Matchday 33: Montreal at TFC 2 pm TSN4

[ag futbol]

This is, again, where I feel context comes into it; he's looking unsettled, again.. but, could that not have to do with the whole Defoe saga?

He might pan out, or he might not; our problem, whether we're talking managers or players, has been a lack of consistency

I agree, in this case, that we *might* get rewarded with some consistency for Gilberto. But in general, I can't say that is a root cause of failure at this club. If I try to sail across the atlantic in a bathtub, then a tubber dingy, then an inner tube, and finally a pool noodle and they all fail, my issue isn't a lack of consistency, it's having a bad plan in the first place.

In the history of this club, there have been *maybe* 1 or 2 times where we had a plan that actually made sense from the outset. One of those times was with Kevin Payne/Nelsen combo. Every other time was basically a hair-brained scheme doomed to fail from the outset. And this year was no different, it was a lot of money masking some very poorly laid out ideas.

And here we are again, trusting two people who might have pedigree - but in a practical sense have no experience and are still figuring out what their jobs require - to run the gauntlet in a market that changes coaches like they change underwear. These guys do not have much to fall back on if things start to go poorly. An experienced coach, who we are financially committed to and extending the proper authority, has a better chance of making this work. And frankly, we're just heading into another period of a lot of turnover here, so why not let someone who's done it before figure that out rather than a couple of guys who are learning on the job?

[jazzy]

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Is he less effective? Urruti has contributed (through goals + assists) to 11 goals this year, Gilberto 12. And Urruti is playing with the 3rd best offense in the league..Urruti is more clinical from what we've seen for sure. I don't know that he's more effective. I would wager Gilberto has the potential to be a far more effective player in MLS with a proper team behind him than Urruti could be.

I agree ,..it scares me if another team gets a hold of Gilberto....how many ex TFC players are now successful on opposing teams?

[Areathrasher]

If Gil does leave, i'd wager alot of money its not within the league, Mexico or back to Brazil.

[jloome]

I agree, in this case, that we *might* get rewarded with some consistency for Gilberto. But in general, I can't say that is a root cause of failure at this club. If I try to sail across the atlantic in a bathtub, then a tubber dingy, then an inner tube, and finally a pool noodle and they all fail, my issue isn't a lack of consistency, it's having a bad plan in the first place.

In the history of this club, there have been *maybe* 1 or 2 times where we had a plan that actually made sense from the outset. One of those times was with Kevin Payne/Nelsen combo. Every other time was basically a hair-brained scheme doomed to fail from the outset. And this year was no different, it was a lot of money masking some very poorly laid out ideas.

And here we are again, trusting two people who might have pedigree - but in a practical sense have no experience and are still figuring out what their jobs require - to run the gauntlet in a market that changes coaches like they change underwear. These guys do not have much to fall back on if things start to go poorly. An experienced coach, who we are financially committed to and extending the proper authority, has a better chance of making this work. And frankly, we're just heading into another period of a lot of turnover here, so why not let someone who's done it before figure that out rather than a couple of guys who are learning on the job?

How was Payne/Nelsen any different?

[OgtheDim]

I disagree with KJ that the formation is the problem. Seattle, LA and RSL use it to full effect. it, however is based on partnerships though (2 CB, 2 strikers, 2 CM) and we don't have that.

I agree with you on RSL but they don't attempt the pivot like TFC has. Beckerman doesn't get forward that much at all. Unlike us who havn't had a stay at home DM all season.

LAG is really a 4-2-3-1 with Donovan going forward - he's not much of a defensive type dude anymore - and Keane sitting in the hole. Seattle pretty much plays a 4-1-3-2.

[lobo]

Inevitable.

Realistically, we were out of the playoffs two weeks ago, but Montreal can still say they ruined it for TFC. And ... without a win for TFC today, the Shitecaps clinch their first ever CCL berth for 2015. Just fookin' lovely.

[Blizzard]

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I agree ,..it scares me if another team gets a hold of Gilberto....how many ex TFC players are now successful on opposing teams?

I'm horrified by the thought of Gilberto being disposed of. Maybe that will go away if we bring in somebody else of quality but as far as I'm concerned, he showed great commitment to the TFC cause and if this is a TFC initiated move versus Gilberto wanting out, I'll be furious with Bez, a man who I've been giving the benefit of the doubt.

