Did Defoe's request come first?

[jloome]

Harry Redknapp and Defoe have a relationship that goes way back, so when he says Defoe wanted out, I tend to believe him.

So let's ask the question: what if defoe's request came BEFORE we heard about any of this? What if he was refusing to play?

Tim L looks like a total fool for raiding the coffers to pay for him, already seen as risky to MLSE. He is given a chance to resign quietly (a hell of a lot more plausible than a major CEO moving on to 'no fixed plans' because his wife hates the weather).

Tim B, a league guy installed by garber to prevent Tim L from pulling another Lalas/aeg fiasco out of his hat, then proposes Nelsen wear it for talking his ex teammate up In the first place, leAving us wit a situation where our top scorer leaves 10 games before the playoffs.

the players find out Defoe may be dealt. We see the result in their play against New England; they are demoralized.

nelsen comes out publicly against Tim B, is fired.

Defoe is told he can move on after the playoffs, if we qualify, but if we don't won't play for TFC again.

[jabbronies]

Defoe was looking for fame. Came to T.O and realized he wasn't going to be the big shit Beckham was and also realized the quality of football was nowhere what he was sold. He's not a family guy with wife and kids, so unlike a Koevermans, he's not looking to settle down. So he really has nothing to be here for.

As for TL -I think he may have overestimated the financial possibilities here in Toronto. We are a small market compared to an LA or NY. The cash doesn't flow as freely here as it does elsewhere. I also bet Bogers had their own plans on how the company would build out that were not aligned with TL's vision. I'm sure he wanted things done big and done now. whereas cheap ass Bogers wanted to do it slower and milk as much cash out of the process as possible - just like they do with their customers.

[Beach_Red]

Harry Redknapp and Defoe have a relationship that goes way back, so when he says Defoe wanted out, I tend to believe him.

So let's ask the question: what if defoe's request came BEFORE we heard about any of this? What if he was refusing to play?

Tim L looks like a total fool for raiding the coffers to pay for him, already seen as risky to MLSE. He is given a chance to resign quietly (a hell of a lot more plausible than a major CEO moving on to 'no fixed plans' because his wife hates the weather).

Tim B, a league guy installed by garber to prevent Tim L from pulling another Lalas/aeg fiasco out of his hat, then proposes Nelsen wear it for talking his ex teammate up In the first place, leAving us wit a situation where our top scorer leaves 10 games before the playoffs.

the players find out Defoe may be dealt. We see the result in their play against New England; they are demoralized.

nelsen comes out publicly against Tim B, is fired.

Defoe is told he can move on after the playoffs, if we qualify, but if we don't won't play for TFC again.

This may be the biggest thing here. The way MLSE has allowed, from day one, the league to meddle in the running of the team.

[jloome]

This may be the biggest thing here. The way MLSE has allowed, from day one, the league to meddle in the running of the team.

I suspect his competency with negotiations at the league level led them to believe -- and it may well be the case -- that he was a good vanguard for the franchise's value, which has shot up so much since they purchased it that on a league-wide basis, there's a reason for them to want to meddle.

Besides, if you read the Beckham experiment and about he and his brothers fleeing KC, Tim L has a long history of failing before he succeeds. They may have felt 'All for One' was another such venture. If Defoe fled to prompt all this, they were probably right.

[jloome]

Defoe was looking for fame. Came to T.O and realized he wasn't going to be the big shit Beckham was and also realized the quality of football was nowhere what he was sold. He's not a family guy with wife and kids, so unlike a Koevermans, he's not looking to settle down. So he really has nothing to be here for.

I was thinking about how it all went down and what the likely scenarios were, and this was one of the things that occurred to me: Defoe is a single guy, known to be a social player. But in TO, he was practically anonymous even with all the hype. Combine that with some alienation over money from his teammates (ala Beckham) and he might have just been very homesick. Add in being beaten up in every game without refs calling it, a lack of service and the team not getting better, and it's a recipe for the guy wanting to flee.

