Bob Bradley that won an MLS Cup?Originally Posted by portu
Bob Bradley that won an MLS Cup?
QFT. This is why clubs develop coaches over a few seasons, the one thing we haven't really done.
I agree it's not the same as europe.
Where these guys are coming from, they have HUGE numbers of staff, they manage players who have been highly trained since the age of 10 and are ruthlessly professional but also cutthroat when it comes to negotiating salaries and whatnot.
Super coach comes to North America. Realizes, his staff of 50+ is now a staff of 10 people. He actually has to get his hands dirty a lot more than he did before when it comes to managing a budget and identifying talent. He can no longer afford the players he did in the past, has to look in totally different places for talent and figure out what qualities he's going to sacrifice to make things work (an entirely foreign concept). His domestic players require training on the basics of football because they haven't learned them yet in an academy or in college. Rather than focus, he gets a squad of players with varying levels of professionalism, many of which wonder whether they'll be cut shortly given a lack of contract security and be looking into a void career wise.
Now that being said, I think a lot of coaches from central / south america would be able to make it work. they have direct knowledge of a primary feeder, experience with limited budgets, understand what it is to manager players who are less than 100% perfect. Relating to the North American player could be challenging, but the right guy could still do it I'm sure.
It would still appear to me that MLS has little interest in letting foreigners into their coaching club. The pool of candidates they use now are cheap, and I think that's their primary concern.
I believe we need a GM who has been a GM previously and a Coach who has previously been a winning coach in OUR league. whats vanney got? 10 games I believe. We do NOT have time on our side. You want to bring up a coach and it takes a few years, fine make him academy coach till you see potential. Most coaches all over the world dont get the wheel till they bring a small b team up out of the basement and THEN people come asking for them to run theyre club. Who comes in will have to accept our roster as is, no rebuild and if theres a couple bad apples, theyre removed. this is not hard at all. We dont need a rebuild, the major pieces are there. And were not asking people to come who have no interest. We have money and one of the best facilities in the world, in a world class city.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octavio_Zambrano
Octavio Zambrano is down in ecuador and I believe he would relish the opportunity.
6 years MLS head coach experience
UEFA A diploma, USSF 'A' coaching license
took last place galaxy in 97 from last in conference 0-3 to 15-13 and playoffs,
The 1998 Galaxy went 24 and 8 and broke all MLS scoring records, ending the year with 85 goals scored, the 1998 Galaxy became the first North American professional soccer team to make it to a CONCACAF clubs final against Cruz Azul of Mexico
got galaxy to the cup final in 99,
Zambrano still holds the best league and goal scoring record amongst all MetroStars/Red Bull Coaches, a list that includes some famous coaches amongst them: Carlos Queiroz, Alberto Parreira, Bora MIlutinovic, Bruce Arena, Juan Carlos Osorio and Bob Bradley.
1994 USISL Western Division Coach of the Year
In January 2012 Zambrano was named head coach for Deportivo Pereira of the Columbian Categoría Primera B. [4] Deportivo Pereira during the second semester of 2012 broke the record of points obtained in a single season by any Colombian professional soccer team since the installment of short tournaments, the team obtained 43 out 54 possible points and went unbeaten at home for 11 months and 20 days. Was the highest scoring team in the league and the least scored against. During the first tournament of 2013 after a good start a string of injuries to main players in the defense coincided with a failure to secure a victory in 4 consecutive games and left the team out of the group of 8.
I just found this, WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR!!!
august 10,2014
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/articl...ted-return-mls
Overall, his .587 winning percentage is second best all-time in MLS among coaches with at least 50 games managed. Only LA Galaxy's Bruce Arena has a better winning percentage (.602).
Yeah, he's been mentioned a lot on these boards over the various seasons as a potential. I'm not sure why he doesn't get another shot; he was an assistant at KC a few seasons ago. It's a bit weird actually; maybe he had a rep with the owners for being difficult or demanding. Seems humble and usually puts out winning teams, so it's a mystery.
One of the few I'd say might be able by experience to turn it around quickly. Having said that, Ray Hudson had a massive winning season at Miami during MLS 1.0 as well, and then had a horrible time later on, I believe with DC united.
