Argos to BMO decision - Wednesday, May 20th

[Still Kicking]

The Argos will always be on my radar.

I think that the shallow thinking of corporate North American sports franchising is worth fighting against. I feel those fans who accept the "sports team buffet " approach of MLSE (or Rogers and Bell) continue to sell themselves and their communities short. I look at the mega monopolies seasonal samba "hey it's fall, time to cheer for your remote, MEGA hockey team or hey, it's spring, time to cheer for your MEGA baseball team" as a point of dispute.

To me, soccer (and to some extent, basketball) are an opportunity to support global sports with true local roots of participation, knowledge and interest. My argument is against monopoly. Madrid has three top division La Liga teams AND two top division basketball teams. I know, a different culture and a different history - but time and time again there have been opportunities to move sports in Canada towards community based - and I argue that the Toronto story has been accepting both the NHL and the CFL long putting the buck ahead of the sport or the fan. I want Toronto F.C. to be different - I want to see somebody lay a foundation for the sport I love that could go beyond the one team in every city template that benefits only the already wealthy.

Hockey turned it's back on local teams and rivalries and has spent decades now with a strong preference for US markets and money. CFL could have gone local (could Oshawa support a team? could Mississauga? London? I do not mindlessly bash Canadian football - I attended my second Guelph Gryphons of the year this past weekend - could Guelph support a CFL team?)- but have instead turned the Argos into a team of isolation, neglect - the nation's sinking ship.
At that season seat holder event at Queen Elizabeth theatre years ago - I challenged Tim L. - I could not and still do not understand how getting into bed with the Argos helps soccer in Ontario. The fight over the Argos is more than signs at the stadium and conditions of the pitch. What makes the monopoly happy does nothing for me. The "I cheer for every Toronto team" argument is too reactionary for me to celebrate.

Want to guess at my reaction to those who say close this thread?

[ensco]

Exactly this in bolded......Serie A viewership to live attendance is a very poor example in comparison to the Argos' current situation at BMO....
Ironically, the Serie A example would be a good comparison to the Argos' situation as it was at Rogers Centre......

The reasons aren't the point. There are all kinds of "reasons" why attendance isn't relevance, but TV ratings are. The NFL has been the number two sport in Los Angeles for twenty years, with no local team.

[KurtLarSUN]

I don't understand this argument.

Let's say you are right. Even if it is only the Timmins/Thunder Bay corridor providing the ratings bounces, isn't the argument here that soccer is more popular?

If so, why does TFC, Vancouver and Montreal have such difficulty in expanding beyond a niche property in the TV game? They are on TSN like the CFL. If all Argos ratings are influenced by fans in other cities then either the team or league (or both) have expanded interest, sustained interest beyond being a local favourite to the magnitude of at least 5x local. (500k vs 100k in your hypothesis).

I also don't get what bashing the CFL has to do with BMO. It's not like the Argos Clause wasn't important in getting the original deal done. It's not like the City, who own BMO, don't want them there. It's not like they didn't pay $10m to be a part here. It's not like they didn't sign a long term lease with MLSE. It's not like MLSE intends to rebuild the north stand to prevent CFL football (ie Grey Cups) from ever being played there. It's not like they don't finally have solid ownership with deep pockets and a long term view.

It's also not like TSN, who need properties to compete with the ratings the Jays get on sportsnet is in any way interested in not supporting the viability of content that draws hundreds of thousands weekly.

Do any of those signs point to this being a one (season) and done financial arrangement?

Argos have less fans in the stands. Well technically more than we typically get for concacaf but I guess all the soccer mad folks are on vacation those days. Argos lose the attendance count. Got it.

Does that change anything?

A few things here...

The CFL is a Canadian league. That's why TV numbers are decent. It doesn't matter if people in Toronto don't care about the Argos. The CFL has legitimate fanbases in Hamilton, Ottawa, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Calgary and Regina to prop up sagging interest in the Greater Toronto Area. It likely has nothing to do with the CFL expanding interest and everything to do with the fact there are teams in every big market.

It's not dissimilar to what Major League Soccer is doing in the U.S. Look at MLS TV numbers. They're terrible. But, put another team in L.A., a team in Minnesota, a team in Atlanta etc. And suddenly you're going to see TV numbers rise over the next five years simply because there are more cities with skin in the game.

