2015 Season Ticket Deposit

[Pookie]

your a great armchair quarterback...why don't you get argos season tickets...I think they have about 26k avail

Whoa. That many eh? I guess TFC and the Argos will have more in common than just a chewed up turf.

[TFC Cityboy]

ml$e made a major misjudgment right from the start with a price range from around $190 to $1200. Can't be arsed validating exact amounts but I think these numbers are fairly accurate.

Even if you take away the top of the line prices in sections 122/123 and call the top ticket $950 that is simply too wide a range. Meanwhile they are stuck with cheapskates like me in 115 bitching if it creeps above $250 a seat and others trying to relocate down from the expensive seats.
Likewise for individual tickets they range from around $28 to $120.This all without a roof and shitty weather 9 times out of 10.

As a comparison point (ignore the level of football), my beloved Manchester City's season ticket range is GBP$300-800. A much narrower range with most season tickets in the GBP400-500 range. Likewise individual match day tickets only have a price difference of around GBP 5 (CAD 10) between the equivalent of 122/123 at BMO and south stand pricing example GBP 45- GBP 50. This is at a top class stadium, top class football (now at least!) and with a roof that covers all but the first few rows.

ml$e dug themselves a hole from the beginning at both ends of the spectrum as they overestimated the value of the "corporate entertainment" / top tier level and the fair weather attendance that comes with it and the supporters sections. They will feel the need to replicate West stand pricing in the new East stand seats and will find few willing to spend that kind of cash. Meaning mostly empty seats right where the cameras are aimed.

Now if they were to make it a narrower range in pricing they would lose the core supporters section support.

Another case of poor decision making right from the starting blocks.

[FRANKIE65]

ml$e made a major misjudgment right from the start with a price range from around $190 to $1200. Can't be arsed validating exact amounts but I think these numbers are fairly accurate.

Even if you take away the top of the line prices in sections 122/123 and call the top ticket $950 that is simply too wide a range. Meanwhile they are stuck with cheapskates like me in 115 bitching if it creeps above $250 a seat and others trying to relocate down from the expensive seats.
Likewise for individual tickets they range from around $28 to $120.This all without a roof and shitty weather 9 times out of 10.

As a comparison point (ignore the level of football), my beloved Manchester City's season ticket range is GBP$300-800. A much narrower range with most season tickets in the GBP400-500 range. Likewise individual match day tickets only have a price difference of around GBP 5 (CAD 10) between the equivalent of 122/123 at BMO and south stand pricing example GBP 45- GBP 50. This is at a top class stadium, top class football (now at least!) and with a roof that covers all but the first few rows.

ml$e dug themselves a hole from the beginning at both ends of the spectrum as they overestimated the value of the "corporate entertainment" / top tier level and the fair weather attendance that comes with it and the supporters sections. They will feel the need to replicate West stand pricing in the new East stand seats and will find few willing to spend that kind of cash. Meaning mostly empty seats right where the cameras are aimed.

Now if they were to make it a narrower range in pricing they would lose the core supporters section support.

Another case of poor decision making right from the starting blocks.

Definitely!
I believe for a new season ticket purchaser in light grey or yellow (which you won't get anyways) anything up to $400 is reasonable. Think about it, 17 games....works out to $23 and change a seat. Not outrageous at all.
The renewal prices that long time supporters paid last year were a bargain. Yeah, I know, 8 years no play-offs, once again things seem to be going in the shitter...BUT, for less than $15 a seat for professional football (for the most part, lol) I'd take those tickets off your hands in a hearbeat.
Agreed the price separation is ridiculous!!! There will be MANY empty seats next season...even without a price hike in the more expensive sections. MLSE better really think this one through.

[brad]

What drove sales in the expensive seats in the first few years was a high demand on the secondary market.

I know lots of people that bought expensive seats, sold some of the games and the end hit was pretty reasonable for the best seats in the stadium. When the secondary market died and they were looking at footing the whole cost of the seasons themselves - they either relocated to cheaper sections or dropped their tickets altogether.

[ensco]

What drove sales in the expensive seats in the first few years was a high demand on the secondary market.

