This Company MLSE does not deserve this team Or its Supporters.

[inheavensince07]

Every single year except the first and 2014 I have been embarrassed by this organization .. They have been a complete and utter disaster .. For the first time in 7 years I started getting back into the mind set that they have HOPE to be a team to be proud of ..

Bottom line the 3 headed Monster that owns this team is the Problem.. I even hate to say it but the RPB can and have been fooled by this beast over and over again. The team is a disgrace just like it was 3 and 4 and 5 years ago .. drama after dram after drama ..

As for the support til I die stuff I find that ridiculous and immature to a degree .. It is in fact only a shitty soccer team . There really should be a friggin revolt against this company and team ..

I am born and raised Toronto and as a long time leaf fan (no longer ) I woke up and said fook that .. Hit this team were it HURTS in the pocket book .

Many RPB have been on here since inception , I know you all by screen name etc (not personally ) but I feel that many are either brainwashed or short sighted .. I get enjoying the game day with friends etc .. BUT this is a time to stop this madness . Stop with the seasons tickets and padding the coffers ..
I have had seasons since day 1 and to lead the charge I am dropping the two tics and saying gbye forever .. I can always come by a game day tic but as for giving them my interest money F that ...

[denime]

I understand your frustration and your rant thread/post,but coming to RPB site and call RPB brainwashed or short sighted is very short sighted from you.
You won't get RPB dropping their ST when you call them out of being brainwashed or short sighted,choose your wording better and some people might follow your idea.

[inheavensince07]

I understand your frustration and your rant thread/post,but coming to RPB site and call RPB brainwashed or short sighted is very short sighted from you.
You won't get RPB dropping their ST when you call them out of being brainwashed or short sighted,choose your wording better and some people might follow your idea.

You are a 100 % right .. I did not mean it to be insulting but I think it was .. I will re think my wording and thoughts on the matter .. The RPB are passionate and sometimes passion clouds judgement .. me included

[v00d00daddy]

Every single year except the first and 2014 I have been embarrassed by this organization .. They have been a complete and utter disaster .. For the first time in 7 years I started getting back into the mind set that they have HOPE to be a team to be proud of ..

Bottom line the 3 headed Monster that owns this team is the Problem.. I even hate to say it but the RPB can and have been fooled by this beast over and over again. The team is a disgrace just like it was 3 and 4 and 5 years ago .. drama after dram after drama ..

As for the support til I die stuff I find that ridiculous and immature to a degree .. It is in fact only a shitty soccer team . There really should be a friggin revolt against this company and team ..

I am born and raised Toronto and as a long time leaf fan (no longer ) I woke up and said fook that .. Hit this team were it HURTS in the pocket book .

Many RPB have been on here since inception , I know you all by screen name etc (not personally ) but I feel that many are either brainwashed or short sighted .. I get enjoying the game day with friends etc .. BUT this is a time to stop this madness . Stop with the seasons tickets and padding the coffers ..
I have had seasons since day 1 and to lead the charge I am dropping the two tics and saying gbye forever .. I can always come by a game day tic but as for giving them my interest money F that ...

I agree with Denime….doesn't go well when you tell people what to do. I was a day one SSH and gave it up a couple of years ago. I didn't ask others to do it because, like you mentioned, going to games to support your team with friends is an almost impossible thing to ask people to walk away from.

That being said, I've asked and suggested to make beliefs and anger known to the club in different ways and even those were shit on and I was told I wasn't a "supporter".

It's a hard situation here. I too think that the fans of this club are part of the problem and deserve a (much smaller) part of the blame. I too think that the club should have been told that their ticket price reductions and signings of players that would distract us, just doesn't work. It shouldn't let us forget that the club has failed to come up with a plan that would make us successful and stick with it.

Like the other MLSE owned clubs…TFC are more about keeping the seats filled than they are about putting out a successful team. Even if that means that keeping the seats filled (by making the supporters happy) won't turn in to winning on the field.

It's so frustrating….especially when I'm so passionate and want to support my hometowns pro footballing team and I feel like they've been fucked up almost every single day. The most frustrating thing to me was that they started a plan that I loved and have since thrown it away and gone back to thinking like season 1.

And now we're back to season 1 land.

[ensco]

Who exactly are you mad at?

There is no "MLSE". It is a convenient fiction.

The teams were a division of a pension fund, now they're a leveraged joint venture of the two TV/internet monopolies.

[v00d00daddy]

Who exactly are you mad at?

