Nelsen Out, Defoe Possibly to Follow

[Ossington Mental Youth]

So Felix Magath out at Fulham. Too bad, he was a great example of how well it usually works to fire your manager late in the season.

talk about tactical ineptness

[Canary10]

The fact that the players quit on the coach tells me there were some major divisions in the room and the general feeling was one of disdain for the entire coaching staff. If they were not allowed to play or challenge yourself as a player in training or game prep then you are going to tune the coach out. I would bet this is what happened.

CoachGT and I drove home after the NER game and pointed out that the team has giiven up on Nelsen. It was that obvious to us. We speculated on when the club would act on it, the only surprise was how fast Tim B moved on it. That is not the normal Toronto way and I think a lot of emotional shock was spent on that item alone. This whole thing happening now is the team doing everything it can to salvage playoffs.

I'm not sure I buy that the team gave up on him. The NE game was terrible, to be sure, but....did they know already he was a lame duck? Many people on the board have said Bez would have needed some time to prep Bogers, etc. Good chance that leaked out within the organization. Or it could have been a bad game. I thought the Chicago game the week before was fine. We looked in decent form, good energy, should have gotten the full 3. Also, I know a few people who have seen Nelsen out with some of the players post-firing. And some of the newer signed players have said it was the most cohesive dressing room they had been in.

Anyway, I don't know either way....

[Phil]

I'm not sure I buy that the team gave up on him. The NE game was terrible, to be sure, but....did they know already he was a lame duck? Many people on the board have said Bez would have needed some time to prep Bogers, etc. Good chance that leaked out within the organization. Or it could have been a bad game. I thought the Chicago game the week before was fine. We looked in decent form, good energy, should have gotten the full 3. Also, I know a few people who have seen Nelsen out with some of the players post-firing. And some of the newer signed players have said it was the most cohesive dressing room they had been in.

Anyway, I don't know either way....

I only have history to go by, but what is put in the papers is often times not what is happening in the room. I don't think Bogers can really be involved in personal changes on that level. Coaches come and go, its a part of the business and you have to let it run its course - its a dynamic sport and job. I don't buy that it was delayed due to that personally. However I do think there were conversations between Tim B and RN that would lead one to believe RN's job is in trouble. RN must have walked out of a meeting or two in the previous weeks thinking....'If we don't get a result from X games, my goose is cooked'.

[flamehawk]

Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUN 11m
Club tells me any rumours regarding Bob Bradley are false. Independent, informed source tells @TheTorontoSun BB hasn't been contacted. #TFC

Well that's disappointing. Let's hope Vanney does turn out to be an amazing coach.

[jloome]

The fact that the players quit on the coach tells me there were some major divisions in the room and the general feeling was one of disdain for the entire coaching staff. If they were not allowed to play or challenge yourself as a player in training or game prep then you are going to tune the coach out. I would bet this is what happened.

CoachGT and I drove home after the NER game and pointed out that the team has giiven up on Nelsen. It was that obvious to us. We speculated on when the club would act on it, the only surprise was how fast Tim B moved on it. That is not the normal Toronto way and I think a lot of emotional shock was spent on that item alone. This whole thing happening now is the team doing everything it can to salvage playoffs.

Yeah, this sounds about right. I will say that in terms of it going south, Defoe asking to go back to England probably had a lot to do with it. I don't belief this "if he's gone, I'm gone" bullshit.

[Canary10]

I only have history to go by, but what is put in the papers is often times not what is happening in the room. I don't think Bogers can really be involved in personal changes on that level. Coaches come and go, its a part of the business and you have to let it run its course - its a dynamic sport and job. I don't buy that it was delayed due to that personally. However I do think there were conversations between Tim B and RN that would lead one to believe RN's job is in trouble. RN must have walked out of a meeting or two in the previous weeks thinking....'If we don't get a result from X games, my goose is cooked'.

One day I'd love to hear some of the stories you've been privy to....

[notthesun]

Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUN 11m
Club tells me any rumours regarding Bob Bradley are false. Independent, informed source tells @TheTorontoSun BB hasn't been contacted. #TFC

Well that's disappointing. Let's hope Vanney does turn out to be an amazing coach.