I know lots of people that bought expensive seats, sold some of the games and the end hit was pretty reasonable for the best seats in the stadium. When the secondary market died and they were looking at footing the whole cost of the seasons themselves - they either relocated to cheaper sections or dropped their tickets altogether.

[Pookie]

What drove sales in the expensive seats in the first few years was a high demand on the secondary market.

I know lots of people that bought expensive seats, sold some of the games and the end hit was pretty reasonable for the best seats in the stadium. When the secondary market died and they were looking at footing the whole cost of the seasons themselves - they either relocated to cheaper sections or dropped their tickets altogether.

Yes. Exactly.

And I suspect that those new customers in the North End, that paid $1,400 for their pairs will be looking at the same equation going forward. Relocate or simply drop out of the race. The economics of buying seasons, unless you are in light grey or yellow, just don't make sense if you can't get to every game.

TFC would be wise to look at a ticket exchange program… a true one… where you can trade in a pair of seats you can't use for an extra pair for a game you can go to… take a friend so to speak. It eliminates the feeling of throwing money away somewhat and is a novel way to get more people to go to games and potentially convert them to more regular customers.

Scarcity won't be an issue in this 30,000 seat vacuum they will build. LA has a program like that for their vacuum too.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Yes. Exactly.

And I suspect that those new customers in the North End, that paid $1,400 for their pairs will be looking at the same equation going forward. Relocate or simply drop out of the race. The economics of buying seasons, unless you are in light grey or yellow, just don't make sense if you can't get to every game.

TFC would be wise to look at a ticket exchange program… a true one… where you can trade in a pair of seats you can't use for an extra pair for a game you can go to… take a friend so to speak. It eliminates the feeling of throwing money away somewhat and is a novel way to get more people to go to games and potentially convert them to more regular customers.

Scarcity won't be an issue in this 30,000 seat vacuum they will build. LA has a program like that for their vacuum too.

Would your proposed exchange deal bring you back to seasons tickets or are you just rooting for the rest of us? I don't have a problem getting my moneys worth out of my seasons. Hope you can get some worth out of getting to games again someday. Your prognosis sounds bitter Pook.

[Pookie]

Would your proposed exchange deal bring you back to seasons tickets or are you just rooting for the rest of us? I don't have a problem getting my moneys worth out of my seasons. Hope you can get some worth out of getting to games again someday. Your prognosis sounds bitter Pook.

It would certainly be a factor. As a father with kids active in sports, weekend games present a set of challenges that makes getting to each Saturday game very challenging.

If I knew that I couldn't make a game because of a soccer (or gymnastics or tennis or golf or other) conflict but could make a game the following weekend and that I could trade my pair that I couldn't use (or sell) for another pair to the game I could make… making it 4 tickets instead of a pair… I would see that as a value. We could bring the whole family or if it was an "adult day", we could bring friends. I wouldn't necessarily perceive that as losing money. In fact, the experience would be positive in that it would be inclusive of friends or family.

I was pretty open in that my decision to abandon seasons was economic in nature. I still wear my worn out TFC trucker cap everywhere… well not to work… but to the gym, golf course, etc. Passion doesn't end but the fleecing of my bank account by MLSE certainly has.

Again though, if I had yellows, I would have renewed as the cost to miss a game would be marginal. Having had med greys, the cost to miss a game wasn't something I was prepared to continually eat. An exchange program like that… like some other MLS clubs have… would get me to think about getting back in.

It's really that simple. I certainly don't need a Jermain Defoe to justify my spend… perhaps you have heard my opinion on that? Just a simple value add for my business. Treat your customers like you want to maintain their business. Forget surveys or Q&A sessions with managers about to be fired. Just a plan to help me receive value for deciding to contribute a good portion of disposable income to the club. It really would be that easy.

[Fort York Redcoat]

It would certainly be a factor. As a father with kids active in sports, weekend games present a set of challenges that makes getting to each Saturday game very challenging.

If I knew that I couldn't make a game because of a soccer (or gymnastics or tennis or golf or other) conflict but could make a game the following weekend and that I could trade my pair that I couldn't use (or sell) for another pair to the game I could make… making it 4 tickets instead of a pair… I would see that as a value. We could bring the whole family or if it was an "adult day", we could bring friends. I wouldn't necessarily perceive that as losing money. In fact, the experience would be positive in that it would be inclusive of friends or family.