As for your TSN take, the problem is that the network doesn't see value in MLS right now, so they aren't investing. The fact they don't even have a 30-minute pre-game show before matches shows you they don't care to expand interest in the product. I find it strange. Not sure how you can expect a league that's less than a decade old in this country to suddenly be as popular as the CFL. I know people who work at TSN. There is literally NO interest in trying to promote soccer in a meaningful way. They live in the present, not in the future ...

[SoccMan2]

What does Concacaf Championship attendance have to do with it all, in the end if TFC is getting over 26000 a game on average for regular games 17 times of the year it's better than 17000 for only 9 home games. You know why a lot of us are breaking Argo balls on here it's because of how they predicted attendance problems would be solved with the move to BMO and they made sound like in the first season they would already see a huge improvement even stating that they would average over 25000 a game in the first year. We also break balls for the way the previous Argo owners bailed on the CSA during the York stadium fiasco leaving the CSA high and dry, moreover, why didn't the Argos go to the city to try and get a BMO Field built, instead it was MLSE going to the city and getting BMO Field built for TFC and the CSA, with the city having to save Argo butts and putting that Argo clause in there. Moreover, just the way TSN gives so much media attention to the Argos and basically throws TFC around wherever they can put them, never really trying to build TFC on TV, and of course the soccer haters out there who thought TFC would fail and many were Argo fans , these are some of the reasons we love to break Argo balls!

[KurtLarSUN]

And MILLIONS!! surely watching some of the most carefully composed and crafted camera shots ever created for a sports event.

Looking at all them empty seats. Knowing most of the occupied ones are comped. Yeah, that Argos thing is really working. Like an outhouse.

How many people at that game were wearing black?

[Still Kicking]

The reasons aren't the point. There are all kinds of "reasons" why attendance isn't relevance, but TV ratings are. The NFL has been the number two sport in Los Angeles for twenty years, with no local team.

Oh boy, using LA football as an argument that tv ratings are more important than attendance is a wrong step imho.
I have relatives in LA and visit there annually. Point #1 participation levels - I would love to see stats showing how many NFL players played high school and/or college ball in Southern California. It has been a football/basketball hotbed of talent development for decades. Point#2 The Trojans and the Bruins, college football in the LA has a huge profile in local media, national media, attendance and interest, they took advantage of the lack of NFL to market their teams - especially the USC Trojans. Point#3 a little misleading to say NO NFL team, some follow the Chargers as their team (just down the freeway) and a ton of Los Angelenos still consider the Raiders as THEIR team.

You could write books about the strange case of the NFL not having a team in LA. It was political, it was financial, it was a reflection of the NFL being run by billionaires who seldom look at "what's good for the game" and loved having LA vacant because it always meant they had leverage over their city for any stadium renewal. Tough to call it a strict high tv ratings, zero attendance scenario.

[Pookie]

Does our better attendance do anything?

Do you enjoy playing dumb?

The argument "here" is varying. You want to argue with someone - quote them and stick to their view alone instead of lumping other peoples views into the quoted.

The argument "here" isn't that soccer is the more popular global game, deserving of its own stadium?

I believe I quoted him and addressed his tv ratings issue.

I supposed I could have quoted another guy who won't answer the why it's not working questions but instead chooses to use conversations on his street as the litmus test as to popularity. Sky is falling on the CFL apparently. Which again, has no bearing on the ground share, the business deal behind or the history of our city own and taxpayer funded rental.

I will be sure to use the multi quote feature going forward.

[Pookie]

A few things here...

The CFL is a Canadian league. That's why TV numbers are decent. It doesn't matter if people in Toronto don't care about the Argos. The CFL has legitimate fanbases in Hamilton, Ottawa, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Calgary and Regina to prop up sagging interest in the Greater Toronto Area. It likely has nothing to do with the CFL expanding interest and everything to do with the fact there are teams in every big market.

It's not dissimilar to what Major League Soccer is doing in the U.S. Look at MLS TV numbers. They're terrible. But, put another team in L.A., a team in Minnesota, a team in Atlanta etc. And suddenly you're going to see TV numbers rise over the next five years simply because there are more cities with skin in the game.