There is no "MLSE". It is a convenient fiction.

The teams were a division of a pension fund, now they're a leveraged joint venture of the two TV/internet monopolies.

Hahaha. Ok ok. I know very little about the business make up of all this stuff. I know it's Rogers v. Bell now and I get that it's tv ratings/blue jays v argos and a bunch of other stuff. I don't know the details and wouldn't get them well if I did.

What I'm mad at is that they care more about making people happy than they do about putting out a successful team that can grow things in the future with a goal of improving the game in this country.

It's all about money.

[MightyDM]

TFC should be community owned like Barcelona. (or Saskatchewan Roughriders).

[inheavensince07]

Hahaha. Ok ok. I know very little about the business make up of all this stuff. I know it's Rogers v. Bell now and I get that it's tv ratings/blue jays v argos and a bunch of other stuff. I don't know the details and wouldn't get them well if I did.

What I'm mad at is that they care more about making people happy than they do about putting out a successful team that can grow things in the future with a goal of improving the game in this country.

It's all about money.

ding ding ding ding .... business is business but sport is also sport

[v00d00daddy]

TFC should be community owned like Barcelona. (or Saskatchewan Roughriders).

I love the idea of this but only if the ENTIRE community was given a voice.

The same "community" has been in charge of football in this country for decades. Little blips here and there but the overall sentiment has remained. TFC since day 1. When they changed it was for a short time and they dropped it, forgot about it, and went back to old, dead thinking right away. All to appease the "community".

[Jack]

What I'm mad at is that they care more about making people happy than they do about putting out a successful team that can grow things in the future with a goal of improving the game in this country.

It's all about money.

I'll preface by saying they I'm not calling you out. On forums, text sometimes can't convey tone, so that's my intent with this caveat. I respect many of your opinions and your passion for TFC, but what you say here seems illogical and a bit self-contradictory, so please help me understand.

If they want to make people happy, doesn't winning accomplish that goal? I think it's safe to say that there has been a massive amount of venom directed at this organization from the supporters precisely due to the lack of success.

It's all about the money for all of these teams in all sports these days. The traditions of clubs winning for pride of membership or pride of region/city has long been supplanted by the goal of making more money and success is mostly measured in terms of financial rewards. MLS measures its success by being financially viable and earning more popularity which drives sponsorship and TV revenue.

Inheavensince07 is right insomuch as it's only going to really hurt them if people stop buying, but we can still put pressure in them in other ways. Unfortunately, we are left in the position of this or nothing for our home team.

What I've seen from the ownership of the MLSE teams, whether a pension fund asset or belonging to two competing media empires, is that they don't seem to think the extra popularity and earning power of champions are worth the effort, or they are just not that interested. After all, if their sports properties are generating revenues to match their targets and projections, then they don't need to really change anything. They want to win, of course, but that isn't a measure of success for them. Success=making more money that last year.

[Fort York Redcoat]

TFC should be community owned like Barcelona. (or Saskatchewan Roughriders).

Every team should be. What proof do you have that this community is ready, though? It would be absolutely shambolic in this particular community.

[MightyDM]

I posted this in the other thread. Also relevant here:

After sleeping on it, I am quite worried about this whole series of events, which have the potential to seriously destabilize this club. Nelsen had considerable strengths that we will no longer have as an organization with him and Tim L gone, particularly his reputation and the respect people had for him in the world of soccer. An agent could say to a player, "do you want to be part of what Ryan Nelsen is building in Toronto" and they would know what the agent meant. From all reports, his reputation was very positive , as it should be for someone who captained a country with the population of Toronto to an undefeated world cup. No agent is going to say to any player anywhere in the world, even in Montreal and Columbus, "do you want to be part of what Tim Bezbechenko is building?"

We are going to miss his player evaluation skills, which we collectively seem to be taking for granted. Compare the acquisitions on his watch to those on the watch of the other permanent head coaches and he sacks up very, very well, particularly if you judge him post Payne as it seems that's when he has had the most influence.

We are going to miss the Manager's authority in the locker room. if the rumours are true that Bradley disagreed with his tactics, then these actions have just disempowered the manager and empowered the players. That can only end badly (see, United, Manchester). Bradley had the right, as captain, to raise these issues with him but ultimately had to play whatever Nelsen decided, with professionalism and enthusiasm. If he couldn't accept it, he needed to be sat down for a game of two, perhaps with the cover story about recovering from the world cup. Once the position of Manager loses authority, a club is in for a lot of trouble.

