Building in the offseason

[jloome]

Okay, so 2014 is a wrap. It sucked, again.
However...
We have a core of decent players. We have a coach at least willing to try moving forward. We have owners with deep pockets.

With all that sunshine in mind...

I'd like to see us move to a different formation next year, one that takes our best players into consideration for their strengths, and one that accounts for trends around the league tactically.

We need to switch to a 4-3-3 or variant thereof. With our personnel, I'm thinking a 4-2-3-1:

----------------Bendik------------------
NEWRB/Bloom--NEW CB--Caldwell/New CB--Morrow
------------Bradley---NewDM/Warner------------
--------Oduro---Gilberto/NewAM--Osorio
----------------New DP striker/Larin/Hamilton/Dike---------------

We drop defoe, bring in a new DP striker. We draft Larin if we can get him, but look for someone else to bolster the midfield offensively as well; if Gilberto leaves, we get a DP AM. We sign two new center backs and a new right back.

We play is as a largely four-man offense built around speed, with Bradley as an extra trailer. in defense, we use the dual anchors to break up anything going into the danger zone just ahead of the box. One can also be used to man-mark danger players like Higuain or Morales while the other plays as a straight anchor. We transition with speed through Oduro and Gilberto/AM, and Osorio drops back slightly to be the second outlet man after Bradley. That way, depending upon which side the ball is played to, we'll have a good passer moving the ball in transition to our more talented offensive players.

Ideally, even if we don't get a DP AM who replaces Gilberto, we'd find someone stronger than both Oduro and Osorio and make those two compete for the other spot.

Thoughts, opinions, options?

[notthesun]

Too early for me to get into specifics. Need confirmation that Vanney is staying first, and need to see what happens with Henry and Gilberto (and I guess Defoe although that's basically a wrap at this point).

I will say this, as things stand I would be very surprised to see Dike in the fold next year. Which is a damn shame for him personally, and hopefully not something we come to regret later.

[inheavensince07]

Okay, so 2014 is a wrap. It sucked, again.
However...
We have a core of decent players. We have a coach at least willing to try moving forward. We have owners with deep pockets.

With all that sunshine in mind...

I'd like to see us move to a different formation next year, one that takes our best players into consideration for their strengths, and one that accounts for trends around the league tactically.

We need to switch to a 4-3-3 or variant thereof. With our personnel, I'm thinking a 4-2-3-1:

----------------Bendik------------------
NEWRB/Bloom--NEW CB--Caldwell/New CB--Morrow
------------Bradley---NewDM/Warner------------
--------Oduro---Gilberto/NewAM--Osorio
----------------New DP striker/Larin/Hamilton/Dike---------------

We drop defoe, bring in a new DP striker. We draft Larin if we can get him, but look for someone else to bolster the midfield offensively as well; if Gilberto leaves, we get a DP AM. We sign two new center backs and a new right back.

We play is as a largely four-man offense built around speed, with Bradley as an extra trailer. in defense, we use the dual anchors to break up anything going into the danger zone just ahead of the box. One can also be used to man-mark danger players like Higuain or Morales while the other plays as a straight anchor. We transition with speed through Oduro and Gilberto/AM, and Osorio drops back slightly to be the second outlet man after Bradley. That way, depending upon which side the ball is played to, we'll have a good passer moving the ball in transition to our more talented offensive players.

Ideally, even if we don't get a DP AM who replaces Gilberto, we'd find someone stronger than both Oduro and Osorio and make those two compete for the other spot.

Thoughts, opinions, options?

OMG !!!! The team must loves guys like you .. With all due respect they shit the bed for almost a decade now and they still have not even cleaned out there No playoff asses yet .. It has got to be too soon to even attempt to discuss this .. Plus in MLS many teams completely turn over year to year .. especially shit ones like TFC...

I have had seasons since Day 1 and they will be gonzo soon in fact I have already set up their emails to go to spam .. Worst MLS team of all time is now cemented .. Makes sense because their big Brother is the worst sports team of all time .. Culture is culture ..

Peace and Love devoted Fans .. But TFC can Fuck right off for life for me

[Leedsoronto]

Hmm erm, so, what your saying, in short, is ya not in heaven anymore then, Yeh?

[inheavensince07]

Hmm erm, so, what your saying, in short, is ya not in heaven anymore then, Yeh?

