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  1. #31
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    One more quick point about NASL, it seems that the best NASL players are those who played in the MLS, or are about to get plucked away by MLS sides during the off-season (Mark Bloom, Miguel Ibarra, Christian Ramirez, etc). If a GTA NASL side did exist, I think the supporters of the side would have to be ready for the fact that the best Toronto natives in the NASL side would have a high likelihood to be plucked away by TFC after a good season. I think people would be fine with it initially, but as time goes on, it will become a bigger and bigger issue.

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    Could it be the return of Toronto's only professional football team to win a championship? Could is be the return of the Toronto Blizzards

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    Toronto Blizzard...now thats something I could get behind as well. either in NASL or a nice re-brand for TFC...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    That sucks!

    GTA is big enough to support NASL, MLS and USL-Pro.
    Not if they all play to TFC's standards, it's not.
    a ha ha heh he hoo.. ha

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    If they locate themselves in North York ... maybe even have their name as North York, I'd get season tickets right away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC_Allez View Post
    Toronto Blizzard...now thats something I could get behind as well. either in NASL or a nice re-brand for TFC...
    +1

    Bring back the Blizzard! (both the team, and the guy who used that handle here in the early years of this board)
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC_Allez View Post
    If Mississauga were to be home to an NASL team...I'd be all over that. But it would have to be called Mississauga and not Toronto.
    GTA United

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC_Allez View Post
    Toronto Blizzard...now thats something I could get behind as well. either in NASL or a nice re-brand for TFC...
    I don't get the affinity for the name. TFC is about to go into its 9th season, the Blizzard name only existed for 6. We already have more history than the Blizzard ever did. It wasn't even the name of the team who won the Soccer Bowl, that was the Metros-Croatia.

    There was a Blizzard in the CSL for 7 years as well but that was pretty league as far as I know.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironcub14 View Post
    The only city that currently has both a MLS and a NASL club is NYC, and the Cosmos are struggling to get a proper stadium while playing in Long Island right now at Hofstra University. Their attendance has been declining badly this year compared to 2013, and their stadium proposal plans seem to be struggling (I'm following the Cosmos stadium issue casually as an Ottawa supporter). NYCFC isn't going to help.

    The Atlanta Silverbacks decided this month that they will not try to compete with the incoming Atlanta MLS side and are looking for a relocation. All these are just observations to keep in mind, I understand there are many differences between the clubs and the cities of NYC, Toronto and Atlanta
    I've said it before and will say it again: I've had some insight into NASL from people who've been involved since day one, and its prospects aren't good in its present form. Its stated objective of competing with MLS will never happen.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kodiakTFC View Post
    GTA United
    That would definitely work for me!

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jahinho_Guerro View Post
    Could it be the return of Toronto's only professional football team to win a championship? Could is be the return of the Toronto Blizzards
    Do you mean Toronto Metros Croatia?

    And let's not forget about Toronto City who also won a championship in the 60's. It is incredible to think Toronto had a football team coached by Malcolm Alison which featured Johnny Haynes and Sir Stanley Matthews to name a few.

    I've day dreamed many times about winning the lottery and starting an NASL side called Toronto City.
    Last edited by Greatest Ripoff; 11-04-2014 at 02:51 AM.

  12. #42
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    Wow. Lots of points made in this thread. Lots of goodwill towards the game and the growth of it in the area but:

    Varsity does not want to deal with any professional clubs. The negotiation that fell through with the Argos plus the Varsity Blues almost closing shop cemented Varsity as Uni focused.

    jloome is worth repeating in that NASL, while a great level of footy, is not doing that well as a league and is working less closely with MLS. Apart from the Canadian championship and the odd deal between Canadian clubs USL is the partnership that MLS wants to be the top of the pyramid of.

    NASL would be great for Hamilton and the league would be a natural partner of the CFL being the tier 2 that doesn't have a direct link to the top tier. I'd love to see an NASL team in the GTA for the Argos problem to go away but there is no way there is that many anti-TFC fans of the game THAT WOULD BECOME STH. NASL is a gate driven league that cannot compete realistically in a city like Toronto. This city, this area, watches the best and no less.

