TFC in talks with Garth Lagerway about president's job

[Pookie]

The point is to have someone who is in charge of the overall vision of the club. May support what the coach / GM want done, but isn't primarily a GM. It's basically exactly what Bobby L. does in Vancouver. It's Tom Anselmi with a brain.

It's about governance and vision, which has been a huge issue at TFC since day one.

Coaches and GMs are transient, a vision should not be.

I hear you but I don't know if it fits this MLSE structure.

In Lagerway you have a great GM. Not much experience in governance and vision. It may well be needed. It would be a learn on the job presidential role though.

Even if he is great for the role consider this. They had that in Kevin Payne. Right or wrong vision, he was ultimately fired when his vision didn't jive with Tim L and/or the Board.

So whose vision will it be? Larry T's? Leiweke's replacement? Lagerway?

TFC would probably be more functional without a President and just let the GM (Lagerway would be a great choice) go directly to the Board if they needed something outside of the approved budget. The vision, considering all the funds invested in stadium expansion and MLSE's history, is likely to come from the next MLSE President, IMO

[jabbronies]

So if Lagerway is this bigshot - why are RSL letting him go?

[Pookie]

I fought this idea for years (decades) but I now believe it to be true: organizations take on the personality of their leader.

The leaders of MLSE do not have winning personalities, they are managers, not leaders. So, the teams need leadership. Sure, it seems ceremonial (and it can be, so far Shanahan is no Yzerman, but I suppose we knew that going in) but with the right person in the position it can have a real effect.

When TFC started I hoped they would bring in an elder statesman, so to speak, someone with a lifetime of experience to act as an advisor - even someone pulled out of retirement on a pat-time basis. Maybe something like the position Wayne Embry has with the Raptors. But they didn't do that and we've had years of people trying to learn on the job with little to no guidance.

Sort of a "Culture eats strategy for breakfast" philosophy?

I'd buy that.

Within this culture though, does a TFC specific leader make a difference? Thus far it hasn't with the Leafs. From Dryden to Burke to Shanahan. All still reported to someone who then reported to a Board.

If the TFC President decided to go grass roots in terms of marketing and slash ticket prices, could they in light of all the money on stadium expansion?

If they didn't like the retirement program of signing known veterans and instead went for unknown talent, would they be able to?

This president will have a boss in Tim L's replacement. TFC's president will likely have to implement the corporate strategy that the board will give to the person they hire to replace Lieweke.

Not sure how much influence a TFC president will have given that structure.

[Yohan]

So if Lagerway is this bigshot - why are RSL letting him go?

RSL isn't letting Lagerwey go and they are doing their best to tie him to a new contract. They just can't afford to pay him the big bucks, or give him the resources of a big MLS team like Galaxy, NYCFC or Toronto. He probably wants a new challenge too

[Yohan]

Sort of a "Culture eats strategy for breakfast" philosophy?

I'd buy that.

Within this culture though, does a TFC specific leader make a difference? Thus far it hasn't with the Leafs. From Dryden to Burke to Shanahan. All still reported to someone who then reported to a Board.

If the TFC President decided to go grass roots in terms of marketing and slash ticket prices, could they in light of all the money on stadium expansion?

If they didn't like the retirement program of signing known veterans and instead went for unknown talent, would they be able to?

This president will have a boss in Tim L's replacement. TFC's president will likely have to implement the corporate strategy that the board will give to the person they hire to replace Lieweke.

Not sure how much influence a TFC president will have given that structure.

if you look at Ujiri with Raps, it looks like MLSE has a laissez faire attitude, as long as you can sell a vision and deliver success

[speckles]

Lagerwey said in March he would like to be a President. Vanney is his guy. Bez fires Nelsen at the first pretext and replaces him with Lagerwey's guy, Vanney. Only conclusion possible: This has been planned for months. Bez is part of it, Lagerwey will be here, Vanney will stay. It's all probably good if Vanney is as competent as his interviews make him sound (although won't be if he is as incompetent as his results on the field show). Feel bad for Nelsen though, out manoeuvred here for sure.

True but don't worry about Nelsens he is ok, he will soon be part of the management of a National side..all just coming together now.

