Any management change (but not necessarily a coaching one) would require this team be blown up and not be competitive until 2017.Originally Posted by TFC07
Hands up anybody willing to wait through 2 more seasons of not getting to the playoffs?
I hear what you are talking about what this team should do infrastructure wise. But blowing up this team now is exactly what people have said TFC has to stop doing.
Realistically and honestly, I don't believe there is a suitable attainable experienced guy out there for TFC to get IMO.
First team is going to be blowed up this off-season anyway! It doesn't take couple of years to get into the playoffs. DC United this year is proving that it only takes a good off-season to turn things around.
Right now, TFC lack of leadership and experience is what's holding this club back.
This is why we need to look outside the league to find that guy. This whole MLS experience is nothing but BS excuse to keep hiring rookies who played in MLS one point in their careers or people inside MLS circle (old boys club).
I'm on the fence, as well.
When Vanney was appointed, we were skidding out of control, and in turmoil, off the pitch. With a quick turn-around, he was maybe afforded ONE normal day's training to implement his playing philosophy, with the rest of the time spent on recovery. Needless to say, he stood little chance at succeeding; three games in a week should normally not mean the end of the world, but that's when you've had up to that point in the season to acclimate the squad to your system. You sometimes get a "new coach bump," as the players raise their game, in a bid to make a good first impression.. but, just how much they would have in the tank, with which to do so, having played only a couple days before facing Philly, is questionable; an unfavourable, if predictable, result left a mountain for Vanney to climb, as he continued to try and get everyone to buy into his methods.
Of the eight games under Vanney, he's had similarly quick turn-arounds for four of them.. so, half of what is already a small sample size must be taken with a HUGE grain of salt (not completely discounted, mind). Factor in that two of those four games came straight away, and how the inevitably negative results sink the team deeper into a funk, and it HAS been hard on him. That said, he's rarely one to whine and give excuses, which raises an intriguing point: if you've got a fiery manager (as some are calling for), usually it comes with the excuses ("us against them" mentality; see Nelsen).. whilst one more even keel will tend to accept more of the responsibility; the latter description suits Vanney more, but he's exploded on the sidelines, a time or two.. which leads me to believe he's the right balance, between the two (I don't buy into how some are suggesting he's lifeless, at all).
In the past, when new coaches would offer up their analysis of what needs work, it always seemed vague and about saying the right things. Vanney actually seems to have a crystal clear idea of what's needed, without all the gimmicks. For me, one and two of the pieces that suited Nelsen's more counter-attack driven style are limiting Vanney's ability to curb things his way -- that, and, of course, having had such a limited time to work with the squad (no pre-season being a huge factor, as well). I wouldn't revolt, were we to hit a home-run with his replacement.. but, I feel like Vanney's shown enough to have me curious to see what he can do, next year.
What about former Montreal Impact coach Marco Schällibaum? Even though his time at Montreal didn't end on the best of terms, I liked the style of play that he brought to Montreal and thought he was pretty decent.
Sometimes all you get in life is an 10 game audition.
I'm 100% ready to move on, but only as part of something bigger and somewhat thought through.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
The track record of foreign coaches in MLS speaks for it's self.
The guy is a lunatic, no thanks.
For a lot of people, Bruce Arena would be a home-run appointment.
Worth noting that he has gone out of his way to sing Vanney's praises.
How so?
He's not called the swiss volcano for nothing.
Was sent off numerous time and gave many a wild press conference.
Not that he would necessarily be the best candidate but he got montreal to play some decent soccer.
There is no reason to believe this team is getting blown up off season.
And the DCU example actually points to stability of a coach after a bad season. That and their turn around is the outlier. Most teams that bad get to where we are.
Is it any coincidence that the teams with the most coaching changes are TFC and CHivas?
There is something to be said for consistency, particularly when some of the most successful teams in this league right now are coached by former MLS players who went through growing pains: New England, KC, Dallas, New York, Columbus....
I don't think following the lead of teams that have had success is "cheaping out." It's recognizing there are distinct challenges to manage in this league, a distinct playing style based on NA player developnment.
Keeping a coach for the sake of continuity is stupid. You must believe that the coach has the potential to turn it around next season. Ben Olsen would have been fired in any other team. He did prove that he can do the job, because DCU 2012 had a decent season, plus US Open Cup in 2014. Though a lot of people think DCU kept Olsen because he's a DCU legend, which I'm sure was part of reason why Olsen didn't get fired.
I've yet to see that Vanney has that same potential so far, though he does talk a good game. Show me something during the games, Vanney.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Just my personal opinion but I want Vanney gone. He has done nothing to earn my respect other than talk a good game. He seems more intelligent than nelson both technically and tactically, however he is just another inexperienced deer caught in the headlights and in way over his head for the TFC coaching role. I think he has potential for a head coaching position down the road but his simple lack of experience is damning. It is not Vanney per se, I believe that TFC needs a far more experienced coach by this point. The fans deserve it and the club is badly in need of it.
