I likely did the worst thing possible after the NYRB game... i calculated roughly how much i spent on this team this season. To put it mildly it was a stupid number, made me question my investment and general thought process for about 15 min. I will be returning next season and the one after that etc because i enjoy it and it is feasible for me to do so.
After years of waiting for supporters section seats to open up, I finally put a deposit down on season seats - even though they likely won't be in the south end. I'm hoping to score some of the new seating on the east side, under the roof; I want to be the first one in those new seats.
My deposit came about a week ago, when our playoff dream was much more in tact, but our recent collapse doesn't deter me. As I have stated in another post, I truly believe we can make the playoffs next season. Our roster doesn't need a huge overhaul, I'm happy with the majority of our squad, but the dressing room drama and morale issues have to change; this is what's holding us back from being successful on the pitch.
I was one of the first to rebel and to give up my seasons, in year 5, I had enough, it was clear to me that they were not ready to do what was needed to win and to build a serious team. I am very disappointed this season, because I feel this is a team that should have made the play-offs. However, I can see that we are in the right direction.Originally Posted by ensco
Having said that Venney staying is something I would have a very hard time with, he was a a gamble, he was given an opportunity, he squandered it, he needs to go. Otherwise we are back to the same old.
I respectfully disagree. Kreis, Olsen, Heaps. All failed out of the gate, all had bad full first seasons, all came from the same kind of background and approach as Vanney.
Unlike Nelsen, Vanney has a class 'a' licesne, has run RSL's academy; when he was with the Galaxy, Arena said he'd be a coach someday. He has a good temperament, has called it straight.
Yes, he's on a learning curve. But I'm tired of trying to go for instant results; I've seen appointing a smart young former MLS player work time and again now, and nothing we work has tried. So we do what? Bring in David Moyes in the offseason? Not bloody likely; it'll be Ruud Gullit all over again as he learns the league and the differences.
Do we bring in a formerly successful MLS coach like Octavio Zambrano? I wouldn't object. But there's always the risk that the MLS game has changed too dramatically, due to increased spending and a wider outreach for players, and that at an advanced age, an experienced coach doesn't have the same hunger he once had.
Vanney is a risk for a bunch of obvious reasons. But he also very much fits the pattern of young coaches who've managed, over the course of a couple of seasons, to build winning teams in D.C, New England, Salt Lake. Vanney strikes me as having the same kind of character as Olsen and Heaps; maybe not as strong willed as Jason Kreis.
^ But what has he done in his time as head coach of TFC, to show you that he should be given a chance?
I would just like to see for once, a coach with experience and building teams and winning. Vanney may end up being the guy. But what has he shown us as the head coach of TFC that he is? [ That is not a rhetorical question] has the team been significantly better then under Nelsen? I know that when the rubber hit the road he was not able to get the team to come out at its best, and tactically there has been nothing truly interesting or promising. So why give him a chance, other then for the fact, that he has a good background? [Again these are not rhetorical questions]
I would also like to see a manager to teach TFC to help the team grow. But can we not find one that has done it before at a similar level, if not higher?
Like I said, how many people would have confidence after Vanney blew it? Would people be willing to give Vanney a second chance? I honestly think Vanney will turn out to be a decent manager in MLS. But we're looking at another 2-3 year project and I don't know if most of the fanbase will have patience. Too many variables right now to think if this team will make the playoffs next season. He sounds like a good tactician, but he's not getting the players motivated.
Vanney is on a course to get a license from French FA (along with Dichio), so he'll be very qualified in that regard.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
My gut tells me Bob Bradley may be the guy. What do you think?
There aren't that many good MLS 2.0 managers. At least proven to the degree that'd satisfy most people IMO
Unless TFC goes for slam dunk, Vanney is probably just as good as manager as any to give a chance, considering most of MLS 2.0 managers are rather young and inexperienced.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Good MLS 1.0 manager. Has better pedigree than many, but MLS has changed so much since last he coached in it.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
^ I know him only for his work with the national team, and from what I have seen, he got his players to stay organized focused, and to over achieve. I think this is what we need here.
The only way I will consider re-entering the STH market is if the new seats are priced around the level of $250-$400 season. That's pretty much the only price point that makes sense to me now. I dropped seasons 3 years ago (lower 110) and figure I've saved around $3.5K with what I have spent vs what I would have spent. Granted I have not been to anywhere as many games as I would have with seasons but I get to enough to keep me happy. I made it out to 6 games this year and the only one I paid face value for was NY and that was only because my Dad wanted a decent seat.