We are now in the position of needing shrewd scouting in South America and a producing academy to build for the future. While this may be a good model, if that is where we are going why get rid of Payne - and Laba and Urruti?

I hope Greg Vanney has immediate success, the kind of success that people have predicted because of his work at the RSL and LAG academies. If he doesn't, we are in trouble. At a minimum, we will need a TFC President with heft and respect. And competence. Which sounds a lot like rebuilding. Again.

[MightyDM]

Every team should be. What proof do you have that this community is ready, though? It would be absolutely shambolic in this particular community.

What proof do you have that being owned by MLSE isn't shambolic?

[Leedsoronto]

Relax
It's footy, an entertainment business and boy are we all entertained, now let's also play some footy too and get back to winning.

[Beach_Red]

Who exactly are you mad at?

There is no "MLSE". It is a convenient fiction.

The teams were a division of a pension fund, now they're a leveraged joint venture of the two TV/internet monopolies.

Exactly why the NFL doesn't allow corporate ownership.

I guess someone could run a Kickstarter campaign to buy TFC, certainly MLSE would look at all offers.

[Alonso]

I'll preface by saying they I'm not calling you out. On forums, text sometimes can't convey tone, so that's my intent with this caveat. I respect many of your opinions and your passion for TFC, but what you say here seems illogical and a bit self-contradictory, so please help me understand.

If they want to make people happy, doesn't winning accomplish that goal? I think it's safe to say that there has been a massive amount of venom directed at this organization from the supporters precisely due to the lack of success.

It's all about the money for all of these teams in all sports these days. The traditions of clubs winning for pride of membership or pride of region/city has long been supplanted by the goal of making more money and success is mostly measured in terms of financial rewards. MLS measures its success by being financially viable and earning more popularity which drives sponsorship and TV revenue.

Inheavensince07 is right insomuch as it's only going to really hurt them if people stop buying, but we can still put pressure in them in other ways. Unfortunately, we are left in the position of this or nothing for our home team.

What I've seen from the ownership of the MLSE teams, whether a pension fund asset or belonging to two competing media empires, is that they don't seem to think the extra popularity and earning power of champions are worth the effort, or they are just not that interested. After all, if their sports properties are generating revenues to match their targets and projections, then they don't need to really change anything. They want to win, of course, but that isn't a measure of success for them. Success=making more money that last year.

To me this is the problem right here.

Success = winning year over year

Winning year over year = making more money year over year

To me they are short sighted in their approach, if they build a dynasty with their sports properties, they would reap many more rewards including more money.


Obviously there are going to be rough years, but 8 in row, vs 3 or 4 great years followed by 1 bad, is the difference I am talking about here. Many sports clubs manage to do this relatively consistently. But not MLSE owned teams, I realize ownership has changed but the circus apparently continues. Public perception is everything, and these guys still look like they couldn't manage their way out of a wet paper bag.

Consistently performing well for a sports team will ultimately maximize revenue.

MLSE is in trouble if they continue to look foolish like they have over the past week or so.

They should have done everything to keep Leiweke happy, and keep this shit together, now it's devolving into another fucking clown show.

They sold something to Leiweke, Defoe, Bradley and the fans, and now they are pulling the rug out from under it.

ML$E deserves our ire for that.

[v00d00daddy]

I'll preface by saying they I'm not calling you out. On forums, text sometimes can't convey tone, so that's my intent with this caveat. I respect many of your opinions and your passion for TFC, but what you say here seems illogical and a bit self-contradictory, so please help me understand.

If they want to make people happy, doesn't winning accomplish that goal? I think it's safe to say that there has been a massive amount of venom directed at this organization from the supporters precisely due to the lack of success.

It's all about the money for all of these teams in all sports these days. The traditions of clubs winning for pride of membership or pride of region/city has long been supplanted by the goal of making more money and success is mostly measured in terms of financial rewards. MLS measures its success by being financially viable and earning more popularity which drives sponsorship and TV revenue.

Inheavensince07 is right insomuch as it's only going to really hurt them if people stop buying, but we can still put pressure in them in other ways. Unfortunately, we are left in the position of this or nothing for our home team.

What I've seen from the ownership of the MLSE teams, whether a pension fund asset or belonging to two competing media empires, is that they don't seem to think the extra popularity and earning power of champions are worth the effort, or they are just not that interested. After all, if their sports properties are generating revenues to match their targets and projections, then they don't need to really change anything. They want to win, of course, but that isn't a measure of success for them. Success=making more money that last year.

