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    Default How do you rate the Leiweke era?

    The Tim Leiweke era will be coming to a close in a few months.

    If you were to be writing the biography on it today, how would you rate it?

    Certainly no shortage of moves from Kevin Payne to offseason signings to the TFC/Winter Classic/Argos stadium expansion.

    At the end of the day, TFC may not be a playoff team. May have lost a lot of money. May have reached a new level of lows when it comes to reputation in MLS with respect to player satisfaction. And may suffer worse TV ratings than Vancouver and "Lumberjack Challenges."

    Yet, they have a lot of draft picks going into 2015. Showed that they can at least play some decent football at times and the stadium was fuller at stages during the season.

    How do you rate Leiweke's Presidency?

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    Probably the most exciting era and also the most disappointing. If we miss out on the playoffs this year, it will take a huge toll on this franchise. Well, that was going to happen anyway if Leiweke didn't show up. When the news of Leiweke's soon to be exit came out, it seems like the team fell apart. Wish he was here for the long run.

    Home opener vs. DCU will probably go down as one of the best sporting events I will ever attend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    The Tim Leiweke era will be coming to a close in a few months.

    If you were to be writing the biography on it today, how would you rate it?

    Certainly no shortage of moves from Kevin Payne to offseason signings to the TFC/Winter Classic/Argos stadium expansion.

    At the end of the day, TFC may not be a playoff team. May have lost a lot of money. May have reached a new level of lows when it comes to reputation in MLS with respect to player satisfaction. And may suffer worse TV ratings than Vancouver and "Lumberjack Challenges."

    Yet, they have a lot of draft picks going into 2015. Showed that they can at least play some decent football at times and the stadium was fuller at stages during the season.

    How do you rate Leiweke's Presidency?
    Offseason signing were great. Not gonna lie. Brought a lot of hype back to a dead zone.
    Argos stadium expansion effectively pissed off TFC fans, didn't seem to even move the needle with Argos fans. Therefore a fail.
    He changed everyone but the coach it seems. Nelson was his guy. Therefore some of this mess needs to fall at his feet.
    If Defoe goes, the whole mess of stupidity caused more harm than his goals were worth. Especially if they miss the playoffs.

    Winter classic. Did we really need Tim to get this? Seems like a logical placement to me. Not giving him credit for that one.
    Left Nonis in but somehow hired a bunch more guys to split that job into pieces. Jury still out on his effect on the Leafs.

    Don't know enough about the Raps to comment.

    Leiweke has spit the narrative that he was only ever here short term, everyone knew it, and spewed the corporate load with his whole "culture change". Yeeahhhhh.............suuuurrreeee.
    TFC culture was to change managers, GM's, visions, styles and players. Blowing stuff up once, if not twice a year.
    Seems to me the culture hasn't changed that much.
    Last edited by cmonyoureds; 09-06-2014 at 08:21 PM.

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    Way too soon to say.

    I don't understand the mood of the board at all right now. Who did we think we were? We were the worst team in the league by a country mile last year, I don't care who we added, this could never be a worst to first team.

    We won a bunch of games in the first half but often played like crap and got lucky breaks (both of the first two Columbus games come to mind, also the NY game in May).

    So we have reverted to the mean. We are a middle of the pack team, in the middle of the pack. We need to stop acting like this team was Real Madrid until July, and that the players need to commit ritual seppuku in shame at what is going on.

    Bez and Leiweke have their reasons for pretending we are an underperforming juggernaut, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to blindly go along with it.
    Last edited by ensco; 09-06-2014 at 09:25 PM.
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    Exciting for sure. Tho it seems we have fallen off the wagon it has been a good (short) ride.

    In terms of TFC I think the critical failure was keeping Nelson on when he arrived. You could even argue same thing about hiring Bez. Tim L brought big stars, lots of attention, media hype, ect. Field expansion and playoffs. However he stayed with an amateur manager and GM. Missed these crucial pieces.

