Match day 26: Toronto FC Vs Philadelphia Union, 2:00. BMO Field

[pdubs]

I think this is pretty optimistic. If we took that core and went player-for-player with any of the top 10 teams in the league would we come out favourably?

No way Dike can be on that list either. He's one injury away from the end of a career and rarely stays healthy.

I think we would. I must stress tho if we have people at the helm that have no idea what they are doing then it is pointless to compare. I would also add Warner to the list. Granted the situation we have him in right now isn't working but he is typical MLS quality. Flat 4-4-2 with Bradley and Warner side by side is no good.

I still say we have the good core. Need need a proper manager to set us up for success. Maybe the question isn't to compare player for player against top teams in the league. Maybe ask how would Arena, Kreis, Porter ect handle this team. I think we have quality.

[ag futbol]

Why is it always that at TFC we can't connect simple passes it seems but when players move to other teams suddenly they can?

We play a flat 4 back line at all times. In attack, in defence. The gap between our midfield and defence is sometimes 20 yards. I can't remember seeing a professional team exhibit these characteristics until the creation of TFC. Certainly not in Europe. Maybe in South America where they don't care about tactics as much but I don't actually remember seeing it.

I see it in youth house league matches but those kids aren't getting paid to stand around like idiots so they don't count.

"Hey Henry, you're going to play CB today. The other team's attackers are going to have a 20 yard cushion between you and your midfield so that they can comfortably get on the ball, turn and run at you. Please stop them every time. If you try to pressure them so that they can't get on the ball and turn, you will not have any back pressure from your teammates to help you. When you get the ball your fullbacks will not push up. They will literally stand perfectly square to you so that they take themselves out of the build-up. Don't pass to them. We would like you to find one of the two strikers standing beside each other 40 yards down field. We don't have binoculars for you, that's why we decided to put two strikers beside each other so you can improve your chances that way. Bradley will sometimes come for the ball, the other guy beside him won't. So ya, good luck."

"Henry sucks."

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but lets remember a lot of the players TFC dumps amount to nothing as well. We can all point to Cronin, Silva, and a few other guys, but we've had more than our share of junk.

I'll use Oduro as the easy example: He's absolutely taking away from the performance of the team. He does not jump into space or provide easy passing options. He plays linearly on the touch line and runs up and down like a headless chicken, rarely tracking back defensively. He threw several balls into the central midfielders today that were absolute hospital passes where we coughed up the ball and PU immediately hit back on the counter attack. He's an absolute disaster. If he plays better for another team, it's because they've got more technically sound players around him than we do who can collectively think for him. But as it stands, he sucks and hurts the performance of the guys playing in the middle.

[ag futbol]

Need a DM, and a CD. Get that for next season and we'll compete at this time of the season.

Bradley did pretty good in the second half when he went bombing forward. Something to build around with him and Gilberto.

This season's done. Defence ain't getting better.

Yep.

DM, CD: two wingers who are speedy enough to cut inside but smart enough on the ball to open up space. I'd also look at upgrading the striker spot since we look toothless when either Gilberto or previously Defoe are not playing.

[MikeM]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but lets remember a lot of the players TFC dumps amount to nothing as well. We can all point to Cronin, Silva, and a few other guys, but we've had more than our share of junk.

I'll use Oduro as the easy example: He's absolutely taking away from the performance of the team. He does not jump into space or provide easy passing options. He plays linearly on the touch line and runs up and down like a headless chicken, rarely tracking back defensively. He threw several balls into the central midfielders today that were absolute hospital passes where we coughed up the ball and PU immediately hit back on the counter attack. He's an absolute disaster. If he plays better for another team, it's because they've got more technically sound players around him than we do who can collectively think for him. But as it stands, he sucks and hurts the performance of the guys playing in the middle.

If he plays better for another team it's because he won't be used in a 4-4-2. No one on this team right now has more than 1 or 2 options when they have the ball. How can we expect someone like Oduro to do anything in these situations? Yes, he's limited. But he would look better in a 4-3-3 where he does not have to track back as much, he has more space to run towards goal (because you're taking a striker out from front of goal), and he has more passing options (hopefully even some combinations with his fullback).

With players like Oduro, you have to help them think as little as possible. They need pre-designed movements and constant options and sometimes they can be useful.