    Will people go watch NASL Toronto? Yes. More than the Lynx but not so many to justify a franchise.

    And lastly- To the question of why would we want a USL team in Toronto more than an NASL team is pretty much in the site header- A true TFC farm team does more for us now than the competition of NASL for players.

    I like the ambition of the question but it's a little early yet. I can't wait to see how it pans out though. I'd love to see it all happen even if I don't see it being successful for NASL it solves both our Argos problem and our problem with getting enough playing time for our youth in the USL.

    I would gladly wait until 2 NASL teams came to the GTA, Hamilton to start their CFL-like rivaly and see the USL team play out of BMO.
    Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 11-04-2014 at 08:28 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I've said it before and will say it again: I've had some insight into NASL from people who've been involved since day one, and its prospects aren't good in its present form. Its stated objective of competing with MLS will never happen.
    Agreed. I think Soccer in North America is being set up as with the other sports - One Major League with affiliated Minor League farm teams. Honestly, the MLB model isn't a bad one to follow, with USL Pro being MLS' AA-equivalent. The problem is that the equivalent AAA teams (NASL) don't want to accept their position on the hierarchy. The only way I think they will survive is to build a CFL-equivalent in Canada and build that base while fighting with MLS for market share down in the US. Once MLS has reached 32 teams, only then will NASL be able to take stock and decide where best to deploy survivable franchises.

    Jloome, you mentioned how you have insights into NASL - how much is egos at work rather than a desire to build the North American Soccer Pyramid?

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    Agreed. I think Soccer in North America is being set up as with the other sports - One Major League with affiliated Minor League farm teams. Honestly, the MLB model isn't a bad one to follow, with USL Pro being MLS' AA-equivalent. The problem is that the equivalent AAA teams (NASL) don't want to accept their position on the hierarchy. The only way I think they will survive is to build a CFL-equivalent in Canada and build that base while fighting with MLS for market share down in the US. Once MLS has reached 32 teams, only then will NASL be able to take stock and decide where best to deploy survivable franchises.

    Jloome, you mentioned how you have insights into NASL - how much is egos at work rather than a desire to build the North American Soccer Pyramid?
    I'm sure jloome has more insight on this than I but we can start with the fact that NASL are teams that CEDED from the USL. That doesn't build bridges from either side. NASL forming closer relationships with USL and vice versa is very much about egos.

    NASL had some of the most successful teams but as a league they are all they have vs the USL structure that has more structure, levels, partnerships and experience as a whole.

    I hope they come to terms but it's more likely the NASL Canadian teams find more stability in a CFL partnership.

    jloome?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironcub14 View Post
    One more quick point about NASL, it seems that the best NASL players are those who played in the MLS, or are about to get plucked away by MLS sides during the off-season (Mark Bloom, Miguel Ibarra, Christian Ramirez, etc). If a GTA NASL side did exist, I think the supporters of the side would have to be ready for the fact that the best Toronto natives in the NASL side would have a high likelihood to be plucked away by TFC after a good season. I think people would be fine with it initially, but as time goes on, it will become a bigger and bigger issue.
    So? It's been like that for over a 100 years in England?


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    I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority but I'm of the belief that TFC should've been called the Blizzard from the very beginning. It would've been a nice continuation from the old NASL days. Even though we never won a soccer bowl as the Blizzard, at least we were a consistently competitive team that ALMOST won a couple of times lol

    But here's a thought: since the Argos to BMO is pretty much a sure thing (it disgusts me, but it is what it is), re-brand to the Blizzard, change the colour of all the seats in BMO from red to blue, put a big bronze statue of Eusebio outside, and the stadium will make sense for everyone.
    I'll see myself to the door lol please dont revoke my membership.