If you're right about the board's approach, it would have put Tim L squarely in the crosshairs.

[Phil]

This may be the biggest thing here. The way MLSE has allowed, from day one, the league to meddle in the running of the team.

I couldn't disagree more with this. MLSE has been one of the teams that challenged the MLS from day one. We inisit on doing things our own way and it frustrated the league to no end. In almost every aspect MLSE threaten the MLS, finace wise, market wise, strategy wise. This team went against the established soccer mom marketing audience - it went for the young to mid aged male who drinks beer. Its fans travelled and caused the MLS to have to react and modify all security and planned measures. We are constantly on the side of strong ownership and pressing the salary cap higher vs almost all the other teams keeping it down.

I will concede - and probably more specifically to your point that we have taken the dangled carrot from MLS more than a few times in the past - Mo, Tim L & Tim B for sure land in there. Sitting from the seats I do with the league and MLSE I haven't seen much co-operation though. Our players, management and influence have almost always been seen as a threat to the MLS.

[Beach_Red]

I suspect his competency with negotiations at the league level led them to believe -- and it may well be the case -- that he was a good vanguard for the franchise's value, which has shot up so much since they purchased it that on a league-wide basis, there's a reason for them to want to meddle.

Besides, if you read the Beckham experiment and about he and his brothers fleeing KC, Tim L has a long history of failing before he succeeds. They may have felt 'All for One' was another such venture. If Defoe fled to prompt all this, they were probably right.

Sure, there's a reason for the league to want to meddle, but what does say about the ownership that they have allowed the league so much input - from the very beginning all the way to now? Is there any reason to believe that the meddling will ever stop? Or that a team meddled with so much will ever be a winning team?

[jloome]

Sure, there's a reason for the league to want to meddle, but what does say about the ownership that they have allowed the league so much input - from the very beginning all the way to now? Is there any reason to believe that the meddling will ever stop? Or that a team meddled with so much will ever be a winning team?

There's not even a reason to think most of the meddling helps; they also recommended Mo to us, and Klinsmann, and neither of those went too well.

There's no doubt MLSE has some sort of wicked voodoo effect on everything it owns; I tend to think it starts with what Ensco used to say about Richard Peddie being practically canonized for making 5.25% annual returns; it's an attitude of being too being to fail but also too big for anyone to care much about the end result, as opposed to pure internal politics.

[Phil]

Defoe was looking for fame. Came to T.O and realized he wasn't going to be the big shit Beckham was and also realized the quality of football was nowhere what he was sold. He's not a family guy with wife and kids, so unlike a Koevermans, he's not looking to settle down. So he really has nothing to be here for.

As for TL -I think he may have overestimated the financial possibilities here in Toronto. We are a small market compared to an LA or NY. The cash doesn't flow as freely here as it does elsewhere. I also bet Bogers had their own plans on how the company would build out that were not aligned with TL's vision. I'm sure he wanted things done big and done now. whereas cheap ass Bogers wanted to do it slower and milk as much cash out of the process as possible - just like they do with their customers.

Lets wrap our heads around some simple math - Rogers goes out and gets the rights to broadcast the NHL for 5.2 Billion bucks. Only one of the partners in this whole thing...and here we are talking about 100 million over 5 years?

The money in TFC has nothing to do with it, we are wearing some short sighted glasses if that is all we can see. Lets look at the the purchase of an NFL franchise and moving it to the GTA with a new stadium in the range of 3 Billion. Lets look at Tim L having his daughter be the personal assistant to Jon Bon Jovi and that same guy being removed from the three way purchase of the NFL team - the trinity of Larry T, Rogers and Bon Jovi. They asked Jon to increase his share and he is tapped, so quits and along with that goes Tim L. Its no secret he left LA because he didn't get his NFL team, he came here to see if it could be an easy trophy and its not. Time to fly the coup and call it a rebound.

I am basing all this off of articles and info I read, no inside info here, just a guess.