Sorry. I tend to be confusing because I just rant instead of planning and editing my thoughts.

Yes….winning leads to happiness. I just meant that the top priority is making money, which means keeping the supporters happy.

Now…the hardest way to do that is to spend properly and put out a winning AND entertaining team that also has a bright future. That's hard to do in all sports, at all levels.

So what does our club do? Well….they make sure they have a safety blanket. And that blanket is, and always has been, making sure that IF the team fails, at the very least the supporters (majority) will be catered to. That's why our team has been built, since day one, to look like, play like, sign players like a certain mentality. The mentality that has ruled football in this country forever.

And…my opinion here….the mentality that has made us 122nd in the world on the FIFA rankings.

I've wanted it gone since long before 2007. I hoped TFC would be the way it was transformed. I lived with the first couple years of seeing how things would go. But it was obvious that nothing had changed. I commented in threads in old forums around here about this issue.

8 years later the issue is still here and people still refuse to wonder if it's true…let alone believe it.

When we went to the Total Football Dutch model I was so happy. I was willing to wait the 3-4 years of building a successful club. It was a long term plan that we've all seen works on the global stage so we should have waited.

Instead, our club brought it in but had to keep the safety blanket around. They knew that if it didn't work right away they needed to be able to keep SSH's happy. They knew that people would want heads to roll and would love to be critical of "Total Football". It's just how lovers of what the vast majority of Canadian football fans love behave and think.

I know what I'm saying is called xenophobic and even racist sometimes but that's not what I'm doing. I want TFC and, more importantly, Canada to be successful in the sport I love. I think we should do it by copying a model that the successful countries use.

Instead we pick what unsuccessful countries use. And it's all to make sure that priority number one is taken care of. Keep the seats full. Interest levels high.

The easiest way to do it is to cater to people who are too proud to admit that they're just wrong. Canadian football history has shown it forever.

I'm curious….how does the Academy currently operate? What kind of football do they teach? What kind of young players do they seek out?

I really hope it's not about athleticism, speed, and heart before everything else.

Sorry for another rant. hahaha

[Beach_Red]

^ Just curious, would you have been willing to wait a lot longer than 3-4 years?

[ensco]

The other MLSE teams are big, they sail on. But the hiring of Leiweke may have been catastrophic for TFC. This was always my fear.

Imagine if we try to go back to a Payne-style program - forget Payne the individual for a sec, I'm talking about a traditional MLS build model (the short-lived Payne era remains the only time we put an MLS battle-tested GM in charge here).

Could the fan base tolerate that now? There'll by 5000 in the stands next year!

[Alonso]

The other MLSE teams are big, they sail on. But the hiring of Leiweke may have been catastrophic for TFC. This was always my fear.

Imagine if we try to go back to a Payne-style program - forget Payne the individual for a sec, I'm talking about a traditional MLS build model (the short-lived Payne era remains the only time we put an MLS battle-tested GM in charge here).

Could the fan base tolerate that now? There'll by 5000 in the stands next year!

Yeah this is a major ML$E fuck up.

If that happens (5,000 fans in the seats) Bradley is gone for sure to. ML$E won't want to pay his salary, and he would rather be playing for NYCFC.

If MLSE don't carefully manage TFC over the next few months and pull this shit back together asap, this could be the biggest debacle the league has ever seen.

[BBLaw]

Yeah this is a major ML$E fuck up.

If that happens (5,000 fans in the seats) Bradley is gone for sure to. ML$E won't want to pay his salary, and he would rather be playing for NYCFC.

If MLSE don't carefully manage TFC over the next few months and pull this shit back together asap, this could be the biggest debacle the league has ever seen.

We're getting scary close to 5000 fans in the seats, 5000 tickets sold will never happen though and that's all the organization cares about sadly. Even if ticket sales begin to bomb they'll just force Leafs STH to buy TFC tickets like they did with the Raptors all those years.

[jloome]

The other MLSE teams are big, they sail on. But the hiring of Leiweke may have been catastrophic for TFC. This was always my fear.

He went big AND he went home.

[flatpicker]

I bet Don Garber loves TFC and MLSE!

I joke

[v00d00daddy]

^ Just curious, would you have been willing to wait a lot longer than 3-4 years?

Depends on what I saw during those 3-4 years.

3-4 years it's plenty of time to get the roster you want. Plenty of time to work on the tactics and how to make them work in MLS. And, most importantly, develop the 14, 15,16 year olds that you see potential in to players that provide depth and talent on the senior roster.