I was pretty open in that my decision to abandon seasons was economic in nature. I still wear my worn out TFC trucker cap everywhere… well not to work… but to the gym, golf course, etc. Passion doesn't end but the fleecing of my bank account by MLSE certainly has.

Again though, if I had yellows, I would have renewed as the cost to miss a game would be marginal. Having had med greys, the cost to miss a game wasn't something I was prepared to continually eat. An exchange program like that… like some other MLS clubs have… would get me to think about getting back in.

It's really that simple. I certainly don't need a Jermain Defoe to justify my spend… perhaps you have heard my opinion on that? Just a simple value add for my business. Treat your customers like you want to maintain their business. Forget surveys or Q&A sessions with managers about to be fired. Just a plan to help me receive value for deciding to contribute a good portion of disposable income to the club. It really would be that easy.

This paints me a much better, not bitter, picture. Thank you. I hope you find some yellow seasons sooner rather than later.

Also - The trucker hat, huh? Another peek at the mystery that is the man...

[Pookie]

Yellows or a levelling of the price points.

TFC Cityboy's post should be sent to the FO. The range in pricing is significant and the market is telling them that people want to relocate to seats that reflect value. Level out the pricing and I am sure they would make it up with volume.

[ensco]

Talking about the range is another way of saying that prices in the better seats are too high.

I don't need to be in reds, but I will never come with my family because I'm not paying $250 to sit in halfway decent seats. Not ever.

I also have no idea what the SSH business case is given this expansion. The idea of worrying about being able to get seats to games seems ludicrous now.

[Pookie]

Talking about the range is another way of saying that prices in the better seats are too high.

I don't need to be in reds, but I will never come with my family because I'm not paying $250 to sit in halfway decent seats. Not ever.

I also have no idea what the SSH business case is given this expansion. The idea of worrying about being able to get seats to games seems ludicrous now.

It does.

I think the higher price points were geared to corporate markets that treat these as expenses. Challenge on the corporate side is that more industries are tightening rules on "client entertainment", effectively shrinking the market.

The other market I believe they were targeting was the well off fan who could resell his/her tickets on the secondary market and either recoup the cost or make a profit on certain events. Thereby creating value in holding the season ticket.

Never mind the illegalities of it, Leaf ticket holders routinely post tickets above face value… on Stubhub as an example…. the official partner of the NHL…. and pocket a profit. While the tickets may cost them thousands, they make most of it back. MLSE just needs to look at posted prices on Stubhub to realize that people are breaking the ticket scalping law. I'd suggest that they likely don't care as a) they make a percentage of each transaction while the risk of selling above face falls to the buyer and seller and b) shutting it down would mean alienating those that are currently profiting from the value of holding seats.

Where TFC mis-fired is that the secondary market just isn't there. It was there initially as TFC was a novelty. I believe they misread that thinking that it was sustainable. It isn't. TV ratings prove it. Our experiences prove it. As a result, season ticket holders in the expensive seats end up eating the cost of tickets with no way to recoup or profit like they enjoy with the Leafs.

A price leveling is overdue and extremely necessary. And it might actually help rejuvenate the franchise.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Pook, while resale happens in Leafland more often the majority do not make money from their tickets. What one sees is the holder splitting a season several ways sometimes to afford and hold on to the seats. I have no problem with my price point but I agree with you and ensco on the rest of the stadium being overpriced but its hard to see the existing seats go down in price after a record breaking spending year.

[FRANKIE65]

Let us know how that convo goes!

Sent this email to my rep three days ago, haven't heard back.

I noticed the deposit spot in the TFC ticket manager. I have two problems with it though

#1....you are placing a deposit on something that you have no idea what will be available

#2....this deposit is non refundable

For someone like myself, I'm hoping to get a light grey or yellow (I realise there is pretty much 100% no chance of a yellow)...in other words I'm on a tight budget for a pair of seasons.
Now with the struggles the team has faced, again, this year...AND, the "playoff guarantee" by Tim L (which barring a miracle will not be met) many of us fans believe a ticket price increase would be suicidal.