[Fort York Redcoat]

This may be the biggest thing here. The way MLSE has allowed, from day one, the league to meddle in the running of the team.

I'd look at it more as a call for help from day one. I mean, what did they know about the league before they thought they'd buy in?

[jloome]

I'd look at it more as a call for help from day one. I mean, what did they know about the league before they thought they'd buy in?

Very true. The fan culture thing in Canada came from the fan base's collective foreign heritage; TFC just lucked into it, and then the league bought in wider with Seattle. It was definitely the superior model and MLS didn't see that.

But I think Tim B. is different; he's their guy sent in to protect this from MLSE flushing it down the drain with a "third team" effort, a la Kraft in New England. There's too much investment north of the border now.

I would worry at this point, however, with the demand for franchises soaring, whether Toronto will sell out if the numbers keep going south.

[Beach_Red]

Very true. The fan culture thing in Canada came from the fan base's collective foreign heritage; TFC just lucked into it, and then the league bought in wider with Seattle. It was definitely the superior model and MLS didn't see that.

But I think Tim B. is different; he's their guy sent in to protect this from MLSE flushing it down the drain with a "third team" effort, a la Kraft in New England. There's too much investment north of the border now.

I would worry at this point, however, with the demand for franchises soaring, whether Toronto will sell out if the numbers keep going south.

Seems unlikely. This ownership has no problem making a little less profit than others could probably get in the same market (they've certainly shown that with their other teams and businesses). And this league is about the league, not the individual teams - what MLSE own is a percentage of the league. And they'll always own all the Canadian broadcast rights, so as long as the league does well a mediocre team in Toronto is good enough for them.

Besides, Toronto is an event city - if TFC get into a real playoff race and make the playoffs the place will be full. They only need to do that every few years.

[dupont]

if TFC get into a real playoff race and make the playoffs the place will be full. They only need to do that every few years.

It's a shame that small feat seems impossible for MLSE

[ManUtd4ever]

Although I was just as ecstatic as everyone else when the Defoe signing was confirmed, the current situation is precisely why I initially had reservations about Leiweke's all or nothing approach in the off season. I'm sure Defoe helped sell tickets, but practically speaking, I think the club would be better off with a lesser known young DP that is durable and capable of scoring goals in this league.

[jabbronies]

Lets wrap our heads around some simple math - Rogers goes out and gets the rights to broadcast the NHL for 5.2 Billion bucks. Only one of the partners in this whole thing...and here we are talking about 100 million over 5 years?

The money in TFC has nothing to do with it, we are wearing some short sighted glasses if that is all we can see. Lets look at the the purchase of an NFL franchise and moving it to the GTA with a new stadium in the range of 3 Billion. Lets look at Tim L having his daughter be the personal assistant to Jon Bon Jovi and that same guy being removed from the three way purchase of the NFL team - the trinity of Larry T, Rogers and Bon Jovi. They asked Jon to increase his share and he is tapped, so quits and along with that goes Tim L. Its no secret he left LA because he didn't get his NFL team, he came here to see if it could be an easy trophy and its not. Time to fly the coup and call it a rebound.

I am basing all this off of articles and info I read, no inside info here, just a guess.

I'm not going to get into the TL conversation - To be honest it's a part of the game I'm not wanting to delve into very deeply because frankly, it's not about the sport with these guys, it's all about the money.

I wasn't talking about TFC specifically - obviously TFC was just a way to make an impact quickly. The Leafs, Raptors and the potential for an NFL franchise are the big money making ventures. But with that being said, sounds like he and JBJ thought this group had more money to throw around and it wasn't happening.

[jabbronies]

Although I was just as ecstatic as everyone else when the Defoe signing was confirmed, the current situation is precisely why I initially had reservations about Leiweke's all or nothing approach in the off season. I'm sure Defoe helped sell tickets, but practically speaking, I think the club would be better off with a lesser known young DP that is durable and capable of scoring goals in this league.

No way - we needed a big name, but someone who wanted to come here on his own.