[Pookie]

if you look at Ujiri with Raps, it looks like MLSE has a laissez faire attitude, as long as you can sell a vision and deliver success

Perhaps. But the Raps don't have a $90M construction project on the go or a payroll budget that is about triple their previous high. Both were significant Board decisions.

Given that, I really don't think it is unreasonable to think that TFC's Senior leadership will be getting direction, on a fairly consistent basis, from the new MLSE President who will take his/her direction from the Board.

[Oldtimer]

So if Lagerway is this bigshot - why are RSL letting him go?

They, aren't, MLSE has one of these:

It's Tom Anselmi with a brain.

...a little harsh, I'd rephrase it "Tom Anselmi with a brain for sports management." He's fine as a condo developer.

Lagerwey said in March he would like to be a President. Vanney is his guy. Bez fires Nelsen at the first pretext and replaces him with Lagerwey's guy, Vanney. Only conclusion possible: This has been planned for months. Bez is part of it, Lagerwey will be here, Vanney will stay. It's all probably good if Vanney is as competent as his interviews make him sound (although won't be if he is as incompetent as his results on the field show).

This is my read as well. Bez and Vanney are both Largerway guys. This has been planned IMO ever since Tim L said he was leaving.

For once, we may have a transition without the usual change of vision and bloodletting. Vanney's possession-based style is exactly how RSL plays. Bez's strengths aren't in vision, they are in managing contracts and cap-space, and dealing with other GM's (he knows everybody through his previous MLS FO job). The three can work very well together.

The only weak point is that will MLSE's new head honcho may prefer someone else, but if the whole setup actually works they will probably leave it alone. After all, no one will want to mess up the management team that finally gets TFC into the playoffs, any more than they would want to shake up the Raptors at this point in time.

[Brooker]

Another new face who will be gone within 2 years? Quelle surprise.

[ManUtd4ever]

If Lagerwey is hired as President, I think he will be the defacto GM and the true architect behind the scenes, and Bez will perform a similar role as he did with Leiweke. Bez can still provide valuable expertise as a capologist.

[Yohan]

If Lagerwey is hired as President, I think he will be the defacto GM and the true architect behind the scenes, and Bez will perform a similar role as he did with Leiweke. Bez can still provide valuable expertise as a capologist.

maybe. but Tim B was de facto TFC president for a while now. once you have tasted the power, it's hard to give it up without feeling jilted. being merely a capologist will feel like a demotion to him. team president is not the GM

[gdg_9]

...
This is my read as well. Bez and Vanney are both Largerway guys. This has been planned IMO ever since Tim L said he was leaving.

For once, we may have a transition without the usual change of vision and bloodletting. Vanney's possession-based style is exactly how RSL plays. Bez's strengths aren't in vision, they are in managing contracts and cap-space, and dealing with other GM's (he knows everybody through his previous MLS FO job). The three can work very well together.

The only weak point is that will MLSE's new head honcho may prefer someone else, but if the whole setup actually works they will probably leave it alone. After all, no one will want to mess up the management team that finally gets TFC into the playoffs, any more than they would want to shake up the Raptors at this point in time.

This is my hope as well.

Bez's strengths have always been the fact that he knows the league's budget system and player transaction rules better than almost anyone, and that he knows every front-office around the league.

Lagerwey comes in at the top to set the vision and culture. He sets out the grand-scheme plans.
Bez's job is to actually be able to build the team Lagerwey wants. He has to actually make the trades, transfers, contracts, draft-picks, etc. work.
Vanney is the coach, who has to get the best out of the team Lagerwey has envisioned, and Bez has physically built.


I see this as very similar to Brian Burke in Calgary with the Flames.
When he was hired as President, everyone thought it was a recipe for dysfunction.
The general feeling was that it was only a matter of time before Burke would want to take over GM duties on his own.
Burke insisted that this was not the case and that he wanted the President role, and was done with the day-to-day responsibilities of being a GM.

Turns out Burke was right, and it's working out pretty well for them.