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    A complete and utter failure.. if TFC fails to make the playoffs this year.. I don't see the roof being put on... it is two phases, I see it going to 30,000 seats and next year the stadium being half empty again.

    I honestly see can see TFC folding/moving in a few years and MLSE washing their hands of it, and the Argos moving in. In fact I see the Argos moving in more likely now then before.

    Tim cost MLSE over a hundred million dollars that is likely not going to be recouped.

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    the timing of the announcement of him quitting did us no favours.

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    As Ensco said, it's too early for making a prognosis. Wait for two years after he leaves to give us some context.

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    Too early to tell, but if we fail to make the playoffs (which seems more likely with every passing game) this will have been the most disappointing season in our history. There was so much promise at the beginning of the year, now it seems to be turning to crap before our eyes like everything else that has gone wrong with this club.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Way too soon to say.

    I don't understand the mood of the board at all right now. Who did we think we were? We were the worst team in the league by a country mile last year, I don't care who we added, this could never be a worst to first team.

    We won a bunch of games in the first half but often played like crap and got lucky breaks (both of the first two Columbus games come to mind, also the NY game in May).

    So we have reverted to the mean. We are a middle of the pack team, in the middle of the pack. We need to stop acting like this team was Real Madrid until July, and that the players need to commit ritual seppuku in shame at what is going on.

    Bez and Leiweke have their reasons for pretending we are an underperforming juggernaut, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to blindly go along with it.
    Perfect. I'll just do a +1 since you summed up my thoughts exactly. We are still rebuilding.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Way too soon to say.

    I don't understand the mood of the board at all right now. Who did we think we were? We were the worst team in the league by a country mile last year, I don't care who we added, this could never be a worst to first team.

    We won a bunch of games in the first half but often played like crap and got lucky breaks (both of the first two Columbus games come to mind, also the NY game in May).

    So we have reverted to the mean. We are a middle of the pack team, in the middle of the pack. We need to stop acting like this team was Real Madrid until July, and that the players need to commit ritual seppuku in shame at what is going on.

    Bez and Leiweke have their reasons for pretending we are an underperforming juggernaut, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to blindly go along with it.
    I agree though in some ways… the "who do we think we are" question was also influenced by Leiweke.

    Easiest team in MLSE's stable of teams to turn around. Mark my words, playoffs and all that.

    Expectations are high. Set by him. Fans paid up. Hard to then say fans should stop acting as if there are high expectations…. no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    I agree though in some ways… the "who do we think we are" question was also influenced by Leiweke.

    Easiest team in MLSE's stable of teams to turn around. Mark my words, playoffs and all that.

    Expectations are high. Set by him. Fans paid up. Hard to then say fans should stop acting as if there are high expectations…. no?
    We fans (all of us) are used and played to varying degrees by the execs that run the teams ... but I am not sure any fan base was "used" as much as TFC's small band of loyalists was during the Leiweke monarchy.

    I put "used" in quotes because he gave us Defoe and Bradley, and really was trying to do his best for us, in his own way, I don't think he was a fraud ... but TFC's interest was hardly driving why he was doing it.

    TFC being a big deal in a hurry, was a key part of a real estate deal that had the potential to be worth multiples of the TFC franchise. But that doesn't mean that TFC was actually a good team in a hurry, as we all know.

    It's up to fans and players to not be roadkill in the corporate games. We're contending for the playoffs, and it's up to the players (and fans) to change the narrative back to that.

    btw if Defoe will help us and will come back to do that, great!
    Last edited by ensco; 09-07-2014 at 08:37 AM.
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    Something about the expectations thing though keeps bugging me.

    There were people on here who, it turns out rightly, pointed out that a turnaround in points like what TL said was going to happen doesn't happen in MLS.


    DCU might be the outlier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Something about the expectations thing though keeps bugging me.

    There were people on here who, it turns out rightly, pointed out that a turnaround in points like what TL said was going to happen doesn't happen in MLS.