As for your TSN take, the problem is that the network doesn't see value in MLS right now, so they aren't investing. The fact they don't even have a 30-minute pre-game show before matches shows you they don't care to expand interest in the product. I find it strange. Not sure how you can expect a league that's less than a decade old in this country to suddenly be as popular as the CFL. I know people who work at TSN. There is literally NO interest in trying to promote soccer in a meaningful way. They live in the present, not in the future ...

All valid Kurt. I don't expect MLS to be as popular as the CFL.

But it's a rabbit hole. If the debate is around "Argos at BMO", the popularity of the CFL or even Argos in Toronto won't change the business deal that brought them here.

I could reiterate:

- Argos Clause in the original deal
- City wants them there
- City owns BMO
- MLSE signed a long term lease with the Argos
- Argos have stable, financially deep pocketed owners
- CFL has a $40m per year TV deal that the network believes requires Ontario participation (which means no shortage of desire to prop them up as they struggle.. See recent Grey Cuo awards to help finance the stadium move)
- Argos financed their $10m share
- stadium isn't going to concrete to prevent Grey Cup.

Popularity is a side discussion. Is there anything in the above that highlights that this ground share will be temporary? Those looking for the demise of the Argos or CFL in Southern Ontario as the only exit strategy are going to be looking for a long time.

(All the while 902k will be looking at two southern Ontario teams playing on labour day)

A more fruitful approach would be to pressure MLSE to move out of BMO and into its own stadium that it actually owns. Soccer specific and as glorious as you want it to be. But again, the long term management agreement with the City may hinder that and are they really prepared to take the risk?

Given they poured more money into renovating and then seeking to sublet the space, I think we have our answer.

[KurtLarSUN]

All valid Kurt. I don't expect MLS to be as popular as the CFL.

But it's a rabbit hole. If the debate is around "Argos at BMO", the popularity of the CFL or even Argos in Toronto won't change the business deal that brought them here.

I could reiterate:

- Argos Clause in the original deal
- City wants them there
- City owns BMO
- MLSE signed a long term lease with the Argos
- Argos have stable, financially deep pocketed owners
- CFL has a $40m per year TV deal that the network believes requires Ontario participation (which means no shortage of desire to prop them up as they struggle.. See recent Grey Cuo awards to help finance the stadium move)
- Argos financed their $10m share
- stadium isn't going to concrete to prevent Grey Cup.

Popularity is a side discussion. Is there anything in the above that highlights that this ground share will be temporary? Those looking for the demise of the Argos or CFL in Southern Ontario as the only exit strategy are going to be looking for a long time.

A more fruitful approach would be to pressure MLSE to move out of BMO and into its own stadium that it actually owns. Soccer specific and as glorious as you want it to be. But again, the long term management agreement with the City may hinder that and are they really prepared to take the risk?

Given they poured more money into renovating and then seeking to sublet the space, I think we have our answer.

I actually wrote a column three years ago about the possibility of MLSE handing BMO over to the CFL and building its own soccer-only stadium. Of course, now that's not on the table, at least not for another 15-20 years.
This discussion board has been all over the place. People need to realize the Argos aren't going anywhere. But I think sagging (almost embarrassing) Argos attendance is vindicating Toronto FC fans, who are looking for undeniable examples of why MLS is slowly on the rise and the CFL, in this city, will eventually run its course.
While I see the Argos being around for a long time, I just can't see how they rebound in a market that's full of youth soccer players and is only hungry for major leagues.
Where will the Argos be in 30 years?

[SoccMan2]

In the end the Argos are still having attendance problems at BMO Field and it's so bad that the station that owns them and hypes them up everyday is to embarrassed to show the stands keeping the camera low to the ground lol, TFC is doing rather fine attendance wise at BMO more or less always has which is incredible considering what a train wreck TFC have been on the field since 2007. The Argos on the Field have won championships and have had good runs since 2007, but still with all that on field success and big TV ratings are still struggling in attendance. I know that that bothers Argo and soccer haters but them the facts so live with it, I love it and this from me a long suffering pro soccer fan of all Toronto pro soccer teams since the early 70's yes I'm an old fart but finally I can go to a pro soccer game in Toronto to a mainly sold out stadium oh life is good, moreover the Argos are still struggling in attendance lol.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I supposed I could have quoted another guy who won't answer the why it's not working questions but instead chooses to use conversations on his street as the litmus test as to popularity. Sky is falling on the CFL apparently. Which again, has no bearing on the ground share, the business deal behind or the history of our city own and taxpayer funded rental.