Burke set the vision of his blue-collar, "truculent", hard-working team.
Treliving (their GM) believes in this same vision, and went out and built that team.
Bob Hartley (their coach) believes in his teams playing that style as well, and is getting the most out of the team Burke envisioned and Treliving built.


Obviously, the key to all of this is the entire organization buying into the vision and culture that the President sets out.
This wasn't necessarily the case when Burke first took over in Calgary, hence the firing of Feaster and replacing him with Treliving.


Getting back to TFC, I believe that Lagerwey, Bez, and Vanney could make this type of system work.

Based on Lagerwey's history at RSL, as well as listening to Bez and Vanney speak about their ideas for the way this team will move forward, I think they could mesh well and implement the vision and culture that Lagerwey would want to implement.

Also, Vanney has worked successfully under Lagerwey before, and Bez has made it abundantly clear that Vanney is his guy as well.
And I'm sure Lagerwey would have some level of familiarity with Bez already from his time at the league front office.



As long as everyone is actually on the same page, this could be the first time we actually have a fully integrated front office with a cohesive vision for our club from top to bottom.

It would be a nice change!

[Phil]

maybe. but Tim B was de facto TFC president for a while now. once you have tasted the power, it's hard to give it up without feeling jilted. being merely a capologist will feel like a demotion to him. team president is not the GM

I think Tim B will have his hands very full with the USL pro team and all the work that needs proper GM attention.

That being said, there may be a pretty major snuff in there. Its clear though that he is not cut out for the role as a front man for the club in the president capacity.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

maybe. but Tim B was de facto TFC president for a while now. once you have tasted the power, it's hard to give it up without feeling jilted. being merely a capologist will feel like a demotion to him. team president is not the GM

Was he though? His title has always been GM. Sure he might have had a bit more power but he surely knew that it was short lived.

[TFC07]

So if Lagerway is this bigshot - why are RSL letting him go?

They're trying to re-sign him, but TFC might offer more money to steal Lagerway away from RSL.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

BTW im certainly not going to deny that bringing Lagerwey in is a good or bad idea. Clearly great at his job but how many times have wee seen that we pick our FO in a backwards manner

[Red4ever]

Bottom line is that I'm sure word got around via Nelsen that Bez is a ________. Which means having someone who is not a kid making these deals is key. Hence Lagerwey.

I just don't think we pull in players with Bez and Vanney.

Also, I'm sorry, but equating a stupid sexist 'joke" with beating women is incredibly stupid.

[Red I]

BTW im certainly not going to deny that bringing Lagerwey in is a good or bad idea. Clearly great at his job but how many times have wee seen that we pick our FO in a backwards manner

Ya, this FO has put the cart before the horse, but if you have a solid cart and a good horse, you've done 80% of the hard work... we just have to stop turing our horses into glue

[Beach_Red]

maybe. but Tim B was de facto TFC president for a while now. once you have tasted the power, it's hard to give it up without feeling jilted. being merely a capologist will feel like a demotion to him. team president is not the GM

We're talking about MLSE, right? You'd have to be a real insider to have any idea how the power structure in that organization works. Who knows, maybe being the president of TFC and dealing with the MLSE board is a terrible gig, especially for someone without much of a reputation to bring to the table.

[Phil]

Bottom line is that I'm sure word got around via Nelsen that Bez is a ________. Which means having someone who is not a kid making these deals is key. Hence Lagerwey.

I just don't think we pull in players with Bez and Vanney.

Also, I'm sorry, but equating a stupid sexist 'joke" with beating women is incredibly stupid.

I know where you are coming from with the Bez comments, but the Nelsen thing had clown shoes all over it. Ya we install a President in Payne, then he hires a coach who is still playing, doesn't have any coaching credentials, who survives beyond all odds through a major CEO change, then gets canned by a prodigy GM that was hired under a different vision.

I don't think it was a barn burner as far a reputation. It may have helped. LOL

[Red4ever]

I know where you are coming from with the Bez comments, but the Nelsen thing had clown shoes all over it. Ya we install a President in Payne, then he hires a coach who is still playing, doesn't have any coaching credentials, who survives beyond all odds and major CEO change, then gets canned by a prodigy GM that was hired under a different vision.

