Matchday 32: Toronto at New York - Sat Oct 11 7pm TSN4

[ag futbol]

A new coach with the tactics to play the MLS game and starting CB, DM, AM and Winger? That's a heck of an off-season shopping list.

A lot of this can't be avoided / should have been addressed earlier. It is a longer list considering the number of key positions, but it's not unexpected.

If they had scouted property prior to this we'd at least have the DM and a winger by now.

[Ajax TFC]

I really want to know why Vanney played Bekker again. I think Vanney was borrowing a page from Nelsen's book with Osorio playing inverted wide midfielder and Morrow push up on attack so on defence, it's 4-4-2, but on offence it's 3-4-1-2 with Bekker as AM.

Except this failed in execution because... well, I don't know why. Probably because TFC just sucks. And Bekker sucks. Did he make one good forward pass before he got subbed off? And his positioning and lack of balls is so atrocious.

I really want the guy to do well, but his footy IQ is so low

I've defended Bekker a lot in the past, mainly because I thought he had real potential if played right. I think his problem is that he thinks he's king shit and doesn't have to run hard. I thought his attitude might change by playing alongside a class midfielder like Bradley and see how hard he works. But clearly that hasn't happened, and if playing alongside an energetic midfielder like Bradley can't light a fire under your ass, I don't think anything can.

[Hamilton_Red]

A new coach with the tactics to play the MLS game and starting CB, DM, AM and Winger? That's a heck of an off-season shopping list.

This drive me a but crazy - there is no MLS tactics..there is football. There is a reason that no MLS team has won the CONCACAF Champions League. I'd say that we should model on Cruz Azul or a team of that calibre. If we aim for that level MLS will take care of itself.

[TFC07]

This drive me a but crazy - there is no MLS tactics..there is football. There is a reason that no MLS team has won the CONCACAF Champions League. I'd say that we should model on Cruz Azul or a team of that calibre. If we aim for that level MLS will take care of itself.

We need a coach who has experience managing football team and won something as a coach.

It doesn't matter if it's MLS experience or not.

Football is football regardless where you played or in this case manage.

Given salary cap is going to increase and we might get more DP slots next year, we can really built quality team that can complete at all levels (League to Champions league).

[Ajax TFC]

A new coach with the tactics to play the MLS game and starting CB, DM, AM and Winger? That's a heck of an off-season shopping list.

Of our four first round picks, I would expect at least one to fill one of those roles, hopefully two. Hopefully there's a good AM or winger we can pick up in the draft. Also, if they're scouting SA like they should be, then we should be able to pick up a young DP AM. After that, we'll have at least three INT spots open (I believe that's what we currently have), so hopefully they're doing some real scouting and we'll be able to sign a decent DM. That just leaves CB. There's a problem we've tried everything to fix, so I won't pretend to have a solution. Pretty easy to say "sign one". Much harder to actually do that, and actually solve the defensive problems. I would say that familiarity is the key we've missed, but keeping the back line the same isn't a solution either since Caldwell is on his last legs now.

The coaching problem is solved by backing a dump-truck full of money up to the guy they want. They can get that money from what they'll save by getting rid of Defoe and replacing him with a much cheaper (and much more useful) young DP

[jloome]

A new coach with the tactics to play the MLS game and starting CB, DM, AM and Winger? That's a heck of an off-season shopping list.

The staggering part is that's much better than most years past, for us. I'm optimistic about next year; I don't know why, except that it's hard to go backwards from where we are right now.

[Yohan]

This drive me a but crazy - there is no MLS tactics..there is football. There is a reason that no MLS team has won the CONCACAF Champions League. I'd say that we should model on Cruz Azul or a team of that calibre. If we aim for that level MLS will take care of itself.

Or it could be Liga MX teams have what 5x salary budget of an mls team and knockout stage is played when Liga MX teams are in mid season while MLS teams just get out of preseason in march. Liga MX teams have a lot more depth than mls teams

[Ajax TFC]

it's hard to go backwards from where we are right now.

I disagree. There are a lot of players that we could trade to other teams for allocation money, Int spots, future considerations, fourth round picks, etc. that would leave us in a worse spot than we are now. It sounds ridiculous that that would happen, but we've done it plenty of times before, and if Temporary Tim gets replaced by another Peddie type, we could end up with another Anselmi type in charge of TFC, which could easily result in moves like that.

[JuliquE]

Did you hear Vanney's post game comments? He said they are done said the team recognized they really needed 7 points from the last 3 games and that they now have to come to grips and play hard to finish the season off right. Pissed me right off, I'm clutching at straws still clinging to the hope that we can win two and columbus loses two yet the manager has given up.

I feel like this is his "Hail Mary"; it's a long shot, but MAYBE the pride of the players will see them play out of their skin.

