Defoe and Gilberto.
I believe it is becoming pretty obvious that these two don't like each other. To me I think Leiweke is making Defoe play no matter what, he needs his "Bloody Big Deal" to be on nomater what, Defoe doesn't like Gilberto so Ol Gil doesnt play. Vanney and Bez can't say anything because they are scared, at the end the team suffers, this is what I think, any thoughts from you guys ?
You uh, couldn't have waited until after the game to start spreading stuff about dissent etc. etc. could ya?
Yeah lets revisit this thread in a few hours.
I could have waited that is true.... But it is 3-0 at half, bless the souls of us TFC fans.
my response..fook Defoe before during and of COURSE after this atrocious piece of shite ......don't think anyone can play with Defoe.....and his crown
ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana
This post has me thinking: I wonder if Leiweke can be accused of OVER-selling Toronto, with that contributing to Defoe's not being satisfied.Originally Posted by jazzy
I think that we maybe have built him up to be the second coming, and wooed him over, accordingly.. but, it was always going to be an uphill battle to keep him happy and maintain that standard.
I'd say, next time around, make any DP feel like it's going to be an absolute SLOG of a season; make them really understand what the shit they're getting into, so that any positives (of which there are MANY about Toronto) will be the icing on the cake for whoever we bring in.
Not to condone Defoe's behaviour, mind.
The match just concluded, and one thing is certain.....Defoe is clearly no longer interested.
C'mon now, he's bulking up his arms and shoulders these days. Can't only have leg days amirite?
I don't think it was city that was issue, it was more about the league in general. MLS isn't high profile league that attracts a lot of media attention while quality (especially coaches and refs) isn't that great. I assume Defoe thought he will get "rock star" treatment (like David Beckham), but found out, that wasn't case.
I think most people would favor Gilberto over Defoe if they had to choose one at present..
And i would bet the farm that Defoe will be on another team next season anyways. case closed?
Man, people love to speculate don't they? If Defoe were on the squad that kicked our ass tonight, he would be happy.
Our team is shit, he was sold a lie and didn't handle it well at all. Between him, Gilberto and the team in general, they were the very definition of inconsistency.
But you know who would be great... Laba.
Defoe needs to be in a 2 striker system to succeed.
That was MLS when Nelsen was here.
It's changed. The successful teams are playing 4-4-1-1 or 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 with a spearhead top striker.
There is no reason to believe Defoe would adapt.
Gilberto in a 4-2-3-1 or at the top of a 4-3-3 would be a better choice.
Apologies; I DID make it seem like the problem was Toronto.. and, whilst I DO feel like that might play a role, at times, I don't come close to thinking that it's a major part of it.
I agree with you, and, actually, that's more what I meant; the league and all the BS -- just give them the real, up front. Anyone who agrees, after you've levelled with them about the potential experience, will be a TOP competitor, and will likely find that it isn't QUITE as doom and gloom as they were prepared for.
Defoe's too good for this team. Plain and simple.
Henry was too good for the league when he got here but he found a way to make those around him better without coming across as a prick
It gets me thinking how desperate MLSE was to change TFC that they would do anything to make it work. Defoe obviously has talent and TFC did overpay a bit but would you not look into character of a player before signing him for 4 years. This is absurd, Defoe sold half the seats if not more in Toronto this year, and now he is pretty much gone and they need to fill 30000 seats, at this rate most fans including myself will probably not renew seats. I hope Gilberto won't ask to leave after all of this drama.
I don't think Defoe is going anywhere. He's making 6 million US$ a year. If he goes back to UK he'd make 3.5 million a year max. He'd be walking away from about 8 million bucks in guaranteed money.
Exactly. The status of MLS is what people make of it. Some of the successful soccer environments in MLS are as compelling to play in as anything overseas. Yes, there are few of them and the league as a whole isn't what we see in places like England, but MLS is getting better. Regardless, players are given money, benefits and a contract and if they don't like it, they can go. Henry came here and has done well while shifting his role to being one of catalyst rather than the playmaker. I actually this is where the comparison between him and Defoe stops, because Defoe seems to lack that other aspect of the game that Henry has.
Well... here are some interesting numbers for those that consider this Defoe-Gilberto relationship a source of dysfunction on this team.
After the "fight" over the free kick, the team record is 5-10-5.
Defoe is not a player you can build a team around. Bradley is.
Maybe Defoe can adjust to a 4-3-3 or a 4-1-3-1-1. But, if he doesn't, he's a boat anchor on this team's ambitions. Cause the best set up for Bradley is a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-1-3-1-1.