It's possible all these players are shit but I'd like to see them in a proper team construct before I start dismantling another TFC roster.

[ag futbol]

If he plays better for another team it's because he won't be used in a 4-4-2. No one on this team right now has more than 1 or 2 options when they have the ball. How can we expect someone like Oduro to do anything in these situations? Yes, he's limited. But he would look better in a 4-3-3 where he does not have to track back as much, he has more space to run towards goal (because you're taking a striker out from front of goal), and he has more passing options (hopefully even some combinations with his fullback).

With players like Oduro, you have to help them think as little as possible. They need pre-designed movements and constant options and sometimes they can be useful.

It's possible all these players are shit but I'd like to see them in a proper team construct before I start dismantling another TFC roster.

It's a bridge too far for him to expect him to be useful in a 4-3-3. He's a pure 4-4-2 player. He pounds the channel and hits on the counter attack, that's about it.

He will have to track back in a 4-3-3 and be very adept positionally. It pretty much always defends 4-5-1 and two way play from your wide players is critical. So much of that formation being successful relies on the interchanging of positions of your front three players. He doesn't have a hope of catching on to something like that. Also doesn't have the vision to connect the passes to his teammates. I hold out hope that someone like Jackson could figure it out or that Warner starts getting more in tune with the play, but not Oduro. He won't be useful in that system.

[Marc"2L"]

I'm too broken to offer anything to this board anymore. The highs aren't really highs anymore, and the lows are bottomless. I really don't know how much longer this is sustainable. I mean, the stadium expansion seems like the worst waste of money at this point, no?

What happens if the year it was supposed to be different isn't?

[billyfly]

My civic pride isn't tied to our sports teams (repeat until true)

[nonc]

Lieweke's career getting more tarnished by the day, he is ultimately responsible for this hard flop with his inexperienced FIFA GM and newb coaches. But he will be gone soon so doesn't give a fuck. It's naive to think TFC is a few players away from breaking through when our president, GM, and coaching positions are either a carousel and/or inadequately filled. The only continuity is disease, stupidity, and ego-maniacs.

[notthesun]

Yep.

DM, CD: two wingers who are speedy enough to cut inside but smart enough on the ball to open up space. I'd also look at upgrading the striker spot since we look toothless when either Gilberto or previously Defoe are not playing.

The worst part, as others have mentioned, is our need for a starting CB was glaringly obvious coming into the season. It hadn't bitten us too hard but you knew it would eventually. Unbelievable that Nelsen and Bez did not recognize the fact we'd need someone new back there.

[Yohan]

The worst part, as others have mentioned, is our need for a starting CB was glaringly obvious coming into the season. It hadn't bitten us too hard but you knew it would eventually. Unbelievable that Nelsen and Bez did not recognize the fact we'd need someone new back there.

who'd have thought that a healthy Caldwell was key to our season (other than me, lol)

[OgtheDim]

Been saying it since the loss in Salt Lake. Bez didn't seem to have a plan b when the league wouldn't let us keep Laba. Tried with Warner but he's not a DM. We did better against the press today but still not good enough for this season to get turned around.

The team will talk about playoffs

[gate7]

is it the coach's fault?…..or the ones who chose them. I'm beginning to wonder if the team would play the same without a manager whatsoever

[gate7]

Been saying it since the loss in Salt Lake. Bez didn't seem to have a plan b when the league wouldn't let us keep Laba. Tried with Warner but he's not a DM. We did better against the press today but still not good enough for this season to get turned around.

The team will talk about playoffs

valid point re: plan B

[azorean]

QUOTE=Yohan;1693741]who'd have thought that a healthy Caldwell was key to our season (other than me, lol)[/QUOTE]

Dont't get smug, Caldwell and his flaililng arms ain't the answer.guy is overpaid for what he brings.

[Loyal]

Was able to listen to the radio broadcast from a seat just under the press box - good view of the formations.

On one counter attack by the Union we were out numbered 4 x 3 and as Dan Donlevy pointed out ALL FOUR MIDFIELDERS for TFC were actually "walking back" into our zone

Add to that the body language was extremely poor throughout - again.

This team does not believe in itself right now and lacks a leader on the field

It is also very easy to "fall in love" and over rate our own players

We have an over abundance of players with "athletic looking" bodies that do nothing!