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC_Allez View Post
    I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority but I'm of the belief that TFC should've been called the Blizzard from the very beginning. It would've been a nice continuation from the old NASL days. Even though we never won a soccer bowl as the Blizzard, at least we were a consistently competitive team that ALMOST won a couple of times lol

    But here's a thought: since the Argos to BMO is pretty much a sure thing (it disgusts me, but it is what it is), re-brand to the Blizzard, change the colour of all the seats in BMO from red to blue, put a big bronze statue of Eusebio outside, and the stadium will make sense for everyone.
    I'll see myself to the door lol please dont revoke my membership.
    the last thing I want is Argos fans to feel at home at BMO
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by zeelaw View Post
    So? It's been like that for over a 100 years in England?
    I'm just saying that, if you are attracted to a NASL side in the GTA because you are vehemently anti-MLSE/TFC, then you are just going to have a peach of a time when a MLS side in the same CMA scoops up your best homegrown players in your NASL side after one good season... as it's been like for over a 100 years in England. The supporters have to understand that and be ready for it when they jump aboard.

    I would look forward to a NASL side in Hamilton for sure. I would only look forward to a NASL side in GTA only after a NASL Hamilton side got going, and a USL Pro Toronto side got going, and that there is strong evidence from a market feasibility study or some corporate bs that really does say that the GTA could support MLS/NASL/USL Pro/USL PDL/L1O/CSL/etc all at the same time.

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    I wonder how sanctioning would go though. L1O is sanctioned by OSA and as per their rules {subset pushed down from CSA} the OSA {and CSA} is ONLY allowed to sanction 1 league of professional / semi-professional under their sanctioning. It would appear TFC's first in took that spot but L1O was started so that means TFC got CSA permission? Regardless, L1O and TFC have sanctioning taking the spot(s). Where would NASL or USL-Pro go?
    I would love to know the real answer behind this because I was trying to activate a league at the Tier-2 level (same as NASL) but strictly for Southern Ontario with 14 teams in cities that are all within 4 hours drive of a Central location, 13 home, 13 away, single table, 1 game per week no playoffs, single entity ownership for cap purposes yadda yadda, and OSA shot me down because of the "only 1 sanctioned league" thing. CSA said because the teams are all in Ontario, only OSA can sanction it. So there went my dream.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    I'm sure jloome has more insight on this than I but we can start with the fact that NASL are teams that CEDED from the USL. That doesn't build bridges from either side. NASL forming closer relationships with USL and vice versa is very much about egos.

    NASL had some of the most successful teams but as a league they are all they have vs the USL structure that has more structure, levels, partnerships and experience as a whole.

    I hope they come to terms but it's more likely the NASL Canadian teams find more stability in a CFL partnership.

    jloome?
    I would prefer USL simply because of the legal responsibilities to the parent; USL itself (and the a-league before it) is no better run than NASL, which is why the A-league floundered for years.

    But NY Red Bulls have loaned to the Cosmos, other clubs have loaned to NASL teams. It can work if it has to.

    I will say that, as someone suggested above, much of the investment in NASL clubs (and to an extent USL) is based very much in pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking by guys with more money than sense. Even then, the losses have been high enough for most teams that the original owners have diversified with other soccer "enthusiast" investors being brought in to lessen the blow. But with no real centralized control over how owners behave, no substantive and realistic communications plan and very little understanding on the part of owners of how the game is run or the business side, NASL is very much still fly-by-night. It is slowly improving, and some clubs are doing it as well as can be expected. But the very fact that it's been done to "take advantage" of the groundswell of firm-style fan support and not because of a grassroots appreciation or knowledge of the game is a big part of why it hasn't done well.

    The Cosmos are fairly typical; a shrinking fan base an hour out of the city, with only the name to rest on. Most clubs don't even have that.

    USL was just as owner-driven and idiotic at one point; but coming under MLS partnership has been its saving grace.

    I've interviewed a lot of people involved in minor pro soccer at one time or another in Canada and the U.S.; half are starry-eyed good ol' boys and the other half are the predators keen to eat their scraps. If owner egos and schuysters didn't rule the roost, there's no reason to think sustainable business models for multiple pro tiers couldn't be established.