The league was substantially below its current pace and tactical acumen when Zambrano was last a head coach, in other words. But the fact that he's won elsewhere speaks well for him. Plus, he'd be a pipeline to SA talent.
Also, people don't always see stats as the full story. Here's a quote from the Facebook page of his former goalie at NY MetroStars, Mike Aman:
"
Mike Ammann Quick story, in LA to play Galaxy. Day before game, OZ tells Peter Villegas to man mark Cienfuegos. We ask who is going to play wide right in mid? OZ says don't worry about it because they won't attack that side if we shut down Cien. Guess he forgot that Greg Vanney was left back and would destroy us. Sure enough, Vanney got the ball for the first 30 minutes at the Rose Bowl all alone. Thank god the players made the adjustment on the field and told Peter just to go back wide right. OZ never even knew. One of many, but you would have loved being in the locker room. He proved that good players can win games for a team, not necessarily the coaching.
EDIT: It's also rumored he was acting as a player agent while coaching and signing his own players. Don't know if that's true; same story we heard about Mo when he was here, and there was never anythign solid to support it.
Last edited by jloome; 10-21-2014 at 12:19 AM.
not enough to discredit him. he wants to come which is key, those stats he posted, theyre still standing, no ones broke them yet. that stands for somthing. but bogers or the board would have to do it i believe
bez would be too scared this guy becomes director and has him demoted.
thats one of the things Im gonna miss with nelson, his contact influence. vanney&bez.....
you know who else had contact influence? Mo. Winter to a lesser extent. Stop letting people like that run this team. I gaurentee you that SKC and D.C. and Columbus and etc couldn't give two shits their managers don't have contact influence.
I didnt say it is a hiring factor for clubs. I agree it has nothing to do with if a coach is good but its a bonus. Im speaking from my pov. and mo brought over dichio and winter brought koevermans so you can see contacts do help. did you have any ideas for coach's? thats what the topic is
Threads like these always go nowhere for the same reason: Bruce and Sigi aren't coming, national team coaching is not the same thing as being a head coach, foreign coaches generally have a poor record in MLS unless they also played or coached here and understand the league, who is available either coached in MLS 1.0 (which was a different league) or has been fired due to a losing record.
What most winning MLS sides do is hire someone like Vanney, who has either academy or NCAA experience. They luck out by getting one who is good, and they stick with him long enough to get through the inevitable adjustment period.
Much riskier is to hire a guy like Nelsen with zero coaching experience and zero coaching training. It's pretty stupid to do that, actually.
I don't know why people repeat like a mantra that Vanney has "no coaching experience." He has a lot of training and experience at a level behind MLS, exactly what those who become winners do. Would I pick Bruce or Sigi over him? Of course, but they aren't coming.
The team with the worst long term record before us was NY during the MetroStars era, and guess how they got there? By changing coaches every year to "win now," exactly what some here are proposing yet again. How has that worked for us so far?
Last edited by Oldtimer; 10-21-2014 at 04:25 AM.
Threads like these?
why does everyone keep saying bruce or sigi, not once did I mention them or a foreign coach.
I mentioned OZ and theres no reason we should not sign him over vanney.
theres alot of people better qualified. and we're all entitled to our 2 cents
MLS 1.0 guy. When he was coaching in MLS, the bottom salary was $12k, Nick Garcia was "defender of the year, " there were no academies (only a draft), there were no DPs, and you had "penalty shootouts" like hockey to decide ties. Sure he might have had a good record way back then, but I would think that someone a little more familiar with a modern MLS setup would do better. You are totally entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that coaching instability is why this team has lost for 8 years. You don't have to be a Fergie or a Capello to win in this league, but you need a plan and stability.
I was going to say, why are people going back to the 90's for a coach? We have already had a coach with tactics from MLS circa 2006. We don't need one from circa 1998.
The reason Robinson VWC produced much better quality football then RN TFC, is because VWC already perpetuated some football identity. TFC has none to speak of. IMO TFC needs a experienced manager to establish an identity, to get away from this underdog, bunker down, passive aggressive mentality.
On recent memory, Backe and Schalibaum did better then average MLS coach did.
Picking up another rookie, and hope for the best is an irresponsible business decision.