So….if the club/gm/coach can't do that in 3-4 years I think I'd be upset. But that doesn't mean I'd give up on the idea. More likely give up on the people trying to implement the idea.

I sure as hell would never be okay going back to the garbage ideology that made us bad to begin with.

[OgtheDim]

We're getting scary close to 5000 fans in the seats,...

Bull pucky....the worst attended game was probably last Saturday and it looked like 15K.

We've seen 5K in that stadium - CCL mid week games against non Mexican teams.

[Pookie]

I read the doom and gloom and I just don't get it. I'm actually considering whether I get back in on season tickets for 2015.

The way I see it is that with Tim L leaving, a new President needs to be put in place. I can't see Tim B running the show at this stage. Therefore, this current power void is temporary.

The new guy will simply either keep Tim B (if he is doing a good job) or will install his own GM.

That means that the clock on Tim B is running and he has a short window to seize and secure his job in advance of Tim L's replacement. That means winning.

He has the balls to make the decision on Nelsen. If all goes well today, TFC will no longer have the boat anchor that is Defoe's contract (injuries and no budget relief for injured players and all of that). I don't think any of that will be Bez's doing. Defoe wants out and any deal would need to be approved by the Board. But still, it will be a bit of a fresh start.

Vanney either does well or he won't be back. It's either win or be replaced and this time they actually have a roster that should be able to do it.

And with multiple draft picks next year, they can actually start to rebuild the way that works in the MLS… via the draft.

So, I'm not seeing the downside.

Fans in the stands sure but there is no danger of the franchise folding… MLS owns it. It might look and sound like New England but it kinda already does.

[Pookie]

^ if Defoe stays… I change my mind and will keep my money.

This team needs 3 healthy DPs to be able to compete.

[Phil]

Every single year except the first and 2014 I have been embarrassed by this organization .. They have been a complete and utter disaster .. For the first time in 7 years I started getting back into the mind set that they have HOPE to be a team to be proud of ..

Bottom line the 3 headed Monster that owns this team is the Problem.. I even hate to say it but the RPB can and have been fooled by this beast over and over again. The team is a disgrace just like it was 3 and 4 and 5 years ago .. drama after dram after drama ..

As for the support til I die stuff I find that ridiculous and immature to a degree .. It is in fact only a shitty soccer team . There really should be a friggin revolt against this company and team ..

I am born and raised Toronto and as a long time leaf fan (no longer ) I woke up and said fook that .. Hit this team were it HURTS in the pocket book .

Many RPB have been on here since inception , I know you all by screen name etc (not personally ) but I feel that many are either brainwashed or short sighted .. I get enjoying the game day with friends etc .. BUT this is a time to stop this madness . Stop with the seasons tickets and padding the coffers ..
I have had seasons since day 1 and to lead the charge I am dropping the two tics and saying gbye forever .. I can always come by a game day tic but as for giving them my interest money F that ...

Sorry you feel that way.

Notice that RPB hasn't been issuing any comments or making bold statements. Its because collectively this has been one of those moments where the air is sucked out of the room. Out of respect for our membership we have been waiting to see what is going on with the club. Its out of respect for the members that we will collectively regroup and determine how we proceed forward.

[OfficeGuy]

Sorry you feel that way.

Notice that RPB hasn't been issuing any comments or making bold statements. Its because collectively this has been one of those moments where the air is sucked out of the room. Out of respect for our membership we have been waiting to see what is going on with the club. Its out of respect for the members that we will collectively regroup and determine how we proceed forward.[/QUOTE]

agreed....now is the time for solidarity to come thru as our support

[inheavensince07]

Sorry you feel that way.

Notice that RPB hasn't been issuing any comments or making bold statements. Its because collectively this has been one of those moments where the air is sucked out of the room. Out of respect for our membership we have been waiting to see what is going on with the club. Its out of respect for the members that we will collectively regroup and determine how we proceed forward.

agreed....now is the time for solidarity to come thru as our support[/QUOTE]

What do you mean ? stick with them and keep their bottom line on forecast ? Or stand up and use your power .. Just in some quick thoughts , i figured out that if RPB had 500 people that wanted to stop with $500 / season ticket that would hit their precious bottom line by 250,000, not to mention all the game day spending each week .
This group has been strong since day 1 , BUT i really don't think it has used its powers properly .. THE RPB make the game what it is down there thats the bottomline ..