They won't get me with free jerseys, scarves, toques or away game tickets. Get the right number on those new seats and they have a real chance of getting me back. TFC went for it this year. They failed, but at least they went for it. I'll give them credit for that.
I also think a foreign manager used to working under a Director of Football, that he is not mainly in charge of player management or recruiting can work in MLS. Esp those used to working in low budget teams and lower talent level.
Not advocating Marco Schallibaum, because he's a volcano, but Schallibaum failed because Nick de Sanctis sucked at getting the right players for Montreal. If a manager only had to worry about matchday preparation and let someone else deal with the intricacies of MLS rules, I think it can work.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
they want to raise prices...they kept delaying ticket renewal hoping they'd be in the playoffs to spring the invoice on us
I see Bradley as a GM, not as a manager.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Bob Bradley isn't coming back to MLS until he knows how far he can go in Europe. He wants to do well in Norway to put himself in a position for a job in a bigger European League.
Thats still a few years off.
they WILL raise IMO. MLSE is not an organization that eats it's own losses, we're paying for all this spending of theirs, one way or the other. they just need to find their marketing angles before we're going to get that hit. they have the stadium expansion, now they just need to the roster changes (Defoe out, new DP in) and then we'll get that (quietly announced) price hike.
they know the following two things:
1) there's a group of people that will mostly come back, raised prices or not. quadruple the prices, who fuckin cares. toronto sports fans are loyal forever, this is their empire, they know it.
2) there's a group of people who will only return if this team is actually winning regularly, raised prices or not. these types are the "haves" in toronto. those who make more than enough coin and just want to be at the "hot" event. so price really doesn't matter here.
so............why not just raise em? won't make a difference one way or another. their results is what will push tickets where they need to. we can't hate them any further, so what damage is a price hike going to cause? none.
If we look at Jason Kreis' coaching trajectory, RSL went 6-15-9 in 2007 when he replaced John Ellinger after he was fired a couple of weeks into the season. RSL went on to a record of 10-10-10 in 2008 and in 2009 went 11-12-7 and won the MLS Cup. They never won less than 15 games a season for the remainder of his tenure. If I knew that Vanney would lead TFC to the MLS Cup in 2016, I'd keep him.
Jason Kreis didn't inherit a team that was expected to make the playoffs. He doesn't get a mulligan for being Tim B's late season guy. (esp if you blame Tim B partly for not making the playoffs)
Is 10 games enough to get an idea about the manager? Because I've seen some positives, but the negatives are quite baffling from Vanney. Lack of defensive intensity or organization. And picking Kyle Bekker in critical games. The team doesn't look organized at all, like they are still getting used to Vanney's ideas and caught hopeless between Nelsen's system and Vanney's system
In my eyes he's just as tainted as Tim L, Tim B as the team that failed to bring playoffs.
Last edited by Yohan; 10-13-2014 at 08:30 PM.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
The reality just kicked in with this post.
You're right, we can whine and bitch all we went because end of the day majority of us will still renew our tickets no matter what.
We all know MLSE is going to sign another DP and market hell out of BMO field expansion to sell tickets for next season.
But the organization has to make restitution for promising the playoffs and not delivering. To raise prices on a product that has not delivered in the past is not the way to gain sales. They must realize that they are perilously close to killing this franchise beyond the hardiest supporters. I'd go for a loss-leader position on ticket sales - raise prices slightly on the lower-end tickets and lower prices on the higher end. Bring in another DP that can be both a recognized name and fit into one of the positions that TFC needs to fill on the field.
They've lost me. Going to the stadium has become a joyless exercise. Arrive in expectation of disaster and spend the next two hours being stared at by hostile and bristly security people. Never felt like a welcome guest. More a mistrusted intruder. Haven't bought a single piece of merchandise since year one. Other than the odd coffee on cold game days/nights, haven't bought a single item from concessions since year two.
Just had enough of putting up with an organization - MLSE - that has never displayed any brains or smarts or soul when it comes to running TFC. Well, the season ticket scarves were a good idea. At first. Haven't worn this year's once. Never will now, it's cloaked in failure.
Now, it's quite clear that MLSE don't give a damn about the team or the game. Not with the BMO expansion going on. It's all clearly aimed at putting the Argos in there soon. The pitch will be a lumpy, bumpy mess and we might as well get out the West Ham/Stoke City/Bolton Wanderers playbook and prepare for long, hopeful hoofs up the pitch to the big fella. Mind you, that'd be an upgrade to watching headless chickens like Jackson and Odura run good balls into senseless turnovers in midfield.