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    +1

    Bring back the Blizzard! (both the team, and the guy who used that handle here in the early years of this board)
    hell yeah, fond memories of watching the Blizzard at Varsity stadium in the csl......

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    Quote Originally Posted by bones View Post
    I wonder how sanctioning would go though. L1O is sanctioned by OSA and as per their rules {subset pushed down from CSA} the OSA {and CSA} is ONLY allowed to sanction 1 league of professional / semi-professional under their sanctioning. It would appear TFC's first in took that spot but L1O was started so that means TFC got CSA permission? Regardless, L1O and TFC have sanctioning taking the spot(s). Where would NASL or USL-Pro go?
    I would love to know the real answer behind this because I was trying to activate a league at the Tier-2 level (same as NASL) but strictly for Southern Ontario with 14 teams in cities that are all within 4 hours drive of a Central location, 13 home, 13 away, single table, 1 game per week no playoffs, single entity ownership for cap purposes yadda yadda, and OSA shot me down because of the "only 1 sanctioned league" thing. CSA said because the teams are all in Ontario, only OSA can sanction it. So there went my dream.
    Toronto USL Pro team is affiliated with TFC. So they're under TFC, but that doesn't mean USL Pro league in general is sanction by CSA. CSA give Canadian MLS clubs permission to set up USL Pro teams for development purposes with strict Canadian requirements.

    League One (other provincial semi-pro leagues in Canada) is consider 3rd division by CSA, so this is why USL Pro will never be form outside of Canadian MLS clubs.

    NASL is already sanction by CSA and accepted by OSA (Ottawa Fury) as 2nd tier nationwide. Hamilton is rumour to join NASL soon, so I don't understand why all confusion with CSA and OSA role here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC_Allez View Post
    Toronto Blizzard...now thats something I could get behind as well. either in NASL or a nice re-brand for TFC...

    love tfc, but the Blizzard were'nt / ain't bad......remember watching many games at varsity solo because friends did'nt give a shit....lol....late autumn/playoff games were great, especially vs Bunbury and the Steelers.

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    Toronto USL Pro team is affiliated with TFC. So they're under TFC, but that doesn't mean USL Pro league in general is sanction by CSA. CSA give Canadian MLS clubs permission to set up USL Pro teams for development purposes with strict Canadian requirements.

    League One (other provincial semi-pro leagues in Canada) is consider 3rd division by CSA, so this is why USL Pro will never be form outside of Canadian MLS clubs.

    NASL is already sanction by CSA and accepted by OSA (Ottawa Fury) as 2nd tier nationwide. Hamilton is rumour to join NASL soon, so I don't understand why all confusion with CSA and OSA role here?

    Aaah permission... there's the key thing.

    The fact it's 3rd tier or 18th tier beer making division is irrelevant, if a league is sanctioned by OSA, then the OSA is not allowed to sanction another league regardless of level. If it's pro/semi-pro, they're not allowed to, period.

    I think you're bang on about "never be form outside of a Canadian MLS club" part.

    My confusion was the special permission part. Seems to be ok for special permission for affiliates of MLS only.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    +1

    Bring back the Blizzard! (both the team, and the guy who used that handle here in the early years of this board)
    What about bringing back...

    TORONTO CITY FC?
    Last edited by Cashcleaner; 11-05-2014 at 12:53 AM.
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    A bit more information was just released on the Two Solitudes podcast. Duane mentioned that the investor group is a major real estate firm in the city. He is simply giving them the opportunity to comment before he releases more information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flamehawk View Post
    A bit more information was just released on the Two Solitudes podcast. Duane mentioned that the investor group is a major real estate firm in the city. He is simply giving them the opportunity to comment before he releases more information.
    That sucks! I was hoping it was someone with soccer ties.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    That sucks! I was hoping it was someone with soccer ties.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flamehawk View Post
    A bit more information was just released on the Two Solitudes podcast. Duane mentioned that the investor group is a major real estate firm in the city. He is simply giving them the opportunity to comment before he releases more information.
    MLSE?

    Because they sure as shit aren't running sports franchises.

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