    DCU might be the outlier.
    Most people reflexively believe the suits. It's human nature. They have a huge information advantage. They are impressive performers. They will wreck the careers of media people who will challenge them.

    Most of all, we want to believe.

    Leiweke said it was so, so it must be so.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    I feel like Leiweke sold us a monorail.

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    You simply need more depth to be sustainable in MLS. Expectations were set without the foundation of players. To be honest, they did well given our past history, to secure the players they did. The hard sell and premium paid made an unrealistic timeline and expectation of success. A lot of decisions made were for the short term.

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    Incomplete.
    “Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Most people reflexively believe the suits. It's human nature. They have a huge information advantage. They are impressive performers. They will wreck the careers of media people who will challenge them.

    Most of all, we want to believe.

    Leiweke said it was so, so it must be so.

    The issue is when we don't make the playoffs it causes a greater negative effect, even after spending all this money, being told plays are a sure thing... and then the team falls apart, the coach sucks, your star players wants out, and the whole season implodes just as your are breaking ground to increase the stadium capacity by nearly 8 thousand seats that will be left empty if TFC doesn't show success.

    This leads to a perceived lack of interest (ala the Argos) which makes it a cold ticket, and MLSE is even less interested in spending money... and the team stays in Leaf's territory until the eventually sell or MLS moves the team Las Vegas or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    The Tim Leiweke era will be coming to a close in a few months.

    If you were to be writing the biography on it today, how would you rate it?

    Certainly no shortage of moves from Kevin Payne to offseason signings to the TFC/Winter Classic/Argos stadium expansion.

    At the end of the day, TFC may not be a playoff team. May have lost a lot of money. May have reached a new level of lows when it comes to reputation in MLS with respect to player satisfaction. And may suffer worse TV ratings than Vancouver and "Lumberjack Challenges."

    Yet, they have a lot of draft picks going into 2015. Showed that they can at least play some decent football at times and the stadium was fuller at stages during the season.

    How do you rate Leiweke's Presidency?
    I don't know any other names that could have done what he did here. The Carnival Barker got big name players to stop by this club and as you say we have hope in watching the youth perhaps grow this club into a competitor. As important as money in the coffers and ratings are I don't really concern myself with them.

    If we don't make the playoffs he didn't fulfill one of his most important promises in my opinion. Not that I like playoffs (as you know) but it was a performance promise.

    The stadium business will be the biggest thing to me. If we get it without Argos that's a big win. How we'll fill it is luckily not my problem either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    The issue is when we don't make the playoffs it causes a greater negative effect, even after spending all this money, being told plays are a sure thing... and then the team falls apart, the coach sucks, your star players wants out, and the whole season implodes just as your are breaking ground to increase the stadium capacity by nearly 8 thousand seats that will be left empty if TFC doesn't show success.

    This leads to a perceived lack of interest (ala the Argos) which makes it a cold ticket, and MLSE is even less interested in spending money... and the team stays in Leaf's territory until the eventually sell or MLS moves the team Las Vegas or something.
    Yes. I have argued that this is a possible (probable?) outcome elsewhere. We'll have to see.

    I doubt they'd move/sell the team, but I could see this being a hopeless situation from a fan POV for a long time post Leiweke.

    There are a bunch of things that need to play out with MLSE, Bez, Bradley, Gilberto ... we can only watch and hope right now. I hope that the board realizes that, for the love of god, Leiweke needs to be replaced today, the vacuum is killing us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Yes. I have argued that this is a possible (probable?) outcome elsewhere. We'll have to see.

    I doubt they'd move/sell the team, but I could see this being a hopeless situation from a fan POV for a long time post Leiweke.

    There are a bunch of things that need to play out with MLSE, Bez, Bradley, Gilberto ... we can only watch and hope right now. I hope that the board realizes that, for the love of god, Leiweke needs to be replaced today, the vacuum is killing us.
    And this is why you can call this "era" a failure. He destroyed the club. I'm almost certain that if next year average attendance isn't 25+ their will be no roof. And the Argos will become Phase 2.