Completely agree with everything here, except I wouldn't say that he isn't good enough defensively to hold it down, but rather when you ask him to stay back and cover the back line, you're keeping him from doing what he does best which is running hard and bossing the entire midfield. He needs freedom to go forward, which means when you play him as the more defensive midfielder, the defense is left exposed if he makes a run forward and there's a turnover. And like you said, he's not creative enough offensively to be the more offensive midfielder.

The irritating thing is that he is the type of midfielder that every coach wants if they want to play 4-3-3: a player who can make many high intensity runs, can attack, and can track back and defend. And here we have a player who's probably the best in MLS at that, and we have no idea how to use him.

This. He's our Yaya Toure; was regularly played in a more defensive role, and then released, whenever the likes of de Jong would come on and sit back.. though, never required to create everything, on his own, with the likes of Silva still on the pitch.

[FRANKIE65]

I had an interesting evening going to the game with a few friends from New York who are season ticket holders.

Fill us in. Curious to hear how things are for them, and, what they think of our "bloody big mess "

[jazzy]

Good job Tfc. Travelling all the way to nyc and Another miserable performance. now my fiancé is mad at me for being pissed off and depressed because of a soccer game :/

this is shit.....but she has to get to know you......My wife did, and now there are 2 bitchy people after our games.........good to know at least I picked the right one .
.

[jazzy]

This quote speaks to the bigger issue: culture. It's that culture and the thinking around it that sees fires a coach with a team in playoff position and 10 games left as a good idea. (I'm not making the case for Nelson or Vanney here, just the process).

It's that culture that believes pulling the closest coach around (literally!) and having them scramble to pull together a staff in a few days is a preferable option than letting an imperfect, flawed, but not entirely unworkable system play itself out.

It's that culture that sees us with pretty much as many coaches as seasons and none of them yielding a playoff appearance in a league where HALF of the damn teams make the playoffs.

It's why we can have talent that flounders on the field constantly while the 'washed up players' like Keane and Henry make such an impact in places where they have a more sophisticated understanding of how to balance expertise and skill in positions around the team. (The Henry-BWP matchup is a great example).

It's a culture thing. It's the same culture that is responsible for continuing to push the Toronto Maple Leafs as a 'storied franchise', which is baloney when you consider they have been truly competitive in perhaps a handful of seasons since 1970. That's the culture that TFC is in. Until they change that, this conversation about 'maybe next year' will continue.

Sad but true..............

[OgtheDim]

A new coach with the tactics to play the MLS game and starting CB, DM, AM and Winger? That's a heck of an off-season shopping list.

A lot shorter list then we had 2 seasons ago.

I would add another striker to that list. Gilberto is staying, but Defoe likely to leave, as is Moore (who won't be protected).

[v00d00daddy]

I wasnt sure if I should post this in the game thread or the ssh renewal thread but, to be honest, it doesn't fit in either spot.

That being said...people are talking protest or not...renew or not.

I think renewal is a personal choice. To each their own.

As for protest...I think that not having said nearly enough over the last 5-6 years is part of the reason we still suck.

I understand people saying that we should support them win or lose and to a certain level, I agree.

But we're well beyond that. Have been for a while.

This is not a league where we're a small town club that should be happy because we've made it to the top division in our league.

We're not a club that is competing with clubs that can spend astronomical amounts more than us. We're funded and charging like an elite team.

We can argue all day about style and formation. I get that. But as a group that the club should care about (all supporters, not just supporter groups) they should be embarrassed. And we should be holding them accountable. Whether it's by non renewal or game actions.

Cheering for them regardless of what they do becomes part of the problem. The players, coaches, managers and ownership should know enough is enough.

Fix things or fuck off is what they should hear. They should be afraid.

I don't care if a player says that crowd energy boosts them. That's bullshit.

This club should have been held to the fire many seasons ago.

Again...just my opinion lol.

[ag futbol]

I would not keep all four picks. I'd consolidate and get two of the highest quality picks possible + whatever else we can muster, be it established players or allocation $.

[Mark TFC]

Did you hear Vanney's post game comments? He said they are done said the team recognized they really needed 7 points from the last 3 games and that they now have to come to grips and play hard to finish the season off right. Pissed me right off, I'm clutching at straws still clinging to the hope that we can win two and columbus loses two yet the manager has given up.

Honestly, I didn't watch the post match interviews. I usually don't after a loss because it's usually the same mumbo jumbo, and I don't want to relive any of it. But hearing that Vanney has pretty much given up pisses me right off. What kind of a coach says that to a team, especially when we're still technically in the hunt? That must be great on morale... ugh!

[jloome]

This drive me a but crazy - there is no MLS tactics..there is football. There is a reason that no MLS team has won the CONCACAF Champions League. I'd say that we should model on Cruz Azul or a team of that calibre. If we aim for that level MLS will take care of itself.

The tactics you can use in MLS are somewhat curtailed and shaped by the quality of player available. American players make up two-thirds of the league; but they learn technique and the reading of the game later in life than kids overseas. So they tend to have a dominant athletic quality, then the game is grafted onto that.