Correct .. I used to think about TFC on every game day and know it was coming etc.. This year it never even entered my mind , still in heaven but in different way

[WestStandGeoff]

----------------Bendik------------------
NEWRB/Bloom--NEW CB--Caldwell/New CB--Morrow
------------Bradley---NewDM/Warner------------
--------Oduro---Gilberto/NewAM--Osorio
----------------New DP striker/Larin/Hamilton/Dike---------------

So are you suggesting we get rid of (or lose) both Henry and Hagglund? Agree that we need to improve at CB, but Hagglund way surpassed expectations, and despite a few bonehead moves Henry has at least played as well as I expected this season (including a few key tackles today). At the least one or both should be kept for depth.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

So are you suggesting we get rid of (or lose) both Henry and Hagglund? Agree that we need to improve at CB, but Hagglund way surpassed expectations, and despite a few bonehead moves Henry has at least played as well as I expected this season (including a few key tackles today). At the least one or both should be kept for depth.

Henry is rumored to have been sold to Europe.
Hagglund, tho a great rookie is still just that. He can fill in and learn his trade and eventually be ready to take over. Need another vet or two in that position

[Areathrasher]

Talked to Henry tonight. Sounded like a man that wasn't here next year

[flamehawk]

Talked to Henry tonight. Sounded like a man that wasn't here next year

What'd he say? And what gave you that impression?

[WestStandGeoff]

Henry is rumored to have been sold to Europe.
Hagglund, tho a great rookie is still just that. He can fill in and learn his trade and eventually be ready to take over. Need another vet or two in that position

Agreed, but since jloome left Hagglund out while still showing 4 striker options, I thought it was worth asking for clarity if he sees both of them gone in the off season somewhere.

[jloome]

So are you suggesting we get rid of (or lose) both Henry and Hagglund? Agree that we need to improve at CB, but Hagglund way surpassed expectations, and despite a few bonehead moves Henry has at least played as well as I expected this season (including a few key tackles today). At the least one or both should be kept for depth.

Hagglund has the tools but made a lot of significant, game-changing mistakes. He's not ready to start on a team that's going to contend in this league.

EDIT: Just listed the backup strikers because they're all fairly even. We need a DP striker next year.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Agreed, but since jloome left Hagglund out while still showing 4 striker options, I thought it was worth asking for clarity if he sees both of them gone in the off season somewhere.

gotcha

[jazzy]

What'd he say? And what gave you that impression?

on TFC instagram someone mentions he's not here next year..(wife saw it)

[ag futbol]

I don't think Gilberto works in the middle. It would be maicon santos part 2.

[jazzy]

I don't think Gilberto works in the middle. It would be maicon santos part 2.

in the early part of the season if I'm not mistaken he came out in an AM situation and caused havoc ....yes I'd love a controlling playmaker but it seems there isn't the desire in mgmt ....or knowledge in how to work it with Bradley...

[flamehawk]

I am actually leaning towards keeping Vanney and giving him time .. that said http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holger_Osieck is available. Played and managed in Canada .. whether that translates to success in MLS however.

[pdubs]

in the early part of the season if I'm not mistaken he came out in an AM situation and caused havoc ....yes I'd love a controlling playmaker but it seems there isn't the desire in mgmt ....or knowledge in how to work it with Bradley...

why don't we use a DP spot on an actual battle hardened AM tho?

if mgmt can't identify this need then idk. lol

[OgtheDim]

I'm so annoyed with how today went, I decided to get all anorak to get rid of my frustrations.


Apologies for the long post.

Sooooo...here's a few thoughts on keepers and defenders

************************************************** ****************************

Keepers

We don't have a big keeper problem. Its not our most glaring weakness for sure. If we could get a Rimando or Kennedy from Chivas, would definitely go for them. But, realistically, we are going to be growing Bendik and Roberts for the next 5 seasons.

********************************


Bendik

Will be 26 next April. Still young for a keeper. A good shot stopper. Laconic nature off the pitch hides a fierce competitor on it. Distribution not up to what the rest of the league does. Learning to control his defence. Growing into the position.

Should he be protected for the expansion draft? - Yes

Position Next Season - Starting Keeper

Where would I like to See Him - Unless there is an obvious upgrade, the Joseph Bendik 5 year plan continues into its 3rd year.


Konopka

Cheap career backup. Most games he has ever had in a season is 12 in Ireland. Knows his place and seems Ok with it. At age 30 next April, not too old.

Should he be protected for the expansion draft? - No.

Will he be taken in the expansion draft? - No

Position Next Season - Backup / Voyageurs Cup Keeper

Where would I like to see him? - Backup / Voyageurs Cup Keeper


Roberts

Young. Future role as a backup pushing the starter in a few seasons but not yet. Needs playing time.