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    You can't judge Lewieke until 2017 at earliest to see his impact.

    However, I think people are being way too short sighted here. TL plans were long term investment to preparing TFC in MLS 3.0 era but in short term goal was to put a competitive team on the field while selling out games which he did, everything else falls onto soccer side (Players and coaches) for recent slump. TL only mistake can be not hiring more experience soccer staff, but if you look at other MLSE teams (Leafs and Raptors), coaches there got a chance to prove themselves. So giving Nelsen his chance to prove himself wasn't a surprise either.

    Overall, TL isn't the problem, it's players and staff who failed to deliver in the end. TL and ownership give all the resources to TFC to become a premier team in MLS, but people running day to day operations failed to capitalize on it. Only mistake TL and ownership in the past have made is not hiring a legit soccer staff who know the game and have proven track record.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    And this is why you can call this "era" a failure. He destroyed the club. I'm almost certain that if next year average attendance isn't 25+ their will be no roof. And the Argos will become Phase 2.
    We don't need a roof. We need a good team first. This "vision" thing is going to kill us.

    I think the whole BMO reno is much less of a sure thing then people think it is. Without Leiweke none of it makes sense. (I put that in the BMO thread weeks ago, right after Leiweke announced he was leaving, but got killed for it, fwiw)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    We don't need a roof. We need a good team first. This "vision" thing is going to kill us.

    I think the whole BMO reno is much less of a sure thing then people think it is. Without Leiweke none of it makes sense. (I put that in the BMO thread weeks ago, right after Leiweke announced he was leaving, but got killed for it, fwiw)
    I think a lot of that is because it is supposed to start this month.. honest if by October 1st there is no equipment you know it is dead.

    I think the Roof being put on "hold" would be a sign that TFC is dead in the water, it will get reported in the sports media and will drive more people away. I suspect if something big doesn't change, TFC will have 12,000 or less in a 30,000 seat stadium.

    Tim L Cost MLSE millions that they likely won't recoup for a long time. How anyone would hire him after what he did here I don't know. The Leafs are still crap, TFC is still crap, and now there are optics that will hurt them even more.

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    Where does a kick in the balls rank on a scale of 1-10?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Way too soon to say.

    I don't understand the mood of the board at all right now. Who did we think we were? We were the worst team in the league by a country mile last year, I don't care who we added, this could never be a worst to first team.

    We won a bunch of games in the first half but often played like crap and got lucky breaks (both of the first two Columbus games come to mind, also the NY game in May).

    So we have reverted to the mean. We are a middle of the pack team, in the middle of the pack. We need to stop acting like this team was Real Madrid until July, and that the players need to commit ritual seppuku in shame at what is going on.

    Bez and Leiweke have their reasons for pretending we are an underperforming juggernaut, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to blindly go along with it.
    Except... we're not contending for the playoffs. Contending means we're actually playing in a way that means we could make it. We aren't. We haven't for most of the season.

    I can't disagree more than with this sentiment. This team is, on roster, good enough to make the playoffs if coached properly. Lots of other teams have done it within 18 months of a new coach. This ongoing "rebuilding" statement is a fiction.

    I don't think people are reacting like Real Madrid has crumbled; I think they're reacting like the "middle of the Pack" team you describe has crumbled, and it has. We're NOT a middle of the pack team right now, we're bottom of the barrel. Left in the state Nelsen has left them in tactically and in morale, it's a bloody big mess. And yes, hiring a guy like Defoe might have been part of that.

    I'm not saying don't take him back, or even that Vanney is the wrong guy -- he certainly understood the tactical errors in the last game -- but the only accurate narrative right now is that a half-decent team has been turned into a shit team once again, by hiring the wrong guys above them.

    This team is legitimately maybe three pieces away from contending for a title in this league: another rock-solid CB, an attacking midfielder with explosiveness and maybe one more wide player. If we had that, our other pieces would click a lot easier.