[Davenport]

I'm horrified by the thought of Gilberto being disposed of. Maybe that will go away if we bring in somebody else of quality but as far as I'm concerned, he showed great commitment to the TFC cause and if this is a TFC initiated move versus Gilberto wanting out, I'll be furious with Bez, a man who I've been giving the benefit of the doubt.

Horrified ?? That's a bit extreme considering how little he's contributed. For the money he's being paid he should win a game or two.
As long as this team is owned by MLSE we're all fukced.

[MightyDM]

I agree, in this case, that we *might* get rewarded with some consistency for Gilberto. But in general, I can't say that is a root cause of failure at this club. If I try to sail across the atlantic in a bathtub, then a tubber dingy, then an inner tube, and finally a pool noodle and they all fail, my issue isn't a lack of consistency, it's having a bad plan in the first place.

In the history of this club, there have been *maybe* 1 or 2 times where we had a plan that actually made sense from the outset. One of those times was with Kevin Payne/Nelsen combo. Every other time was basically a hair-brained scheme doomed to fail from the outset. And this year was no different, it was a lot of money masking some very poorly laid out ideas.

And here we are again, trusting two people who might have pedigree - but in a practical sense have no experience and are still figuring out what their jobs require - to run the gauntlet in a market that changes coaches like they change underwear. These guys do not have much to fall back on if things start to go poorly. An experienced coach, who we are financially committed to and extending the proper authority, has a better chance of making this work. And frankly, we're just heading into another period of a lot of turnover here, so why not let someone who's done it before figure that out rather than a couple of guys who are learning on the job?

gotta agree with this.

[TFC07]

I have to say is Montreal supporters = LOL. Those guys are bunch of clowns and fake tough guys. All talk, no action. But I will admit one thing: having large amount of Montreal supporters created that derby like atmosphere despite our teams being awful.

As for game itself, what a painful game to watch. Both teams don't know how to defend while offensively both teams can't finish their chances. You add the fact you got nutjob ref who wants to be star of the show, this game had no chance to be exciting to watch.

I hope Vanney isn't coach next year, this guy is way over his head. Bring an experience coach (MLS experience or not) to run this club properly.

[Fushida]

Horrified ?? That's a bit extreme considering how little he's contributed. For the money he's being paid he should win a game or two.
As long as this team is owned by MLSE we're all fukced.

Gilberto's brief hot streak was what kept Nelson in the seat for a few more weeks before the inevitable sack. The guy hasn't got the numbers but he does the right things and does get the chances. It's his first year in a foreign league and a foreign environment. I wouldn't say the same if he hasn't shown anything, but he's shown that he can create and get chances in a team with no system for getting much of anything in a game.

Whether he's worth DP money is another thing, but getting imports that can light up the league immediately isn't exactly commonplace in this league.

[JuliquE]

All I was getting at is that it makes us look like sucks when we're dishonest about what we see.

How do we joke about Felipe faking (after Osorio purposely stepped on his foot) and being proud of Bendik picking him up while we ignore Oduros constant embellishment and dives? I just can't do both. I don't think its ok because we love this team.

I especially hate it at a time when there are many more important things to worry about instead of bad officiating (which I think actually favoured us this year) and opponents faking shit.

We should be more critical of our team when we suck....especially when it's 8 years and counting.

Again...just my opinion but what this club has done since day one just doesn't deserve love from the supporters. They should feel anger and experience fear.

They should be worried that their desire to make more money is going to suffer greatly, as long as our desire to celebrate our teams success is not properly addressed.

I absolutely agree with all you've just said, as I often do, might I add.

I suppose the way I view it is sort of like I do a matrimonial relationship: in a public forum, your significant other might get into it with someone -- may even be wrong, in the grand scheme of things -- but, at the end of the day, he/she is your life-partner, and, in the heat of the moment, you stand behind him/her -- full stop. You might quietly approach them on the matter, at a more appropriate time, later on, to suggest a better approach, next time.. but, not when they're fuming and/or even shortly after the incident, when they're perhaps still venting.

Now, of course, in a more extreme case, if, for instance, he/she is about to assault someone, you stand behind them, all the same, but in a way that just looks to be calming the situation down (for his/her sake), only to follow the same protocols as previously described.

I suppose I just feel like your timing can sometimes be a bit suspect. Having said that, I do understand being angry at those who NEVER see the bigger picture, but I think you would stand a better chance at converting people to your view of things (again, a view I also share), were you to come at them from a different angle (maybe not, but it's your best chance, for me).