Plus, with all the construction going on at the CNE grounds, the whole area is about to be built up and we will lose convenient parking/tailgating places.
I'm looking to spend the ticket money on a new Taylor Made stiff-flex driver and an old Acushnet flat blade putter. Golf may always frustrate me, but I'll never question myself for buying a greens fee. I won't question myself when I decline the renewal offer.
And I'll have no trouble finding cheap tickets on a whim if I occasionally decide to take in a game or two down the road.
Last edited by greatwhitenorf; 10-13-2014 at 09:00 PM.
I will renew for sure. Supporter for ever. However, I feel they should have made Vanney interim coach since he had little experience. After watching the team under his guidance he should be rotated back to development and get an experienced top level coach.
i'm likely going to watch next year in HD. All the games are free.
i want to support the players still, but don't want to give another cent to MLSE. with the expansion, tickets will be easy to get (and maybe freebies) for games i want to cherrypick.
Renew? People still have them?
I'll be renewing but I don't know whether or not I'll be using them. If ever again even. I hoping to leave in January for an internship with the UN. I'd return by June but I'm off to start my PhD in September unless a miracle job offer comes through.
This is my view, as well.. but, if I'm being fair, for six of those ten games, Vanney has almost no preparation time to work with. Going from a weekend match, to midweek and back to a weekend match is always difficult, when it comes to a coach trying to impress upon a struggling side his way of playing -- more so, when there's been as much turmoil at the club as there was when he'd been handed the reigns. You expect to see busy stretches like this at a big club, but, as a coach, you will normally have had time to ready yourself and the players for it (something Bez might not have accounted for, which builds a case for leaving Nelsen in charge, until the playoffs are mathematically no longer possible).
I mean, right out of the gates, Vanney was given two or three days to prepare for Philly. Now, remember: the first and last session after and before a game, respectively, will always be light and limited; maybe leaves Vanney with one decent day of training, to make any difference. As a new coach, you sometimes get a bump in positive results, as the players look to make their first impressions -- in some ways, I think the players also expect this, and look forward to it, with the change seen as refreshing (having previously been in a rut).. but, that becomes FAR less likely during a congested stretch, as the players simply have little left in the tank, to raise their game with. Now, when the bump in results that was maybe hoped for doesn't come, it has a chain-reaction on the belief of the players in the new manager, making it that bit more of a mountain for Vanney to climb. All of this puts things in perspective, a bit, for me.
Having said that, I'm sure I'd be well pleased if, as you say, we hit a home run on the next guy to come in (ticks all the right boxes).. but, if I'm honest, I won't be committing suicide, should they stick with Vanney, and give him a proper go at it, for reasons I've stated, above.
Now, THAT'S support.
Also: dope avatar! ^^
My gf and I are diehards but we are completely sick of everything wrong with this club. Dissapointed way too often. We wont be renewing unless something seriously positive happens.
I'll be renewing, and I will until the day they bury me.
I supported the Toronto Metros Croatia, the Toronto Blizzard and now Toronto FC. I got on the waiting list before the first game, expecting to be able to get seasons tickets the 2nd year, and when I saw what was happening in the south stand at the very first game, I realized that I had completely underestimated the passion in the stands.
It took a few years of "ransom" packs before getting into a Supporters Section (127) and moved into 112 a couple of years ago.
Frankly, I love being in 112. The passion, the camaraderie, and (mostly) there's something good that happened on the field to talk about after the game at the pub. I go to all the games that I can: Voyageurs Cup, CCL, Canada games, even the occasional friendly. I go with my best friend, his girl friend and my son...even my wife joins us on occasion.
At times, it can be very frustrating supporting TFC, but I'm still happy that there is a team to support.
And until such a time as either I'm not here or the team is not here, I will continue to be a supporter.
O, Maple Leaf around the world, You speak as you rise high above,
Of courage, peace and quiet strength, Of the Canada that I love.
Remind us all, our union bound by ties we cannot sever,
Bright flag revered on every ground, The Maple Leaf forever
+1 agreed
Vanney looks like a shrinking violet to me. In none of his matches, all of which had playoff implications, did I see anywhere near the level of intensity we needed to scrap out some points. Frankly, I'm surprised we've picked up any points under him. I don't think we've really looked like winning a single game, even the Portland one. Nelsen at least got some fight out of these guys.
You also have to wonder about a coach unable to get any new manager bounce at all.
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