Should he be protected for the expansion draft? - N/A (First contract)

Position Next Season - Starter on USLPro Toronto FC II team

Where would I like to see him? - challenging Konopka by the end of the season


************************************************** **

Defence

Defence is our biggest issue. Pretty much all MLS teams play with a back 4. We would need to find some really special players to be trying a 3 man back line. Our CD's are just not good enough. Part of this is midfield support but we get ourselves into awful predicaments just because of decisions the CD's make. Its not an awful bunch. Just not consistent enough for 90 minutes.

What will happen? Henry is going on a transfer. Bloom will go, as will Orr. Caldwell will stay for one more season, and we will get another starting CD.

What would I like to see? 2 new CD's, the same quality as Morrow on the Right side and a decent backup

************************************

Central Defenders

Caldwell


Neither impressive nor awful. 35 next September. Clock is ticking Steady defence. Losing his step slowly. Has issues maintaining a high line. Has no pursuit speed left. Good positioning. Good in the air on defence A threat in the air on set pieces but never quite gets there. Can't play the ball out of the back. Doesn't have the passing capability to step up. Seems to have fixed his arms askew to get penalties issue. Leads the line well. Influence missed when not there. Expensive contract using up a lot of cap space. Acts well as captain.

Should he be protected for the expansion draft? - No

Will he be taken in the expansion draft? - Unlikely, due to salary


Probable Position Next Season - Starting CD

Where I would Like to see him - If we can get a younger cheaper backline leader, Caldwell should be our one contract that we use with that terminate option. We don't need his overall leadership and the defence wasn't good enough. Chances of him making it through next season at the level he has been playing are not good.


Henry

Athletic, decent enough with the ball at feet. Not a great passer. Speed for days. Mental mistakes every game. Was expected to pick up his game this season and didn't. Good in the air on both sides. Needs to learn to attack the goal more on set pieces. He's only 22 in April and will be a stud CD some day and a Canadian MNT stalwart.

Should he be protected for the expansion draft? - Yes

Probable Position Next Season - Transferred. He's gone. Future is in Europe. Needs to go and be a #3 CD on a team where he can learn more. Go and do us all proud young man.



Orr

Not good enough to start or come in as sub. 32 next season. Mostly played as injury replacement. Was supposed to be a RB but almost never played there. Willing to play the ball out of the back. Can pass the ball well, but not consistently. Got frustrated with plays going bad and stopped instead of pursuing. Lost a step. Good guy around the locker room.

Probable Position Next Season - Loan ends at end of December. Contract with Blackburn ending summer 2015. We can't afford what he might get from a lower division team in England. If he wanted to hang around for $75K like he's currently getting paid, would be depth in defence.


Hagglund

Young, energetic, enthusiastic great guy. 23 next April (Yes, he's 8 months older then Henry) Has the basics, needs to work on his fitness and his tools. Has never played this many games in his career and it showed with mental mistakes starting to happen in July. Attacks in the air ferociously (NYRB marked him with their best guy). Can get his feet into attacking positions not usually possible for a CD. Not a great passer yet. Makes passing mistakes each game. As a stay at home RB, not a threat in attack but he can cross the ball decently enough. One of our best draft picks.

Should he be protected for the expansion draft? - N/A (First contract)

Probable Position Next Season - 3rd CD, learning from the starters

Where would I like to see him? - 3rd CD, learning from the starters


Richter

Backup. Minimum wage player. Not good enough to start, not good enough to make the game day squad unless there are injuries or for a cup. 26 next season so still might pick it up a bit but unlikely. Loaned out to see if he can get better.

Should he be protected for the expansion draft? - No

Will he be picked up in the expansion draft? - unless they need to get a player to fill a slot and be under the cap, doubtful

Probable Position Next Season - On Loan with the Toronto FC USLPRO team. Last year of his contract.

Where would I like to see him? - getting better somewhere and if he ever has to get on the pitch, we have issues

Full Backs

Morrow

IMHO, our MVP this season. Solid. Just turned 27 this month. Most consistent guy on the field for us. Rarely beaten. Always in position. Gets wide down the left and defences have to adjust. Tends to be a bit focused on certain channels in attack. Crosses are dangerous but needs to get better. Defensively solid. Good enough in the air. When he was out, we felt it.

Should he be protected for the expansion draft? - Yes

Probable Position Next Season - Starting LB

Where would I like to see him? - Starting LB with a better set of players in front of him to open up more spaces to attack.


Bloom

Some like him, some can't stand him. Turns 27 next month (basically same age as Morrow). Cheap but due for a better contract. Good attitude. Works hard. Loses focus when attacks coming in from the left and lets people get behind him. Good enough pace. Always wants to get going down the right. Positioning a bit wobbly. Good enough in the air but never going to be a threat.