I could be wrong, but has Henry ever had regrets coming over here? I feel like he didn't or maybe I just don't hear about the stinks he's made in the past

[ensco]

I love a good conspiracy (so I've been told!) but I think this one has cause and effect backwards.

I think Leiweke's departure may have pushed Defoe over the edge. Leiweke would have made a lot of personal promises to Defoe, and he'd see all that as finished, anyone would. I worry about whether Masai or Lowry might have the same problem, btw.

I don't think the Defoe/Bradley contracts got Leiweke fired per se. As I have said elsewhere, it was that the early financial returns on that investment were crap, and Leiweke was asking for more (maybe quite a few more) $100M cheques, and asking for other things, that caused friction.

[Jack]

I think the club would be better off with a lesser known young DP that is durable and capable of scoring goals in this league.

I know just the guy...

[OgtheDim]

Harry Redknapp....when he says.....I tend to believe him.

Just stop right there.


Harry cares about one thing only.


Harry.


Any speculation based on what that guys says isn't worth the time.

[Red Skies At Night]

I've been following old 'arry's career since he stuck a knife in his best friends back to get the west ham manager's job. redknapp is considered a bit of a joke amongst the press in the UK with his car window deadline day proclamations. I don't doubt that he wants Defoe, (and Defoe wants qpr) but given the fair play financial regs and the qpr transfer budget, I would argue that there is no way fernandes (qpr owner) let's him stump up 11 mil for a 31 yr old striker with injury issues (I mean who would spend good $ on someone like that... oh wait). MLS will be lucky to get the same transfer fee that they paid for him. Still, I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave at end of season, but not for any significant fee.

[burlington Red]

I've been following old 'arry's career since he stuck a knife in his best friends back to get the west ham manager's job. redknapp is considered a bit of a joke amongst the press in the UK with his car window deadline day proclamations. I don't doubt that he wants Defoe, (and Defoe wants qpr) but given the fair play financial regs and the qpr transfer budget, I would argue that there is no way fernandes (qpr owner) let's him stump up 11 mil for a 31 yr old striker with injury issues (I mean who would spend good $ on someone like that... oh wait). MLS will be lucky to get the same transfer fee that they paid for him. Still, I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave at end of season, but not for any significant fee.

QPR might have bit more then you gave them credit for, the Cesar wages were a big hit that they finally got rid of. They also got a bit of cash for Loc Remy (10.5 million pounds). Any value we could have got on selling Defoe was then, as QPR had that Remy cash and a role they needed to fill up front.But you're right I can't see them forking out some of the numbers being thrown around considering Defoe's fitness.
Redknapp is what he is, but it ironic that the press who consider him a joke were the same ones calling for him to get the England job after Capello.
I have no doubt that Defoe's reps have been in contact with various clubs since he got here, he obviously doesn't like it here, no loyalty in football, just ask Issey.......

[greatwhitenorf]

Defoe came here with only one thing on his mind - be a starter, score goals and persuade Roy Hodgson to include him in the England World Cup roster.

He wasn't getting starting roles with Tottenham and Spurs made it clear his age was a factor in their roster decisions. He had little more than a back-up role with them, looking forward. His salary demands put off most other English clubs who might have taken him on as a starter. He was running out of time and options to make the England squad.

So, this deal to join Toronto was engineered. TFC and Spurs have had boardroom connections for a while, first via Richard Peddie and now Tim Leiweke who was a principal participant (with AEG) in Spurs controversial bid to move to the Olympic Stadium site. Defoe does have family here -two of his Toronto nieces are currently staying with clan Defoe in London. And, of course, he's closer to his St. Lucian relatives.

He got off to a good start, scoring important goals, but it wasn't counting for much with the British media, who love to sniffily dismiss MLS. Then, of course, the usual injury issues arose and the bad news finally arrived that he wouldn't be going to Brazil. He's been second-guessing his decision to come here ever since. Not long after, he told those close to him that he planned to return to England soon. All of this was playing out well in advance of Leiweke's departure announcement or the Nelsen-Bazbatchenko handbags.