I am sure far more rookie coaches ( local and foreign ) fail in this league, compared to experienced foreign specialists.
Schallibaum was suspended four times during his season with the Impact and fired within one year of his start.
Backe was so "good" he only lasted 2 years, despite having one of the best DPs in the league on his team, and was replaced by Mike Petke, an American former-player "rookie" by your standards, who has done a very job coaching NYRB and shows no sign of going anywhere.
There was no reason on paper to think that Petke would do so well. Greg Vanney has exactly the same experience as Petke (he was an assistant at Chivas, Petke was an assistant at NYRB). Despite Petke's "rookie" status, they are in the playoffs.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 10-21-2014 at 08:06 AM.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
I really can't believe people are calling for Schallibaum.
I am sure we would rather take a passionate coach that takes us into playoffs, then a politically correct one that wastes another year here.
Petke arguably inherited some of the good things Backe set up, and this is how we should be doing it.
Unbelievable, isn't it?
Vanney didn't win immediately, even though he inherited a squad that doesn't play his style. Fire him and hire the next Schallibaum, it's gotta work!
Backe actually was a very rare exception as a foreign coach in that he didn't flame out immediately. More typically, you get an experienced foreign coach, like the coach of Feyenoord, Ruud Gullit, who tanked LA Galaxy despite having a great team.
Your chance of getting a foreign coach that works out is much, much, smaller than that a coach like Vanney will work out. Gullit, Schallibaum are what is typical.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
What's the odd finding NA coach with winning record? Not much better!
So why limit your choices based on geography? We're entering in new era in MLS where cap is going to increase which means we're going to see a lot more talented players joining the league. Do you trust someone like Vanney to manage these new players and DP's?
The real reason why a lot of MLS teams hire rookie American coaches because it's cheap. TFC is one of few clubs can actually afford to pay for quality manager, so why cheap out like most of MLS teams?
If CSA (just bad as TFC) can hire someone like Floro (well qualified coach with tons of experience) with small budget, then why can't TFC do the same who are rich with resources?
Nelsen was one of the best paid coaches in the league when he was here, no?
I think 'protectionism' and lack of scouting among the reasons behind hiring [local] rookie coaches.
Richie Williams. Former asst coach at NYRB, protege of Bruce Arena. Was interim in 2009, was in line for HC job but Salzburg hired Backe instead. Now HC for US U-17.
No. There was a figure of $250K a year thrown out.
No more experienced than Vanney.
Find me a foreign coach who has done truly well in MLS without having played/coached in North America before. No? Well that's your answer.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Considering Barry McLean is running our USL team - or so I read - it would appear TFC wouldn't rule that out.
Although why TFC would want that or how it isn't completely forbidden by the league, I have no idea.
I'd dispute that. He spent a lot more time in an assistant role than Vanney has. Also done some work for a first team that has won praise. Nothing about what Vanney has done done so far, albeit in a short period, is notable.
As far as foreign coaches go, it's more important to assess can it work now than has it worked in the past. Prior to Jason Kreis nobody wanted to hire somebody that green, now clubs are doing it left and right even though there's a high flame out rate and a lot of them just suck.
As time goes on, this league starts to look a lot more like others around the world and the idea that a foreign coach can be successful would seem, into mind at least, to be more likely.
Show me another league where you have players earning $40k starting alongside players earning $3 million, with insane travel across multiple time zones, and I might agree.
We have yet to see an actual live example of a foreign coach that has worked out long-term. Getting a foreign coach is much more risky than getting a guy like Vanney.
Vanney may or may not be the guy. He is very tactically aware, but the team didn't perform. The question is why? I would put it down to it not being his preferred team, and not having enough time for his tactics to be taught.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
That is changing as we speak. Salaries are going up, travel is getting better, and why people assume foreign managers can't rap their head around the requirements of travel and adjust I it, I have no idea. That is not rocket science.
The failure rate for coaches like Vanney is still significant. The sample size of foreign coaches is small. Backe was not that bad, neither was de Los Cabos despite the Fire not doing much. The facade dies a little bit all the time.
This is no different than MLS pre-Kreis. What would you have argued then?
Last edited by ag futbol; 10-21-2014 at 10:52 AM.
Compared to others, how does that stack up?
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