When do you think more info...prices etc, will be available?

Thanks,
Frank

[Pookie]

Pook, while resale happens in Leafland more often the majority do not make money from their tickets. What one sees is the holder splitting a season several ways sometimes to afford and hold on to the seats. I have no problem with my price point but I agree with you and ensco on the rest of the stadium being overpriced but its hard to see the existing seats go down in price after a record breaking spending year.

I should clarify, I don't mean making a profit. I mean making back some of your investment for games you can't get to.

So, say you buy $1,000 worth of games and $400 worth of games you can't go to. If you can sell those unused tickets at cost, your net price for seasons becomes $600.

[FRANKIE65]

So, just spoke to my rep to finally clear up a few of my questions.

#1 - the non-refundable deposit...yes it is non refundable, however, should tickets not be available in your price point/location...the money can be put toward single tickets/partial packs etc. So, you haven't completely pissed away $100 ($50 for each ticket)

#2 - looks like all season info for 2015 is going to be released in the next four weeks. No wait until January this time.

#3 - Pricing - Not written in stone, but, looks like they are listening to us, and, there will be either no, or, a single digit (4-5%) increase in tickets.

After getting this info, I took the plunge and laid down the deposit for a pair. Yeah, I'm sure there will be plenty of seats available next year (especially with the 8 500 added on) but, there's something about having those two seats when you need them. I know with holidays etc, we'll be either giving some to friends/family or selling about 5 games which still leaves 12 for us to attend.
Anyways, even after another season that left us with broken hearts, I'll be supporting in 2015

[OgtheDim]

A single digit rise?

Should be no rise in SSH ticket prices.

[FRANKIE65]

A single digit rise?

Should be no rise in SSH ticket prices.

Think that was him "hedging his bet" notice I said no, or, a single digit rise. He's not going to commit to no rise until it is official...he'd come off as a liar. I totally agree with you, however a 5 % rise on $200 yellows is $10. My thoughts are if you raise the lower tickets by 5 %, they should lower the more expensive ones. Actually they should drop down the mid greys regardless....ridiculous difference between them and light.

[JayMolly]

So, just spoke to my rep to finally clear up a few of my questions.

#2 - looks like all season info for 2015 is going to be released in the next four weeks. No wait until January this time.
Anyways, even after another season that left us with broken hearts, I'll be supporting in 2015

Thought the 2014 schedule was released in November, however, broadcast and kick-off times were not released until the new year?

Started out as a BIG deal but ended as a BIG disappointment! We will also be supporting TFC in 2015.
J&M

[Bargs7]

So, just spoke to my rep to finally clear up a few of my questions.

#1 - the non-refundable deposit...yes it is non refundable, however, should tickets not be available in your price point/location...the money can be put toward single tickets/partial packs etc. So, you haven't completely pissed away $100 ($50 for each ticket)

#2 - looks like all season info for 2015 is going to be released in the next four weeks. No wait until January this time.

#3 - Pricing - Not written in stone, but, looks like they are listening to us, and, there will be either no, or, a single digit (4-5%) increase in tickets.

After getting this info, I took the plunge and laid down the deposit for a pair. Yeah, I'm sure there will be plenty of seats available next year (especially with the 8 500 added on) but, there's something about having those two seats when you need them. I know with holidays etc, we'll be either giving some to friends/family or selling about 5 games which still leaves 12 for us to attend.
Anyways, even after another season that left us with broken hearts, I'll be supporting in 2015

Thanks for the info! I put a deposit down a couple of weeks ago, glad to hear that I can purchase tickets with my deposit if I can't find the seats I want.

[FRANKIE65]

Thought the 2014 schedule was released in November, however, broadcast and kick-off times were not released until the new year?

Started out as a BIG deal but ended as a BIG disappointment! We will also be supporting TFC in 2015.
J&M

Sorry, that should have read seasons...as in ticket info.

Thanks for the info! I put a deposit down a couple of weeks ago, glad to hear that I can purchase tickets with my deposit if I can't find the seats I want.

No problem. As greedy as MLSE can be at times, I found it weird that they would fleece people out of $50 deposit per seat. As least this way, if you aren't happy with the seasons available you can put the amount towards overpriced singles