I will be sure to use the multi quote feature going forward.

Thank you.

[Fort York Redcoat]

In the end ...

You know that using that doesn't ACTUALLY end the thread or discussion, right? You've used it more than once. Just sayin'

[Fort York Redcoat]

Soccer specific and as glorious as you want it to be.

Soccer specific was glorious enough.

[paul-collins]

A more fruitful approach would be to pressure MLSE to move out of BMO and into its own stadium that it actually owns. Soccer specific and as glorious as you want it to be. But again, the long term management agreement with the City may hinder that and are they really prepared to take the risk?

Given they poured more money into renovating and then seeking to sublet the space, I think we have our answer.

You're all over the "City must maximize the use of the publicly funded stadium" and yet you say MLSE should build their own stadium? Why on earth would the City want that?

TFC are providing 20 or more high-revenue dates for the venue, and adding cachet to the stadium that probably makes it more valuable to the casual rental. If they were to go, I would imagine CSA would go also. And other soccer rentals. You'd be left with 9 CFL dates, occasional rugby friendlies, and ... ?

Does the City get anything for the 902k TSN viewers? If not, why should that factor into the City's perception of the success of the venue share?

Finally, did MLSE really seek to sublet, or was it Argos ownership and city council pushing to exercise the "Argos Clause"?

[Canary10]

^ I think David Miller closed off the Argos to BMO situation while he was in the mayor's chair. As well all know, he's a big TFC supporter and, as I understand, wanted BMO to remain soccer specific. The current mayor (or the last one) I think really wanted the deal done.

[Fort York Redcoat]

You're all over the "City must maximize the use of the publicly funded stadium" and yet you say MLSE should build their own stadium? Why on earth would the City want that?

TFC are providing 20 or more high-revenue dates for the venue, and adding cachet to the stadium that probably makes it more valuable to the casual rental. If they were to go, I would imagine CSA would go also. And other soccer rentals. You'd be left with 9 CFL dates, occasional rugby friendlies, and ... ?

Does the City get anything for the 902k TSN viewers? If not, why should that factor into the City's perception of the success of the venue share?

Finally, did MLSE really seek to sublet, or was it Argos ownership and city council pushing to exercise the "Argos Clause"?

Before Pook gets to this I'll just say that the Wolfpack is supposed to be ready for bigtime sooner than later.

Put down turf and its concert time because multi multi multi use. No footy peeps complaining if we had a an SSS.

[OgtheDim]

Before Pook gets to this I'll just say that the Wolfpack is supposed to be ready for bigtime sooner than later.
...

I'll believe that when I see it. Rugby League is an acquired taste, and this is coming from somebody who has that code in his blood.

[jabbronies]

Y

Finally, did MLSE really seek to sublet, or was it Argos ownership and city council pushing to exercise the "Argos Clause"?

I think MLSE was forced to have the Argos sublet - under MLSE's terms.

There are a couple loud mouth city councillors who wanted the Argos to go to BMO - I could only assume they have some sort of financial gain for the Argos to succeed.

[Onyx]

A few things here...

The CFL is a Canadian league. That's why TV numbers are decent. It doesn't matter if people in Toronto don't care about the Argos. The CFL has legitimate fanbases in Hamilton, Ottawa, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Calgary and Regina to prop up sagging interest in the Greater Toronto Area. It likely has nothing to do with the CFL expanding interest and everything to do with the fact there are teams in every big market.

It's not dissimilar to what Major League Soccer is doing in the U.S. Look at MLS TV numbers. They're terrible. But, put another team in L.A., a team in Minnesota, a team in Atlanta etc. And suddenly you're going to see TV numbers rise over the next five years simply because there are more cities with skin in the game.

As for your TSN take, the problem is that the network doesn't see value in MLS right now, so they aren't investing. The fact they don't even have a 30-minute pre-game show before matches shows you they don't care to expand interest in the product. I find it strange. Not sure how you can expect a league that's less than a decade old in this country to suddenly be as popular as the CFL. I know people who work at TSN. There is literally NO interest in trying to promote soccer in a meaningful way. They live in the present, not in the future ...