So knowing the ins and outs of the American approach is important when roster building, which makes it important tactically; there's a reason nearly all teams press in this league, and it's because they know most teams can't pass out of trouble in transition.

So yes, hiring someone who knows MLS makes a certain degree of sense. I can't in all honesty say Vanney is that guy, because there's too much naivete to go along with the positives.

[Oldtimer]

I am done with protests. There have been protests throughout the years, they acaccomplished nothing.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I wasnt sure if I should post this in the game thread or the ssh renewal thread but, to be honest, it doesn't fit in either spot.

That being said...people are talking protest or not...renew or not.

I think renewal is a personal choice. To each their own.

As for protest...I think that not having said nearly enough over the last 5-6 years is part of the reason we still suck.

I understand people saying that we should support them win or lose and to a certain level, I agree.

But we're well beyond that. Have been for a while.

This is not a league where we're a small town club that should be happy because we've made it to the top division in our league.

We're not a club that is competing with clubs that can spend astronomical amounts more than us. We're funded and charging like an elite team.

We can argue all day about style and formation. I get that. But as a group that the club should care about (all supporters, not just supporter groups) they should be embarrassed. And we should be holding them accountable. Whether it's by non renewal or game actions.

Cheering for them regardless of what they do becomes part of the problem. The players, coaches, managers and ownership should know enough is enough.

Fix things or fuck off is what they should hear. They should be afraid.

I don't care if a player says that crowd energy boosts them. That's bullshit.

This club should have been held to the fire many seasons ago.

Again...just my opinion lol.

Another case of trying to get everyone to do one thing. Good luck with that. I wouldn't hold my breath or base my sanity on it. People support differently and I am not a fan of pointing the knives at fellow supporters.

Did someone say protest?

[Sullivan]

Spot on.

MLSE board needs to hire a new CEO replace Tim L right now. Because he'll need at least few weeks to hire TFC president who will need few more weeks to hire his own GM who will need to hire head coach. Expansion/re-entry draft is early Dec. Then need to prep for Superdraft and off season signings. Time is ticking, if MLSE wants to set up TFC for success.

Indeed.

Leweicke's a lame duck.

MLSE should reach out to Alan Rothenberg, ask him to put together a short list of suitable candidates for President of TFC.
No one in North American soccer is better connected to the business of soccer than he.
Bring in the likes of a Bob Gansler, and/or Tony Waiters to help MLSE hire the best candidate.
Start at the top.

[Jack]

This drive me a but crazy - there is no MLS tactics..there is football. There is a reason that no MLS team has won the CONCACAF Champions League. I'd say that we should model on Cruz Azul or a team of that calibre. If we aim for that level MLS will take care of itself.

I think there is an MLS style and approach, for sure. Jloome detailed it pretty well above.

[burlington Red]

I am done with protests. There have been protests throughout the years, they acaccomplished nothing.

to be honest we haven't done protests. Few half hearted approaches but nothing sustained. Compare the protests we have done to clubs like Blackburn a few years back and their revolt against manager Steve Kean and the Venkey family who owned them. To a lesser extent right now Newcastle are protesting against Pardew and Ashley. Protest mentality isn't ingrained in us, it's just the way it is, maybe over time it will, but I can't see it.

[Oldtimer]

to be honest we haven't done protests. Few half hearted approaches but nothing sustained. Compare the protests we have done to clubs like Blackburn a few years back and their revolt against manager Steve Kean and the Venkey family who owned them. To a lesser extent right now Newcastle are protesting against Pardew and Ashley. Protest mentality isn't ingrained in us, it's just the way it is, maybe over time it will, but I can't see it.

It goes totally against Canadian culture, you'd never get everyone on the same page, we're way too individualistic as a culture.

There was enough protest though to get in the papers, so you can't say we haven't done protests. That is a major accomplishment. Long run it didn't get us a winning club.

I didn't become a TFC supporter in order to protest. I like football and I wanted fun. If the "fun" totally disappears, then it's pretty pointless to stay just for protesting. I have better things to spend my life on.

[Jack]

The most effective protesting done to date is by those who didn't renew their tickets. In the end, corporations care about money.

[brad]

The most effective protesting done to date is by those who didn't renew their tickets. In the end, corporations care about money.

Pretty much. This is why prices were reset to year one temporarily. This is ultimately why the likes of Anselmi and co are gone. This is why (for better or worse) we got the bloody big deal.

Has it given us a winning team yet? Nope. But I shudder to think where we would be if TFC had remained the hottest ticket in town...

[azorean]

Pretty much. This is why prices were reset to year one temporarily. This is ultimately why the likes of Anselmi and co are gone. This is why (for better or worse) we got the bloody big deal.

Has it given us a winning team yet? Nope. But I shudder to think where we would be if TFC had remained the hottest ticket in town...

With the way things are now hard to remember when" tfc tickets were the hottest in town".......sad how this has played out.