, whatever it needs to be, to the journalists who live and die by the access (such access to be immediately withdrawn if any of the above is pointed out).

[Fort York Redcoat]

Wild ass speculation dept: The CRTC yesterday came out with a huge decision Thursday on what carriers charge for roaming that was massively positive for all incumbents. They also blocked MVNOs... As the biggest operator in Canada (Rogers revenues in internet/mobility are 50% greater than Bell's), Rogers was by definition the biggest beneficiary....

http://www.thestar.com/business/2015...ion-geist.html

Maybe it's just a coincidence that Rogers may have caved on blocking the Argos at BMO in the last few days ....

So to indulge this W.A.S. - With this decision by the CRTC Rogers just got a go ahead to print their own money and cease to care about an Argos to BMO pissing contest?

(P.s. - Any reasoning behind this decision in timing is appreciated no matter how left field it seems. Thanks ensco)

[greatwhitenorf]

At the ribbon cutting event this week, a MLSE 'leader' talked about where the next project is for the company. A city-owned facility that they have taken 'operational and developmental control' of - Lamport.

[SoccMan2]

So I guess we will be starting a new thread soon then, " Argos to Lamport" lol.

[GabrielHurl]

At the ribbon cutting event this week, a MLSE 'leader' talked about where the next project is for the company. A city-owned facility that they have taken 'operational and developmental control' of - Lamport.

Its a joint TCHC/ MLSE project at 261 Jarvis Street

http://m.torontosun.com/2015/04/18/m...sports-complex

[flamehawk]

Michael Przybyłowski ‏@prizby 35m35 minutes ago
Tim Leiweke came all the way from his suite with 6 cops and 5 other MLSE employees to ask us to take down the #NoArgosAtBMO banner

[molenshtain]

Michael Przybyłowski ‏@prizby 35m35 minutes ago
Tim Leiweke came all the way from his suite with 6 cops and 5 other MLSE employees to ask us to take down the #NoArgosAtBMO banner

is it me or does it seem like censorship in the stands has increased under Leiweke?

[ensco]

So to indulge this W.A.S. - With this decision by the CRTC Rogers just got a go ahead to print their own money and cease to care about an Argos to BMO pissing contest?

(P.s. - Any reasoning behind this decision in timing is appreciated no matter how left field it seems. Thanks ensco)

To be more precise: why is Rogers agreeing to do something that only helps Bell? What changed? Reason has to be that someone induced them with something more valuable to them. So what was it?

Now imagine you are a politician/regulator who thinks the Argos/CFL should be saved, for whatever reason, but you know you cannot "use" public money to do it ... who knows? maybe you knew the regulator were going to give the incumbents what they wanted all along, but you want your pound of flesh ...

Could be just the product of my overfertile imagination, so I'm not looking to debate the merits. I just think it's interesting that this massive and favourable decision came down pretty much the same day that people start calling this deal done.

[Richard]

Michael Przybyłowski ‏@prizby 35m35 minutes ago
Tim Leiweke came all the way from his suite with 6 cops and 5 other MLSE employees to ask us to take down the #NoArgosAtBMO banner

[brad]

^^wow. Not surprising, but wow.

[Davenport]

I gave them $20,000 the first 6 seasons. Maybe $100 a year the last two.

They get $100 a year from me until they prove that they care about TFC first and foremost. Which they don't.

It has always been a training ground for people with no skill or background. Right now it's also a vehicle to a real estate deal whose primary drivers are hockey games, Grey Cups and friendlies.

When the pitch sucks, the new guy "sell" the reality, whatever it needs to be, to the journalists who live and die by the access (such access to be immediately withdrawn if any of the above is pointed out).

Quality post. I've never paid for a ticket and never will. Tossers !