I've worked in the industry for years. the vast majority of people watching any sporting event is from the markets involved 90%+. People don't care about ticats or argos games outside ontario. You have to have a vested interest to watch for 2-3 hours. Not saying their are general fans watching outside the markets involved but this is a very small number (10%). if anything the out of market viewers are in the reach #s (2.9m) not the average # (902k).

TSN/SN don't give a shit about MLS now. They are losing money producing it. And are basically obligated to put the games on this is especially true for SN. I have no idea how MLS is going to convince TSN to re-up. Of course, this doesn't impact TFC due to media ownership except they might forced to put the games on alternative station MLSE owns.

[OgtheDim]

the vast majority of people watching any sporting event is from the markets involved 90%+. People don't care about ticats or argos games outside ontario....

Ur wrong on this one. CFL numbers are huge out West outside of where the teams are from.

[105]

The CFL thrives in small town Canada where entertainment options are a lot fewer. If you look at the problem franchises, or the ones with attendance problems, they are the ones in the big cities of Canada - Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver. I bet if these 3 teams moved to Oshawa/Quebec City/Surrey attendance would be better because there's no other competition.

As long as people around the country are watching on TV and Bell can make money off it, these big city franchises will be propped up (Toronto especially), even if they are losing money. The problem for the CFL is, if the ratings dip and Bell/Rogers aren't willing to pay big money for rights anymore, exactly what is left? They have attendance issues in half the league, most of the franchises are worth very little (Argos are literally worth nothing), and many of the stadiums are rentals and/or old.

I like Football, it isn't my favourite sport, but I watch it (NFL). I'm not a fan of the CFL because it's small time. Not just in terms of the quality of the players, but it's a 9 team league. Winning a championship in a 9 team league where 6 teams make the playoffs, just seems like a waste of time to me. Winning a title isn't that difficult or a great achievement when a league is that small.

[mistercorporate]

I've worked in the industry for years. the vast majority of people watching any sporting event is from the markets involved 90%+. People don't care about ticats or argos games outside ontario. You have to have a vested interest to watch for 2-3 hours. Not saying their are general fans watching outside the markets involved but this is a very small number (10%). if anything the out of market viewers are in the reach #s (2.9m) not the average # (902k).

TSN/SN don't give a shit about MLS now. They are losing money producing it. And are basically obligated to put the games on this is especially true for SN. I have no idea how MLS is going to convince TSN to re-up. Of course, this doesn't impact TFC due to media ownership except they might forced to put the games on alternative station MLSE owns.

Definitely wrong on this one. Google trends show there are more searches for the Toronto Argos from Regina alone than all of Toronto lol. Manitoba has more than Toronto too last time I saw the stats.

[105]

I've worked in the industry for years. the vast majority of people watching any sporting event is from the markets involved 90%+. People don't care about ticats or argos games outside ontario. You have to have a vested interest to watch for 2-3 hours. Not saying their are general fans watching outside the markets involved but this is a very small number (10%). if anything the out of market viewers are in the reach #s (2.9m) not the average # (902k).

TSN/SN don't give a shit about MLS now. They are losing money producing it. And are basically obligated to put the games on this is especially true for SN. I have no idea how MLS is going to convince TSN to re-up. Of course, this doesn't impact TFC due to media ownership except they might forced to put the games on alternative station MLSE owns.

I don't doubt that many people in Northern Ontario are watching the Argos on TV. But their presence in the 416 is almost nill, otherwise more than 17K would be going to games 9 times a year.

[Wagner]

Incredible.
The Argos called me again, same rep that called in the spring.

I was an Argos SSH in 2005.
they called me in 2016 to see if I was interested in Season tix.
then today, despite me telling him I was not interested in the CFL, he called today seeing if I am interested in Grey Cup tix.

[105]

Grey Cup ticket prices are insane. I bought a flex pack for the Jays this year and they had a pre-sale for playoff tickets and World Series tickets were less expensive than the Grey Cup game.

[Pookie]

You're all over the "City must maximize the use of the publicly funded stadium" and yet you say MLSE should build their own stadium? Why on earth would the City want that?

I'm not sure that the city wants them to move. A decision to move would be based on MLSE's commitment to soccer and the belief that they can make an investment (with no public funds) in their own success.