Should he be protected for the expansion draft? - No. As much as I like him compared to what we have had, we need better crossing from the flanks and positioning from that right side.

Would he be taken in the expansion draft? - Yes, Orlando would be better for his new family.

Probable Position Next Season - Starting RB Orlando

Where would I like to see him? - Starting RB Orlando



Morgan

Remember him? He only turns 24 in January but he seems to have been here forever. So much promise. Hasn't gotten there yet. Not sure he will. He's fallen down the depth chart. A bit expensive at $80K, given what he provides. When Morrow got injured, Morgan did not replace him. Likes to bomb forward. Makes bonehead plays every game. Not a great crosser of the ball. Not good enough in the air for his position. A backup now.


Should he be protected for the expansion draft? - No.

Would he be taken in the expansion draft? - No A bit expensive for a backup

Probable Position Next Season - Contract not renewed

Where would I like to see him? - doing well in NASL, which is more likely his level.

[Areathrasher]

What'd he say? And what gave you that impression?

Me: Will you be here next year
Henry: We will see

Given the fact he jumped in with 113 and was seen with tears in his eyes after the game, id say he is gone.

[OgtheDim]

I am actually leaning towards keeping Vanney and giving him time .. that said http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holger_Osieck is available. Played and managed in Canada .. whether that translates to success in MLS however.

That sexist remark puts him offside for me.

Beyond that, apart from a manger having to learn the league on the fly, again, Australia thought so much of him, they let him go after he got them qualified for Brazil.

And, he's 66. MLS is not a place for older dudes to be having to learn this league.

[flamehawk]

That sexist remark puts him offside for me.

Beyond that, apart from a manger having to learn the league on the fly, again, Australia thought so much of him, they let him go after he got them qualified for Brazil.

And, he's 66. MLS is not a place for older dudes to be having to learn this league.

Ahh.. completely forgot about the sexist 'joke' incident, a complete no no from me then.

[Davenport]

Henry is a liability. He's a lovely lad but he's not a good enough footballer. End of.

[Leedsoronto]

Would like to see some of the young guys play at New England, the likes of Mannella, Manny, Q, and fly Hamilton over for the game, let's see what we have and what we may or should have used? The rest can go play golf.

[molenshtain]

Henry is a liability. He's a lovely lad but he's not a good enough footballer. End of.

For the first 15-16 games of the season he was statistically the second best CB in the league after Marshall.

[prizby]

I'm so annoyed with how today went, I decided to get all anorak to get rid of my frustrations.


Apologies for the long post.

Sooooo...here's a few thoughts on keepers and defenders

- sneaking suspicion they protect Caldwell, dunno why because i don't think anyone takes him on his number; I think his defence was more than good enough...this team was lost without him when he was injured and frankly I don't see TFC being able to find 2 guys in the market during the winter capable of doing as good of job as he or better.
- doubt Orr comes back...he's a Ryan Nelsen loan signee; not part of Vanney's team whatsoever
- you actually have to protect Hagglund he is neither GA nor academy grad, so he needs and will be protected
- you protect bloom because if Orlando is on the cards, you make a trade with them and get something back (ie. see who is unprotected on other squads, ask Orlando to take x and trade for Bloom with the promise of them also not taking anyone else), don't just let him go

[dupont]

I think changing coaches mid-season is the worst and TFC always do it. They should have let Nelson finish the season and then either hired a new coach for next year or gave Vanney his chance at that time. As it is now, my biggest worry is if they let Vanney stay for next season and then fire him mid season just like we always do. It's not really fair to Vanney but I'm thinking they may as well hire a different coach now or else I think we will be stuck in this cycle forever.

[jazzy]

I guess this will be an annual reoccurring thread in our history......we should see every year how much earlier it can start each year..

[ag futbol]

For the first 15-16 games of the season he was statistically the second best CB in the league after Marshall.

I like the kid, but I think we'd all agree it's best to move on. He needs a better learning environment, we need a ready right now CB. He gets to advance his career, we get money out of it.

Sucks he never got to see anything but instability in his time here. But I think this is a move everyone can get behind.

[portu]

I understand all the talk about our D but I feel our hardest flaw to solve is the CAM position. I think we all sort of agree that Vanney is shifting towards a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 formation and if you're going to play that way then the creative player in the middle is by far and away the most important. With the D we're looking at getting 1, maybe 2, veteran starting CBs, that we have the assets to acquire for sure, and then if Bloom stays we add a RB to compete with him and we're pretty much set. Getting the CAM we need is waaay harder. There are no players in MLS that we could reasonably acquire to do the job and that means scouting, scouting means time, time means a transfer fee and a transfer fee means DP which you cannot afford to screw up.