Given how few decent strikers England have at present, and the appalling lack of enthusiasm many have for playing with that national side, there are some who think he could crack the Euro 2016 qualifying squad. And there's the likes of Redschnapps at QPR telling him he's still got what it takes, along with a handful of other Premier League clubs. But he's a London boy, through and through, and that's where he wants to play.

All his efforts since the Hodgson call have been directed toward this. His absence from the playing field is mainly to ensure he is fully recovered from whatever niggling injuries he may, and I stress may, be enduring. His trip to London to ostensibly receive treatment for his groin ailments co-incided rather nicely with the final days of the transfer window.

Had he left at that point, it would have been a PR black eye for MLS and TFC and that could not be allowed to happen. It probably would not have been a good deal financially, either. I doubt he'll play for TFC again this season.

[brad]

Defoe came here because we were the only team willing to sign him for the same salary he was making at Spurs - with a 4 year term to boot. Think he just realized how bad the football is and how weird the league is and decided he wanted to finish career at a higher level.

[Shakes McQueen]

I think the Leiweke news leaked, at which point he was hauled in front of the MLSE Board and asked what exactly his future intentions are, and was essentially lame duck'ed because of that conversation, where he presumably admitted it was true that he wanted out. Thought experiments are fun, but in the case of Tim L, I think it's pretty obvious how things went. The stuff from him about how "this was always the plan" is painfully stupid and transparent.

As for Defoe? Assuming he does want out, I think ensco's theory makes the most sense for why. Coupled with frustration at MLS-style soccer. Couldn't help but notice that Bradley's comments about people who "want to be here"', came when he was asked about the Defoe situation.

[Super]

Luke Wileman ‏@LukeWileman 5m
Daily Mail reports "Jermain Defoe will open negotiations with Toronto FC to end contract" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2745567/Jermain-Defoe-aiming-leave-Toronto-FC-January-transfer-window.html …

So how do I remove "Defoe" from my jersey? Bloody expensive deal that was.

[barticusz]

Luke Wileman ‏@LukeWileman 5m
Daily Mail reports "Jermain Defoe will open negotiations with Toronto FC to end contract" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2745567/Jermain-Defoe-aiming-leave-Toronto-FC-January-transfer-window.html …

So how do I remove "Defoe" from my jersey? Bloody expensive deal that was.

I was always afraid of getting a Defoe jersey. I've debated between Bradley and Gilberto but really I think the safest bet is nothing at all.

[Super]

I was always afraid of getting a Defoe jersey. I've debated between Bradley and Gilberto but really I think the safest bet is nothing at all.

I always used to go for nothing at all, but I wanted to show my appreciation to the club with my purchase and send a message. Never again!

[barticusz]

I always used to go for nothing at all, but I wanted to show my appreciation to the club with my purchase and send a message. Never again!

Your avatar is how I feel towards all English players at this point in time. Wish we had stuck with our South Americans.

[TFC Cityboy]

never put a new signing's name on a shirt. A legend yes, but never a new player.

I recall saying when he signed that there was no way Defoe would be at TFC for 4 years or even close to that. Likewise Bradley. As contracts are held with the league my thought was they would jump ship to a more glamourous club.It was like when Sven signed a 5 year deal at Notts County. Told a friend I'd bear my arse in Nathan Phillips square if he saw that out. It popped up on my Outlook a month or 2 ago and fortunately I had been correct.

So, after a promising opening half of the season, TFC's season is heading down the pan, with a rookie coach with zero experience, player unrest and likely dwindling crowds. We'll miss the playoffs as always and the cycle continues.

Plus ca change...

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I was always afraid of getting a Defoe jersey. I've debated between Bradley and Gilberto but really I think the safest bet is nothing at all.

i dont fuck with names on the back of jerseys anymore. feel like ive curse any of the players ive gotten. like fella says, legend sure, new signing nope