We were in full crisis mode before this season began and yet the club continue to appoint inexperienced managers that are a gamble at best. If management has finally realised we need much better quality players, a system, and dedicated club structures, then why not, after this shit show of an end to the season, do they not learn we need a quality manager as well?
I reject the argument others on here are saying that young inexperienced former players become coaches are OK and worth a shot for next season for TFC simply because they exist in the rest of the league. I think a lot more people need to look at the specific history of what our failure in the league represents: what works for other clubs in MLS has very rarely worked for TFC. The club has tried in vane to emulate other clubs and do "as MLS does" in their darkest hours, searching for answers.
This has failed for TFC. We need to stop looking at other teams for the answers as well. Our solutions for next season need to be based upon the clubs own reasons for failure. Our own problems of the past need to be what we focuses our solutions for next season. And, correct me if I am wrong, most people on here seem to have a good knowledge of what those are. Why does management continually try to make TFC like the rest of the league. TFC are a very different club than most in this league and need to implement solutions based upon our own history. For better and worse, TFC has never been a club that fits the mould in MLS.
I also argue this because I believe that we need a head coach whom is experienced enough that he can handle the pressure of absolutely having to make the playoffs next season. Handling the history of failure is hard for any TFC coach and I think it actually inhibits our managers. I can only imagine the mental strength needed to handle that kind of specific historical failure must be a full time job our coaches have to deal with. Someone who is used to much higher stakes outside of MLS would be advantageous.
For TFC the time for growing pains and patience with living with the madness of continually repeating the same errors time and again is over. It should have ended after season 7 concluded. We have had enough time to learn from our own failures. I cant imagine what kind of dire straights the club will be in if we miss the playoffs again next year.
Ownership and management owe us and the team more than this bullsh$t. Keeping Vanney is just insulting to me. Surely most people should have learned that keeping a coach, no matter how bad they are, for sake of consistency is just lunacy as well. It may have worked for some other teams, but again, has failed repeatedly for TFC. If that was the case, we should have stuck with Nelson. How many more seasons will fans be forced to endure failure and excuses once more while TFC attempt to learn the lesson that this team, in this city, under this organization, with our specifics of failure need a far more intelligent, capable, mentally strong and experienced coach?
Keeping Vanney is just another case of MLSE gambling with supporters money and good faith.
You mean like coming back from 2-0 down against Portland, or scoring five set piece goals in two games?
How on Earth do you think we've followed the MLS blueprint? About the closest we got was Preki. All of the teams currently being coached by the young, inexperienced for MLS players that you decry are winning teams. And foreign coaches, experienced or not, do not have a great record in this league (with the exception of Octavio Zambrano). Carlos Queroz flamed out at NY; Gullit flamed out at LA; Winter, Johnson, Carver and Nelsen flamed out here.
Just for once, I'd like a team that will mostly be made up of Americans to be coached by someone familiar with the American game. It seems to be working everywhere else, but apparently "evidence of efficacy" isn't a solid argument when the pitchforks are out.
how about always coughing up the first goal, and the players still suffer same problems as before? Team comes out not mentally prepared.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
This current TFC team is American as you get (both on-field and off-field), but they simply haven't perform.
Problem isn't the players (talent is there), it's coaching and lack of soccer people running the club that is issue.
MLS is quickly turning into other soccer leagues around the world that we got clubs spending money to win games while salary cap keeps on increasing. So using MLS 1.0. coaches in the past as evidence for foreign managers not working in MLS is useless.
They aren't all MLS 1.0 coaches tho. Only Queiroz is.
Without doing any research, John Spencer, Colin Clarke, and Hans Backe all come to mind.
Seeking a GM type who knows the league, knows his football, has contacts, .... Steve Nicol.
fwiw... I've got zero confidence in Bez & Vanney.
Last edited by Sullivan; 10-16-2014 at 09:29 PM.
Agreed. Changes are coming.
Well the good news is: the amount of staying power he has, he's likely match the tenure of an average TFC coach.
We don't want any part of this guy. He is a disaster on all levels.
Moderator
I agree. Well.... he may not be that callous.Nah, I think he's laughing from his junior academy office and saying "another one bites the dust" each time a head coach is hired then fired.
But I also agree that Dichio probably has no intention to be ever be 1st team coach. Why would he? He's seen this club from the inside for 8 years now. He knows how many coaches and managers have come and gone.
I know this is a response to a post from a while back, but just had to throw in my two cents.
Last edited by Cashcleaner; 10-17-2014 at 12:50 AM.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
TFC's motto.
None of those names fill me with any more confidence than Bez or Vanney do.
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