[JuliquE]

I agree, in this case, that we *might* get rewarded with some consistency for Gilberto. But in general, I can't say that is a root cause of failure at this club. If I try to sail across the atlantic in a bathtub, then a tubber dingy, then an inner tube, and finally a pool noodle and they all fail, my issue isn't a lack of consistency, it's having a bad plan in the first place.

In the history of this club, there have been *maybe* 1 or 2 times where we had a plan that actually made sense from the outset. One of those times was with Kevin Payne/Nelsen combo. Every other time was basically a hair-brained scheme doomed to fail from the outset. And this year was no different, it was a lot of money masking some very poorly laid out ideas.

And here we are again, trusting two people who might have pedigree - but in a practical sense have no experience and are still figuring out what their jobs require - to run the gauntlet in a market that changes coaches like they change underwear. These guys do not have much to fall back on if things start to go poorly. An experienced coach, who we are financially committed to and extending the proper authority, has a better chance of making this work. And frankly, we're just heading into another period of a lot of turnover here, so why not let someone who's done it before figure that out rather than a couple of guys who are learning on the job?

Don't know whether to laugh or cry at the bold portion, there (did the former; the latter may come, at some point).

I agree, whole-heartedly; my point, despite including managers in the equation, was more in defence of Gilberto.

I agree ,..it scares me if another team gets a hold of Gilberto....how many ex TFC players are now successful on opposing teams?

This.

[Oldtimer]

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I agree ,..it scares me if another team gets a hold of Gilberto....how many ex TFC players are now successful on opposing teams?

You just know he's going to be a contender for mvp if he does.

[FRANKIE65]

My take on the match...Probably Bendik's best of the season. Overall, IMO, a decent effort given by most of the lads. Montreal is playing their best football of the season right now, which, unfortunately, is more than good enough to compete with the squad we had on the pitch.
Highlight of the match...Bendik's passion.
Worst moment...walking out ten minutes after it ended, listening to the Limpact fans singing NaNaNaNa Hey Hey Hey Goodbye....that shit is bad enough in hockey.

[ag futbol]

How was Payne/Nelsen any different?

More or less, it was based on a formula seen elsewhere in MLS. Experienced GM, supporting inexperienced coach, who is a former player in the league. In practice, they didn't like each other and the relationship degraded. But I can see, logically, why that's a plan that could have worked. At least there were no outrageous (and obvious) Paul Mariner / Aron Winter type of conflicts from the outset.

As a side note, how Toledo continues to get games in this league shocks me. I was waiting for the Osorio foul to come online and looks like a yellow at best to me. Same with the Heath Pearce foul. But it all stems from his initially poor / missed calls. Players get angry, game starts to get out of control, and then he starts trouble shooting his own mess.

[Huyton]

Why do I have a bad feeling that TFC is going to absolutely crater in this game? The news of transfers and trades the day before the game can't be good for morale. Good thing that the "All for One" series is over. I can't see how a team disintegration can be spun positively.

It should be renamed "All For Naught"...which is what I was going to put on a two-stick, but couldn't find the time.

[Heart of Stone]

One of the worst pro sports team in North America... on this point there can be no doubt.

I went to 6-8 road games between season 2 - season 6. But now I'm glad the team is so shit as I've saved a lot of $$ the last two season. If they had been good I may have kept travelling to see them. And now I simply don't care about them that much anymore. Sad but true.

[Red CB Toronto]

Looking out to the future, not sure what to expect.

[Pint]

Looking out to the future, not sure what to expect.

this guy was at the game yesterday in the owners box. I pointed at him and he waved, held back but now wish i had flipped him off.

[Fort York Redcoat]

this guy was at the game yesterday in the owners box. I pointed at him and he waved, held back but now wish i had flipped him off.

Oh I can't wait for his call of the next game in the highlights. We can all wait to hear the sour grapes in his call.

[Fort York Redcoat]

One of the worst pro sports team in North America... on this point there can be no doubt.

I went to 6-8 road games between season 2 - season 6. But now I'm glad the team is so shit as I've saved a lot of $$ the last two season. If they had been good I may have kept travelling to see them. And now I simply don't care about them that much anymore. Sad but true.

So shit? 2 seasons ago we finished with half the points we have this year. Whatever makes you feel vindicated I guess.

[Fort York Redcoat]

All I was getting at is that it makes us look like sucks when we're dishonest about what we see.