[Areathrasher]

The responses and who is doing the responding to that tweet is way more interesting

[Rockerduck]

As a semi-supporter of Toronto FC, I'm not hardcore like you guys, I knew someone who had tickets in 127 and went to many games there. As I am aware of what happened in the early years of this franchise, more specifically the first three seasons. Anyways, I am going to put my two cents into this issue:

We have determined on some posts that I've read here that being a fan of the Argos/CFL and the Toronto FC (and Canada Soccer for that matter) are NOT mutually exclusive. Although a large number of CFL fans may want you to believe that, as I've always been curious on who watches the CFL, but I agree that this is a seperate issue.

Anyways, to get to the point, if the Argonauts are coming, which unfortunately looks like is going to be the reality. Even if the Argonauts aren't coming now, I honestly believe the government will try to force them. You can laugh at me all you want, but "Canadian Football" some will say is a very important thing to Canadian identity, (I personally disagree with this myself) if you don't believe me, take a good look in the middle of your passport, if you have the new style of passport. Political legislation to keep the Argonauts and CFL going have been used before when there have been threats of them possibly dying. For instance, in 1974, the short lived "World Football League" wanted to put a team in Toronto called the Toronto Northmen, and well, that scared the Canadian nationalists, so Trudeau's government introduced the Canadian Football Act which would make it illegal for foreign football (gridiron football of course) leagues to operate in Canada. This scared the Northmen, so they instead operated in Memphis called the Memphis Southmen.

That was over 40 years ago but it still props up today, while I honestly believe in the GTA that an overwhelming majority of Argonauts supporters are boomers, there has been political legislation involved with the CFL today. For instance, take a look at Bill S-238 which was proposed as "An act representing Canadian professional football" which seems to state that anyone caught playing American football in Toronto could go to jail for two years. Again, like the 1974 act, this went nowhere, but it shows you how serious they are about this. Sure, American gridiron is largely played in one sport as well, but that's the version of gridiron known to most of the world. There are collegiate gridiron leagues in Britain for instance now. Can you imagine if for whatever reason, a version of baseball was developed in Canada which had 2 bases with a basepath in the shape of a triangle rather than a diamond, as well as an AT BAT having 2 strikes and 3 balls instead. Can you imagine, one country in the world playing this game and every other country in the world playing the other version we all know.

As for Toronto FC, since the brass there has decided to play hardball, I now suggest that like in 2008, you decide to play hardball back. For instance, like at the 2008 MLS All Star game, wear black to all games, and refuse to stand and cheer. We can keep a much better game in the "National Soccer Stadium" than a form of gridiron played in just one country by a small population. I recall one match in 127 where the fans chose to get up and leave after kick-off, I can't remember what for, but I do remember it happening. If they do not care about the supporters, the people who passionately go to games and keep a great atmosphere for everyone, it will be a net loss to everyone, and MLSE needs to understand by making BMO Field feel like a public library instead.

[Pookie]

Michael Przybyłowski ‏@prizby 35m35 minutes ago
Tim Leiweke came all the way from his suite with 6 cops and 5 other MLSE employees to ask us to take down the #NoArgosAtBMO banner

Would love to get the story on what was said.

Anyone else shaking their heads when Leiweke called BMO "now the largest soccer specific stadium in MLS"?

Yeah, for 16 more games it will be. Then it will be one of the smaller multi-use MLS stadiums behind Vancouver, Seattle and New England.

[ensco]

^They play a couple more games like that, BMO will look like Arrowhead and RFK.

[Pookie]

^ I was a little shocked that they didn't sell out the home opener. I expect empty seats through the season but not for the home opener with a new stadium smell to it.

(did they announce it as a sell out?)

[TFC07]

^ I was a little shocked that they didn't sell out the home opener. I expect empty seats through the season but not for the home opener with a new stadium smell to it.

(did they announce it as a sell out?)

Game was announce as 30K (which is consider a sell out), but there was empty seats (mostly in upper east stand) though. I personally think threat of rain/thunder storm scare some people not to show up for this game.