4-4-2 diamond or whatever doesn't give us enough cover.
^ his contract is another boat anchor. He simply cannot come back next year.
Really? Henry is too good for this league, but he is a tireless leader and class act, while Defoe is a worthless schmuck of a man
Was too good, not is
So a quick comparison between Defoe and Gilberto's stats show that Defoe has played 1529 mins over 19 games in MLS which corresponds to 80.5 mins of playing time per game he has been selected to play in. Meanwhile, Gilberto has logged 1779 mins in 26 games played or 68 mins per game. So Gilberto gets slightly less playing time.
A closer look shows that Defoe has come off the bench only twice in those 19 games, whereas Gilberto has come off 7 times.
The interesting stat is goals scored. Yes, Defoe has 11 versus Gilberto's 7. However, Defoe is 3/4 on penalties whereas Gilberto has never attempted one. Including all goals, Defoe gets a goal every 139 minutes played which corresponds to 0.65 goals per 90 minutes. Meanwhile, Gilberto is much less efficient in that he gets 1 goal for ever 254 minutes played or 0.35 goals per 90 minutes.
However, if we remove Defoe's penalties, and use 8 goals instead of 11 for the calculation, he actually scores once every 191 minutes or 0.47 goals per 90 minutes. So this shows that yes, Defoe has better statistics than Gilberto but I wouldn't rush to think from a goalscoring perspective it's that lopsided.
I should also mention that Defoe only has 2 assists versus Gilberto's 5 - which makes sense considering how we've all noted Gilberto's playmaking abilities whereas Defoe isn't really that type of player.
The thing is, Gilberto's numbers were improving as Defoe's were declining. Throw in that a player like Gilberto has more upside than Defoe due to age and injury history and that the two have played only 530 minutes together all season (!) from an on-field perspective, it wouldn't be seen as a huge risk to go with Gilberto or Defoe in the future.
Just my opinion based some quick number calculations (there are many more that can be done- so even from a stats perspective it's an incomplete story) other factors that we don't know about such as locker room character can't be captured here.
As a side note, I don't like the per 90 minute stat as a complete indicator since it's just an average that doesn't take into account how many minutes players play per game.
P.S. Sorry for the boring talk.
I think its pretty clear what should happen next year and that's selling Defoe, then finding a South American AM DP similar to Gilberto in price.
I don't think another big name DP could save season ticket sales, MLSE just needs to accept we are well past that point.
Laba was the lynchpin. We should be looking for strong DM DP to compliment Bradley. It's not a sexy answer that's fun to debate but it's why our D was stretched. I think Defoe and Gilberto will both be gone.
That's rubbish. Defoe has always played for shit teams - he has at no point shown interest in winning anything. He is content with being the big ego in a small room. He won nothing in his professional career. TFC was an obvious choice for him - didn't even have the chance of relegation...he couldn't lose. A big pay-check and rock star status - that's about it. The failure of TFC this season is his failure - its the characters on the team that drive you victory & he didn't do it.
I agree that finding a partner for Bradley is also important. I'm just not sure if a DP slot should be used for a DM, our poor attacking puts extra pressure on our defensive players, though I would take Laba back in a heartbeat.
I think with proper scouting we should be able to find someone to play that role on non-DP money. That being said, if they really found someone of the quality of Laba (groan) I wouldn't argue with using it. A few teams are using spots on DMs. They really are a linchpin of a good MLS team and make everyone else look so much better.
Still think that DP spot primarily needs to be used on a player that can provide service to the strikers. Whether that's a wide player or an AM, I don't think it particularly matters.
Last edited by ag futbol; 10-12-2014 at 11:36 AM.
I agree, look at Vancouver and how they have done it. They have scouted well. Morales is great, the 2 Uruguayans(especially Fernandez) are useful, laba is solid, and they sign a beast of a cb in Waston at the roster cutoff date who was the man of the match in the most important game of the season for them on Friday. It would be interesting to see how much these players cost and compare that to what tfc pays out for the same positions/category of player. Must be a huge disparity in terms of ROI. I am not even talking in terms of this season either, more about potential. That Vancouver group stays intact and they add a seasoned striker,lookout. What makes me most frustrated is why can't tfc do this?
Caldwell cares and offers some leadership but look at his salary! I would gladly take guys like waston, or bernadez over him at half the cost or two thirds of the cost. Even Goncalves for NE, he gets paid a third more but look what he brings and does for his team in comparison.
Last edited by azorean; 10-12-2014 at 12:14 PM.
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