I don't think it was a barn burner as far a reputation. It may have helped. LOL

True and doesn't everything here? haha

I just wonder if Nelsen has enough clout in England that this hurts our ability to bring in names, or if it rightfully seen as a he said /she said matter. I like to think that our rep is a team that wants badly to win, in a pretty cool city and is willing to pay. I could live with that.

Anyhow I don't see the potential hire as re-inventing the wheel and though I'm fine with Bez in a secondary capacity, an elder statesman with a bit of wisdom and footy credibility wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

[TOBOR !]

Another new face who will be gone within 2 years? Quelle surprise.

^ This.

I'll sit back and watch with mild interest, but I think I know how it'll turn out.

[ensco]

I know we're exhausted by years of this, but for once, this could be a big deal.

If nothing else Lagerwey has shown the ability to find non-DP South Americans. That right there would make him unique in TFC mgmt history.

[Ajax TFC]

I just wonder if Nelsen has enough clout in England that this hurts our ability to bring in names, or if it rightfully seen as a he said /she said matter.

I wouldn't be too worried about that. Nelsen's influence in England seems to be bigger than it actually is since the vast majority of players he brought in from England were ones that he played with and respected him. So from that it seems that he has a lot of influence there. But is any player that hasn't played with him even going to think of his existence if TFC approaches them? Probably not. The biggest team Nelsen played for was Spurs for half a season. If TFC tried to get someone like RvP, would he call up Nelsen and ask him about his time at TFC? Would he even care that he was ever here and now isn't? Would he call up his compatriot Aron Winter and ask him about this place? Probably not. He would probably talk to a former teammate playing in the league (like Henry) and ask him what he thinks of the league in general and his impressions of the Toronto club.

[OgtheDim]

...

Also, I'm sorry, but equating a stupid sexist 'joke" with beating women is incredibly stupid.

Right now, in this city, given everything going on, hiring a guy who has been incredibly stupid about women's rights is tantamount to shooting yourself in the foot. Ghomeshi began that.

Regardless, I doubt they are going to hire Osieck.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i hope to fuck not. Especially with Lagerwey as the potential alternative. Two total opposites.

[ag futbol]

Bottom line is that I'm sure word got around via Nelsen that Bez is a ________. Which means having someone who is not a kid making these deals is key. Hence Lagerwey.

Why is Nelsen credible? He blew up the prior president and couldn't work with the new guy. He's no more credible than Bez.

[Shakes McQueen]

^ This.

I'll sit back and watch with mild interest, but I think I know how it'll turn out.

Pretty much my standard response to anything TFC-related these days.

[Red4ever]

Why is Nelsen credible? He blew up the prior president and couldn't work with the new guy. He's no more credible than Bez.

I'm not saying he's credible. I'm saying if you don't know Bez and you know Nelsen (or you know Nelsen and Defoe) and you ask the two guys who did a tour at this club in Canada that's throwing money around if it's worth going over, what sort of response will you get?

I'd imagine, not very flattering. I don't even know if what you said is an accurate of how shit went down (right or wrong) so how should someone from Swansea or Inter.

My point is, hearsay rules at this point and we better be geared up for that.

[Phil]

I'm not saying he's credible. I'm saying if you don't know Bez and you know Nelsen (or you know Nelsen and Defoe) and you ask the two guys who did a tour at this club in Canada that's throwing money around if it's worth going over, what sort of response will you get?

I'd imagine, not very flattering. I don't even know if what you said is an accurate of how shit went down (right or wrong) so how should someone from Swansea or Inter.

My point is, hearsay rules at this point and we better be geared up for that.

There are always two sides to every story and most players, clubs and agents get that.

As much as Nelsen helped land Defoe, I would imagine he was pretty instrumental in trying to get him out of here in the last window - and that in my best guess (it really is a guess) is why he got turfed so fast. Basically, yes with every failure we burn a bridge or build up another hit to our reputation. Its also the nature of the business for coaches to cycle fast, it seems to be a major trend around the world in football right now. There are also players and agents who are attracted to the damaged clubs like ours because its all about money and the chance to be the guy seen as turning it around.

After surviving MoJo, this all looks like a walk in the park to me. LOL