I can think of a couple names from SA (Cardenas or Cardona, Atletico Nacional, Colombia) but after that the pool is way too large to pick names and examine their chances of signing for us because we have no idea where else the FO might look.

Here's my thoughts on Cardenas and Cardona

Cardenas can be considered one of the best players in the Colombian league, he won the equivalent of MVP in 2013, and he's only 24 so it'd be like a Gilberto signing sort of. He's never played outside of Colombia, though so it would probably take him a long time to adapt to the league especially considering he's only 5'6''. He's crafty on the ball, provides good service from set pieces, his shooting could be better, excellent passer, really quick. He is the type of guy that gets linked to a crazy amount of clubs every transfer window, some really good (Boca Juniors, Dynamo Zagreb, Sevilla) which leaves you thinking why he hasn't moved. Anyways he's evaluated by transfermarkt at around 1 million so might cost 2.5m considering his value to his club. He's also represented by the same agent as Gilberto.

Cordona's a lot younger at 21 but unlike Cardenas he's 6' so that's a massive benefit to adjusting to the MLS game. He's more direct than Cardenas in that he likes to have a shot at net from 30 yards every now and then. Still a good passer though maybe not as much as Cardenas. He's fast but not incredibly so but he's much better at taking players on. Watching him play he's not the most mature player but that comes with age. He'd also be considered a young DP due to that age so that's a bonus. In addition he was recently added to Peckerman's Colombia side against us and El Salvador (who he played a half and a bit against). Transfermarkt has him at 1.1m but given his inclusion in the Colombia squad and age/potential he'd probably go for 3-4m.

Any more names you guys can think of?

[jloome]

I understand all the talk about our D but I feel our hardest flaw to solve is the CAM position. I think we all sort of agree that Vanney is shifting towards a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 formation and if you're going to play that way then the creative player in the middle is by far and away the most important. With the D we're looking at getting 1, maybe 2, veteran starting CBs, that we have the assets to acquire for sure, and then if Bloom stays we add a RB to compete with him and we're pretty much set. Getting the CAM we need is waaay harder. There are no players in MLS that we could reasonably acquire to do the job and that means scouting, scouting means time, time means a transfer fee and a transfer fee means DP which you cannot afford to screw up.

I can think of a couple names from SA (Cardenas or Cardona, Atletico Nacional, Colombia) but after that the pool is way too large to pick names and examine their chances of signing for us because we have no idea where else the FO might look.

Here's my thoughts on Cardenas and Cardona

Cardenas can be considered one of the best players in the Colombian league, he won the equivalent of MVP in 2013, and he's only 24 so it'd be like a Gilberto signing sort of. He's never played outside of Colombia, though so it would probably take him a long time to adapt to the league especially considering he's only 5'6''. He's crafty on the ball, provides good service from set pieces, his shooting could be better, excellent passer, really quick. He is the type of guy that gets linked to a crazy amount of clubs every transfer window, some really good (Boca Juniors, Dynamo Zagreb, Sevilla) which leaves you thinking why he hasn't moved. Anyways he's evaluated by transfermarkt at around 1 million so might cost 2.5m considering his value to his club. He's also represented by the same agent as Gilberto.

Cordona's a lot younger at 21 but unlike Cardenas he's 6' so that's a massive benefit to adjusting to the MLS game. He's more direct than Cardenas in that he likes to have a shot at net from 30 yards every now and then. Still a good passer though maybe not as much as Cardenas. He's fast but not incredibly so but he's much better at taking players on. Watching him play he's not the most mature player but that comes with age. He'd also be considered a young DP due to that age so that's a bonus. In addition he was recently added to Peckerman's Colombia side against us and El Salvador (who he played a half and a bit against). Transfermarkt has him at 1.1m but given his inclusion in the Colombia squad and age/potential he'd probably go for 3-4m.

Any more names you guys can think of?

Some guys I've been keeping an eye on:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irven_%C3%81vila

http://ca.soccerway.com/players/josef-husbauer/46205/OOPS! Scratch him, signed by Cagliari for next season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Lei

http://ca.soccerway.com/players/takashi-usami/74703/

http://ca.soccerway.com/players/andres-chavez/193778/

http://ca.soccerway.com/players/mbwana-samatta/175962/

http://ca.soccerway.com/players/roge...o-rojas/69429/