City clearly benefits by keeping its renters. But even if TFC left and the Argos folded, it's a pretty valuable piece of property. Maybe the Casino talks heat up. Maybe a convention center, maybe a theme park, maybe a hovercraft docking station.. who knows. Point is that they can make revenue off the land regardless of how it is used.

Does the City get anything for the 902k TSN viewers? If not, why should that factor into the City's perception of the success of the venue share?

The viewers are inconsequential to the City. All it does is suggest that the renters can pay their rent, which given some of the guarantees MLSE has promised the City, is really low risk. The 902k virtually assures that the CFL itself and/or TSN will do what it can to protect this piece of content. We already saw this with the Argos getting a disproportionate share of Grey Cups around the time of the BMO deal.

I believe earlier in this thread and months if not a year ago, I suggested this would be a likely outcome. Argos needed $10M to cover their share in the Argos Clause and low and behold, we have multiple $10M gifts in the form of Grey Cups. Deal goes ahead.

Finally, did MLSE really seek to sublet, or was it Argos ownership and city council pushing to exercise the "Argos Clause"?

I believe it to be the former. Rumours of MLSE's interest in actually buying the Argos along with public comments by Leiweke about Grey Cups and other MLSE Execs about how a ground share could work suggest there was tire kicking going on. Regardless, I believe that as part of the expansion, MLSE upped its guarantee to the City which means that it is financially committed to providing more for the same use (someone may have the details). If they simply kept it for TFC, that would be pure profit being given back.

Makes sense then that they would look for additional dates/events to up their revenues and maximize their profit.

As an aside, there was an interesting article be Stephen Brunt years ago that outlined that the Argos were out maneuvered by MLSE at BMO as part of their NFL dreams. The gist was that clearly, the groups had been talking about joint stadium and various deals fell through. While the Argos were in flux, MLSE closed the door on BMO by rushing through plans that had concrete end zones.

That move would force a financially unstable team to have to pay for renovations and if they couldn't, would open the door to NFL dreams. I think when those NFL dreams died, we started to hear more about MLSE's interest in the Argos. Here's the article if you are interested:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1111476/

[KurtLarSUN]

I've worked in the industry for years. the vast majority of people watching any sporting event is from the markets involved 90%+. People don't care about ticats or argos games outside ontario. You have to have a vested interest to watch for 2-3 hours. Not saying their are general fans watching outside the markets involved but this is a very small number (10%). if anything the out of market viewers are in the reach #s (2.9m) not the average # (902k).

TSN/SN don't give a shit about MLS now. They are losing money producing it. And are basically obligated to put the games on this is especially true for SN. I have no idea how MLS is going to convince TSN to re-up. Of course, this doesn't impact TFC due to media ownership except they might forced to put the games on alternative station MLSE owns.

I have nothing against the CFL. But I find it odd that nobody ever releases city-specific numbers. This is common practice in the States.

I find it extremely hard to believe that of the 2.9 million that game reached, 2.61 million (90%) were in the GTA.

[redcard]

I'll believe that when I see it. Rugby League is an acquired taste, and this is coming from somebody who has that code in his blood.

well when i picked up a couple of Seasons for the Wolfpack, they informed me that they are looking to move into BMO Field in the next couple of years...without me even bringing it up...also i did pose the question a while back how many tenants will be using BMO Field...

[OgtheDim]

Adding 16 dates to BMO is not going to be easy. Frankly as a TFC supporter, I'd be worried about a ground share with RL being added to the Argo thing. RL goes March to late September. I don't think the field can handle that.

BTW, the Wolfpack may talk about it but they would - its a marketing tool to say "See, were are serious." in a city that only takes top level sports seriously.

[Pookie]

I have nothing against the CFL. But I find it odd that nobody ever releases city-specific numbers. This is common practice in the States.

I find it extremely hard to believe that of the 2.9 million that game reached, 2.61 million (90%) were in the GTA.

Is it common practice in Canada? Honestly don't know. Are Leaf games viewed in the west? If TFC played Vancouver, how many from each city? Does anyone outside those markets care?

I think the bigger story isn't that 2.9m tuned in or the 902k ratings, it's that it was up 60% over last year.

Same teams. Same Labour Day. Same channel.

What's behind the spike? Is this due to the Argos actually advertising? Is this a function of curious eyes brought as s result of the new stadium? Or is it unrelated entirely to those factors?