    I think people have a right to be upset. Should they have expected Nelsen to flame out ten games before the playoffs? Maybe, as he had no experience. But we were a better team than this earlier this year; this is NOT settling to the middle, this is falling off the pace.
    Last edited by jloome; 09-07-2014 at 02:14 PM.

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    Poor - big splash and sizzle but no substance and leaves a bad taste in your mouth. We have no depth. You can't blame it on MLS cap rules as other teams are contending with big injury issues and are making do. If you ignore NY and LA who have the big bucks, all the other teams in the playoff picture have had to deal with the same types injury woes but they are winning through it at TFC's expense.

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    It can't be done right now. Firstly, he's not even left yet. Bez may have fired Nelsen but Leiweke approved it!

    If Toronto FC has a good cup run in three years with Bradley and Gilberto leading the way with Defoe's replacement making an impact, that will be as a result of Leiweke's time at the club.

    The stadium renovation is also his baby and is not yet complete. We can judge that when we're under the roof in a year.

    TV ratings aren't a factor. A winning team means better ratings and (as I said above), if Bradley and Gilberto (and Vanney I suppose) actually take this team somewhere, ratings will go up!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Except... we're not contending for the playoffs. Contending means we're actually playing in a way that means we could make it. We aren't. We haven't for most of the season.

    I can't disagree more than with this sentiment. This team is, on roster, good enough to make the playoffs if coached properly. Lots of other teams have done it within 18 months of a new coach. This ongoing "rebuilding" statement is a fiction.

    I don't think people are reacting like Real Madrid has crumbled; I think they're reacting like the "middle of the Pack" team you describe has crumbled, and it has. We're NOT a middle of the pack team right now, we're bottom of the barrel. Left in the state Nelsen has left them in tactically and in morale, it's a bloody big mess. And yes, hiring a guy like Defoe might have been part of that.

    I'm not saying don't take him back, or even that Vanney is the wrong guy -- he certainly understood the tactical errors in the last game -- but the only accurate narrative right now is that a half-decent team has been turned into a shit team once again, by hiring the wrong guys above them.

    This team is legitimately maybe three pieces away from contending for a title in this league: another rock-solid CB, an attacking midfielder with explosiveness and maybe one more wide player. If we had that, our other pieces would click a lot easier.

    I think people have a right to be upset. Should they have expected Nelsen to flame out ten games before the playoffs? Maybe, as he had no experience. But we were a better team than this earlier this year; this is NOT settling to the middle, this is falling off the pace.
    We're not that bad. We're really not. We may make the playoffs with this team. I think it's 50/50. All these eastern teams are mediocre.

    But I'd say the odds that Bez is gone are at least 50/50 regardless of performance this year.

    So god only knows who will be here next year, and in that sense I am not making any sort of "rebuilding" case.

    How I feel about next year ultimately turns on Bradley. If he's happy to be here, and management is happy to pay him the $33M we still owe him, then other players will want to come, it'll be OK. I'l wait and see, same as the rest of us.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    We're not that bad. We're really not. We may make the playoffs with this team. I think it's 50/50. All these eastern teams are mediocre.

    But I'd say the odds that Bez is gone are at least 50/50 regardless of performance this year.

    So god only knows who will be here next year, and in that sense I am not making any sort of "rebuilding" case.

    How I feel about next year ultimately turns on Bradley. If he's happy to be here, and management is happy to pay him the $33M we still owe him, then other players will want to come, it'll be OK. I'l wait and see, same as the rest of us.
    I think his role is outsized to say the least. It's one thing to be an in house lawyer, it's another to scout talent and actually manage an organization. I was always under the impression he was here as the numbers wonk, to prevent us from signing more Mariner-esque contracts.

    We still need that soccer president we talked about in the past. If Mark Cohon comes in to replace Leiweke we might as well rebrand ourselves Chivas Canada.

 

 

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