How do we joke about Felipe faking (after Osorio purposely stepped on his foot) and being proud of Bendik picking him up while we ignore Oduros constant embellishment and dives? I just can't do both. I don't think its ok because we love this team.

I especially hate it at a time when there are many more important things to worry about instead of bad officiating (which I think actually favoured us this year) and opponents faking shit.

We should be more critical of our team when we suck....especially when it's 8 years and counting.

Again...just my opinion but what this club has done since day one just doesn't deserve love from the supporters. They should feel anger and experience fear.

They should be worried that their desire to make more money is going to suffer greatly, as long as our desire to celebrate our teams success is not properly addressed.

It's like some supporters have a hard time with bias as soon as they are disappointed. If one wants to distance themselves from engagement and be unbias that's fine but you will see bias from a group of support every game from every team in the world.

Do we really think that TFC made money this year? 100 million on players with no playoff revenue? We have a thread on their tv numbers so that can't be where they are making it up.

[pdubs]

It's like some supporters have a hard time with bias as soon as they are disappointed. If one wants to distance themselves from engagement and be unbias that's fine but you will see bias from a group of support every game from every team in the world.

Do we really think that TFC made money this year? 100 million on players with no playoff revenue? We have a thread on their tv numbers so that can't be where they are making it up.

that 100 million includes the total salary Bradley and Defoe would make over the tenure of their contracts tho right? If we sell Defoe we recoup the transfer fee and are only out 1 year of salary (6 million). I agree I don't they made money but it is not like they took a 100 million dollar hit all at once this year.

[v00d00daddy]

It's like some supporters have a hard time with bias as soon as they are disappointed. If one wants to distance themselves from engagement and be unbias that's fine but you will see bias from a group of support every game from every team in the world.

Do we really think that TFC made money this year? 100 million on players with no playoff revenue? We have a thread on their tv numbers so that can't be where they are making it up.

I understand that there is biased support for every team in the world. I'm just saying that we shouldn't focus on the stuff like that (i.e. officiating and anything the opposition does) when there are far more important things to focus on.

As for making money…no way. LOL. They lost a shitload this year. All because they invested (turns out very poorly) in signing people that they hoped would both, help the team win, and help keep the seats full. All while keeping the supporters quiet. That's why they signed who they signed. They hoped it would do both.

So yes..they lost money…but they could have lost even more. They didn't make the playoffs. They collapsed…again. But they're somewhat protected because the manner in which they spent catered to the majority of the people they want to keep in the stands.

Had they signed a somewhat aging striker of Defoes stature from any other league on the entire planet there would have been way more negative talk associated to him, way sooner. And by now….there would have been a hell of a lot more talk about changing the manner in which this team is supported.

Of course this is all just a guess on my part. I'm not trying to preach like its a fact. Just my opinion.

TFC front office is not stupid at keeping us quiet and happy. They're just stupid at putting together a team that can properly compete.

Maybe because their goals and priorities are a little messed up.

[Fort York Redcoat]

that 100 million includes the total salary Bradley and Defoe would make over the tenure of their contracts tho right? If we sell Defoe we recoup the transfer fee and are only out 1 year of salary (6 million). I agree I don't they made money but it is not like they took a 100 million dollar hit all at once this year.

I never bet but the closest I'd get is to wager they won't see the return on that 100 mil over the length of those contracts either. But, yes, they aren't out the total sum yet.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I understand that there is biased support for every team in the world. I'm just saying that we shouldn't focus on the stuff like that (i.e. officiating and anything the opposition does) when there are far more important things to focus on.

As for making money…no way. LOL. They lost a shitload this year. All because they invested (turns out very poorly) in signing people that they hoped would both, help the team win, and help keep the seats full. All while keeping the supporters quiet. That's why they signed who they signed. They hoped it would do both.

So yes..they lost money…but they could have lost even more. They didn't make the playoffs. They collapsed…again. But they're somewhat protected because the manner in which they spent catered to the majority of the people they want to keep in the stands.

Had they signed a somewhat aging striker of Defoes stature from any other league on the entire planet there would have been way more negative talk associated to him, way sooner. And by now….there would have been a hell of a lot more talk about changing the manner in which this team is supported.

Of course this is all just a guess on my part. I'm not trying to preach like its a fact. Just my opinion.

TFC front office is not stupid at keeping us quiet and happy. They're just stupid at putting together a team that can properly compete.