I recommend everybody just ignore anything Paul Attfield puts out from now on.

[OgtheDim]

If Vanney flames out, we go with a big hired bun next season.

Bradley can still be called.

[Yohan]

If Vanney flames out, we go with a big hired bun next season.

Bradley can still be called.

And maybe even bigger name. David Moyes has been hanging out with Philadelphia Union lately

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUN 11m
Club tells me any rumours regarding Bob Bradley are false. Independent, informed source tells @TheTorontoSun BB hasn't been contacted. #TFC

Well that's disappointing. Let's hope Vanney does turn out to be an amazing coach.

Can't say I believed it when I saw it. Bradley has a good thing going, wants to compete in Europe and I doubt wants to join a team that is dumping FO left and right. I'd like to see what Bez and Vanney offer first

[OgtheDim]

And maybe even bigger name. David Moyes has been hanging out with Philadelphia Union lately

Moyes can and probably will make a ton of money for a few years as manager of a mid level Premier League team. He's pretty good at working within a budget and getting a lot out of a less then stellar squad.

[notthesun]

New Larson article with Leiweke quotes. Pretty much just dialing back his Ryerson comments.

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/09/18...-on-tfc-issues

[Yohan]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/defoe...c-this-season/

something's a little off here. Vanney finally got to talk to Defoe? Defoe's teammates have easier access to Defoe than the manager?

[Richard]

Its not surprising to me as Defoe cant wait to get out of here, he doesn't really care about who the next coach is.

It was mentioned when Vanney was hired that he had no communication with Defoe, its not surprising at all that he just got to talk to him, there really isn't any respect given for the rookie coach or TFC management. I still very much doubt he will ever play for us again, there are too many reasons to not have him here, or play for us.

[MightyDM]

Yup, Nelsen did not use analytics or tape even. They didn't study opponents, just practice the same formation and style. A lot of the players were frustrated with the lack of 'coaching' going on. As well, the systems being adopted should reduce injury as they will be measuring players 'load' or workrate through training and games. Right now the team is far below optimum 'game shape'.

phil, that is very hard to believe, and is inconsistent with both Nelsens pre game comments and his Premier League and World Cup experience. No preparation for the other team? No tape? I don't buy it, sorry.

[molenshtain]

phil, that is very hard to believe, and is inconsistent with both Nelsens pre game comments and his Premier League and World Cup experience. No preparation for the other team? No tape? I don't buy it, sorry.

Many have suspected that solely from our play this year. It's no wonder the team looks so god damn under-prepared this year.

[MightyDM]

The club will be anxious to justify their decision to fire Nelsen, and will deliberately leak stuff to damage his reputation and try to get supporters on side. I don't buy any of it, other than what I saw on the pitch. On the pitch, I saw a team that had some excellent moments, was in third place, and in the playoffs, although something seemed a bit off since the World Cup. Since Nelsen, I have seen an awful football team. I wish it wasn't, and I hope Vanney is a far better coach than the teams play over three games suggests, but the team has been simply awful, except for the last ten minutes against Chicago. We cannot blame injuries for the poor performances under Vanney, because Nelsen had the team in third and in the playoffs with almost all the same injuries.

[Pookie]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/defoe...c-this-season/

something's a little off here. Vanney finally got to talk to Defoe? Defoe's teammates have easier access to Defoe than the manager?

Yep. That's odd alright.

But then again not really if we all accept that Defoe doesn't really care.

I enjoyed Larso's spin , hated by some and loved by most. Nope. Other way around Kurt.

[Graeme]

The club will be anxious to justify their decision to fire Nelsen, and will deliberately leak stuff to damage his reputation and try to get supporters on side. I don't buy any of it, other than what I saw on the pitch. On the pitch, I saw a team that had some excellent moments, was in third place, and in the playoffs, although something seemed a bit off since the World Cup. Since Nelsen, I have seen an awful football team. I wish it wasn't, and I hope Vanney is a far better coach than the teams play over three games suggests, but the team has been simply awful, except for the last ten minutes against Chicago. We cannot blame injuries for the poor performances under Vanney, because Nelsen had the team in third and in the playoffs with almost all the same injuries.