A Broadway casting scout would have a field day filling spots for The Wizard of Oz as Henry, Jackson and Orduro sing "If I only had a brain"!

[OgtheDim]

That was the counter attack after Bradley went box to box and then somebody coughed up the ball. Bradley I can forgive for not getting back. Bekker and oduro, not so much.

[Oldtimer]

Let's face facts: for whatever reason, this team has given up on the season.

[OgtheDim]

More like they have gotten used to giving up goals. Orr seems to see the writing on the wall and is so frustrated at this not working out he is reacting in anger every time he screws up. That having been said, Orr still passes the ball better than Hagglund or Henry.

[Soccerpro]

The team wasn't bad until the in season trades. How many games have we won with Bradley and Warner as the CM pairing?

[VoxPopuliCosmicum]

My civic pride isn't tied to our sports teams (repeat until true)

Luckily we have that fantastic mayor...

[West220Side]

Holy hell, this team.

My god what did we collectively do in our past lives.

This sums it up. What do we have to do as an organization to catch a break? We've f***** up so many times over the year, from front office to coaching to players on the field (I'm looking at you Maxim Usanov) but seriously this year should have (still can be) our year! What the F*** did we do to deserve this, boys?

Sure we're a few pieces short on the pitch, and a lot of pieces short on the coaching bench but what in the hell. We should have a team competitive with the likes of Seattle, we have a team as strong as Sporting Kansas City (minus the chemistry) why can't we just pull it together ! I can't stand much more of this bullsh***

[molenshtain]

The team wasn't bad until the in season trades. How many games have we won with Bradley and Warner as the CM pairing?

you're delusional if you think adding Warner, Moore, Creavalle and Oduro was bad for the team. They aren't great, but they were better than what we had before.

[Yohan]

QUOTE=Yohan;1693741]who'd have thought that a healthy Caldwell was key to our season (other than me, lol)

Dont't get smug, Caldwell and his flaililng arms ain't the answer.guy is overpaid for what he brings.[/QUOTE]
maybe not. but he does organize the defence better than 2 kids running around with their heads cut off at CB

[Soccerpro]

you're delusional if you think adding Warner, Moore, Creavalle and Oduro was bad for the team. They aren't great, but they were better than what we had before.

So why we were better before? Defoe and Caldwell going down is a big part of it, no doubt. But what creativity do we seem to have now? How is no one vs ever open when we have the ball?

[azorean]

Dont get smug, Caldwell and his flaililng arms ain't the answer.guy is overpaid for what he brings.

maybe not. but he does organize the defence better than 2 kids running around with their heads cut off at CB[/QUOTE]

Granted, still overpaid though and we should be looking to replace him.

[molenshtain]

So why we were better before? Defoe and Caldwell going down is a big part of it, no doubt. But what creativity do we seem to have now? How is no one vs ever open when we have the ball?

coaching.

Moore creavalle and Warner, while probably overused, are better than the alternatives. They're proper depth options, of which we had very little before.


Oduro, while mostly shit most of the time, is still undeniably better than Rey.

[Canary10]

Firing the coach with 10 games left was lunacy. Bez needs to wear that. Hope we don't see him back next year.

[ag futbol]

The worst part, as others have mentioned, is our need for a starting CB was glaringly obvious coming into the season. It hadn't bitten us too hard but you knew it would eventually. Unbelievable that Nelsen and Bez did not recognize the fact we'd need someone new back there.

In slight defence of this: Hagglund and Orr had a few games early season where they looked as good as Caldwell and Henry. But overall, I agree it was obvious from the start.

Same with a defensive mid. Bradley Osorio was an odd pairing and Warner just doesn't cut it in there as a starter.

[Gilberto9]

I know there's still many games left, but it doesn't look like we're going to make the playoffs. You can tell from the last few games that this squad doesn't have the hunger of a team in a playoff race. We are giving up on the season, yet we still hold a playoff spot. The intensity wasn't there when we needed it today in the final stages.

De Rosario put a great display on today, put in a 100% effort. The only other player I saw that from today was Hagguland. Not sure how Bradley was MOTM.

The only way we pull some results from here on out is with a Osorio-Bradley CM partnership and Caldwell commanding the backline.

[ag futbol]

If the backline wasn't so horribly weak I might ask if Creavalle is up for doing some sort of job in midfield. I think he's a player, but not sure what his best use on this team is as of yet.