Maybe because their goals and priorities are a little messed up.

I agree with the priority you state in the grand scheme of support but your commenting on it THE DAY OF or IN GAME is what comes off as contrary because you're disappointed. People get there backs up and most bias, emotional, during the game. We all know this. Then the highlight/replay comes up and we should be able to grin to ourselves and say "Well... maybe not".

A supporter can be both these things. Bias in-game and reflective the day or hour after.

I'll limit myself to discussing the year that was until we start seeing the changes the club make which, hopefully, will be out of the ordinary and be sooner than later.

[v00d00daddy]

I agree with the priority you state in the grand scheme of support but your commenting on it THE DAY OF or IN GAME is what comes off as contrary because you're disappointed. People get there backs up and most bias, emotional, during the game. We all know this. Then the highlight/replay comes up and we should be able to grin to ourselves and say "Well... maybe not".

A supporter can be both these things. Bias in-game and reflective the day or hour after.

I'll limit myself to discussing the year that was until we start seeing the changes the club make which, hopefully, will be out of the ordinary and be sooner than later.

Ahhh gotcha. Totally makes sense.

I'll stick to in game based conversation. I guess I just find it strange for us not to "see" DeRo (after being fouled) purposely kicking a guy in the stomach area and getting away with it. I get people being okay with it…but to not even acknowledge it…while still complaining about officiating. I just don't get it.

That's not showing bias in my opinion. When Osorio stomps a guy and all we talk about is how Bendik picked him up and took him off the field, it's just weird. Its flat out counter productive in my opinion. How can we assess our issues if the stomp is not talked about? Same goes for Oduro's embellishment and diving.

I get that it's the heat of the moment. But days later we still don't talk about this stuff. All season we boasted about how good we were. How much we'd evolved. What we ignored while trying not to be biased was that we were offered many good calls (penalties that Defoe cashed in on) while never talking about the 18 yard box fouls and hand balls we got away with at the same time. And because we didn't' talk about it back when it was happening, we still openly criticize officiating during almost every game. Even when it benefits us. LOL (like when we got a late foul called in our favour on DeRo which gave us a free kick when, in reality, it should have been a free kick for us with one less intended target in the box because DeRo should have been in the dressing room on a straight red),

Ignoring it from past games skewed our judgement on the team. It built us up a false sense of security. And now we're suffering more from it because we ignored it back then. We did it again during this game. When we're bad so often for so many years, our criticism should be aimed at other targets….namely those wearing the same colours we wear in the crowd.

[Alonso]

Ahhh gotcha. Totally makes sense.

I'll stick to in game based conversation. I guess I just find it strange for us not to "see" DeRo (after being fouled) purposely kicking a guy in the stomach area and getting away with it. I get people being okay with it…but to not even acknowledge it…while still complaining about officiating. I just don't get it.

That's not showing bias in my opinion. When Osorio stomps a guy and all we talk about is how Bendik picked him up and took him off the field, it's just weird. Its flat out counter productive in my opinion. How can we assess our issues if the stomp is not talked about? Same goes for Oduro's embellishment and diving.

I get that it's the heat of the moment. But days later we still don't talk about this stuff. All season we boasted about how good we were. How much we'd evolved. What we ignored while trying not to be biased was that we were offered many good calls (penalties that Defoe cashed in on) while never talking about the 18 yard box fouls and hand balls we got away with at the same time. And because we didn't' talk about it back when it was happening, we still openly criticize officiating during almost every game. Even when it benefits us. LOL (like when we got a late foul called in our favour on DeRo which gave us a free kick when, in reality, it should have been a free kick for us with one less intended target in the box because DeRo should have been in the dressing room on a straight red),

Ignoring it from past games skewed our judgement on the team. It built us up a false sense of security. And now we're suffering more from it because we ignored it back then. We did it again during this game. When we're bad so often for so many years, our criticism should be aimed at other targets….namely those wearing the same colours we wear in the crowd.

Have to agree.

Complaining about the officiating is pointless because it's equally awful for every team in MLS.

The focus should be on what TFC does or doesn't do.

The reffing is a side show and even's out over the course of a year.

[Carts]

Have to agree.

Complaining about the officiating is pointless because it's equally awful for every team in MLS.

The focus should be on what TFC does or doesn't do.

The reffing is a side show and even's out over the course of a year.

The biggest side-show on Saturday was the top-corner of 119!

EPIC TIMES! Shit result...