I fully agree. There's a lot of spin going around, including the Defoe speculation and locker room talk. It doesn't help that Defoe seems to have been singlehandedly responsible for all that's ever gone wrong in Pookie's life.

[manitou22]

The club will be anxious to justify their decision to fire Nelsen, and will deliberately leak stuff to damage his reputation and try to get supporters on side. I don't buy any of it, other than what I saw on the pitch. On the pitch, I saw a team that had some excellent moments, was in third place, and in the playoffs, although something seemed a bit off since the World Cup. Since Nelsen, I have seen an awful football team. I wish it wasn't, and I hope Vanney is a far better coach than the teams play over three games suggests, but the team has been simply awful, except for the last ten minutes against Chicago. We cannot blame injuries for the poor performances under Vanney, because Nelsen had the team in third and in the playoffs with almost all the same injuries.

Yes. Anselmi used to leak inside info to a couple well connected SSH friends of mine that invariably cast his decisions in a positive light.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Yep. That's odd alright.

But then again not really if we all accept that Defoe doesn't really care.

I enjoyed Larso's spin , hated by some and loved by most. Nope. Other way around Kurt.

I didn't read Larso but I'm pretty sure less people hate Defoe than like him and what he's done for this club. You need to look at the fan base in total to see Larso's point. It's not a majority who've heard or believe or care about the back room follies this club has made an unintended spotlight over its history.

Also, when did we start calling him Larso? Do we need a nickname or did I build on a typo?

[Pookie]

I think it started when I tried to type on this $!@$"&$ iPhone

[MartinUtd]

Not sure if this has been posted, but West Ham are keen on Defoe

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...etween-4296093

[Red Skies At Night]

Not sure if this has been posted, but West Ham are keen on Defoe

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...etween-4296093

Given west ham's recent spending on forwards (3 new ones in the summer) I doubt Defoe is truly on their radar. A quote from a highly respected west ham blogger (Claret&Hugh.info):

-But a highly placed source told ClaretandHugh within the last few minutes: “I’m not sure how much more mileage they can squeeze out of this one.We are more than happy with what we have in Enner Valencia, Diafra Sakho, Mauro Zarate and Andy Carroll.
We spent right up to our limits in the window and it’s highly unlikely we’ll be looking in the direction of strikers.”

They are in serious need of a cb or two, so any money spent in January will likely be spent there. Defoe might only become an option should they suffer serious injuries up front, otherwise I think Defoe's going to QPR on a cut price deal.

[MartinUtd]

Carroll could be on his way back to Newcastle so that might open up a spot.

[Phil]

phil, that is very hard to believe, and is inconsistent with both Nelsens pre game comments and his Premier League and World Cup experience. No preparation for the other team? No tape? I don't buy it, sorry.

Look at the SKC game. The same guy scored the same goal on the same TFC players. I called it then, they are not looking at their oppenents from the last game. I asked why we have more coaches than players on the bench, yet that happens and our defenders are not coached or warned against the same play.

The evidence is there to support it if we look for it. I just know there are technical staff working on things now that got ignored before wether that is guys on the tech side measuring heart rate and km's run, or guys collecting tape from around the league that helps us know our oppenents better.

[Initial B]

I could have sworn I heard the Sportsnet commentators talk about how Vanney had been reviewing tapes of Chivas in the week leading up to the match. I don't think I ever heard them say the same of Nelsen.

[Oldtimer]

I could have sworn I heard the Sportsnet commentators talk about how Vanney had been reviewing tapes of Chivas in the week leading up to the match. I don't think I ever heard them say the same of Nelsen.

Vanney talks about it in his post-game interview. The two goals from corners were actually done previously in practice and designed specifically to exploit Chivas' weaknesses.

[Areathrasher]

Vanney talks about it in his post-game interview. The two goals from corners were actually done previously in practice and designed specifically to exploit Chivas' weaknesses.

We only had one goal from corners prior to yesterday, yea?

Progress, I guess

[TOBOR !]

http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/...from-the-cold/

more of what we already suspect.