Nelsen Out, Defoe Possibly to Follow

[Defoe]

My brain hurts.

On the Nelson firing: I don't disagree with it, it was an important game, and his excuses make zero sense (at least have the balls to admit it was a brutal game... Just didn't see the "fire" or "drive" with Nelson, way to by the book) I don't even think there is a word in the English dictionary to describe that crap on Saturday night.. I turned it off at half time. We need a culture change, and Bradley who is our leader didn't look even look a little interested in playing soccer and for a guy with his character that was concerning. Hopefully this addresses it. I've liked what I have heard from Vanney, seems like this can only motivate our team. Good job Bez... your school boy appearance bothers me but I have to agree with your decision.

On Defoe - We pretty much need him right now... he's important in our chances of making the playoffs. That being said, moving him at 11 million does in fact make sense. I'm not even talking about the fact he doesn't want to be here, it's more the fact he's injury prone. If Bez feels he HAS to move him... I won't be complaining. Selling Defoe at 11 million and spending it on a wad of south American talent is financially intelligent as far as I'm concerned. The talent in our own region is just as good, at a fraction of the cost.

All in all, I don't think we're doomed. This season can be saved... the next 2 weeks are crucial.

[denime]

Transfer market is closed,unless Defoe signed contract with QPR today before 5pm EST,he is not going anywhere until January 2015,as far Nelson goes,in my opinion TL should have fired him last year together with the rest of front office,and really start from scratch with experience coach.

[speckles]

Well its a new day. Been trying really hard to support this team this season , but once again the circus strikes. Regardless of weather the game was a high pressure event or not, the timing and optics of this are farcical. I can get my fix with a much higher quality product, like most fans here. You really needed to not screw up right now. If they don't stream ahead now and win well into the playoffs many fan will not forget your misstep Tim B. A smaller less significant TFC will result.

[Marc"2L"]

Transfer market is closed,unless Defoe signed contract with QPR today before 5pm EST,he is not going anywhere until January 2015,as far Nelson goes,in my opinion TL should have fired him last year together with the rest of front office,and really start from scratch with experience coach.

Closes today, Monday September 1 at 11pm bst.

[khso11]

Newcastle wants Defoe too http://talksport.com/football/newcas...ce=twitterfeed . Apparently Leicester City and Arsenal wants him too.

[ginkster88]

Very likely Defoe ends up back in the EPL, even if it's on loan. There was plenty of interest in him before he came here and he absolutely loves being a pro footballer in England.

[Lumpy]

Leicester interested in Defoe as well as QPR and Newcastle

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...a-unfolds.html

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Oduro is an upgrade on Rey at the end of the day, which is what we gave up to get him. You know if we get rid of him he'll go succeed somewhere else.

For Warner, that's true, but that's on Nelsen. We saw his quality when we got him and Bradley wasn't around. He's a solid player.

Creavalle looked good in the little he's played and was used regularly by Houston, a team that's always at least middle of the pack.

Listen, none of them are world beaters, but we gave up allocation order, a guy who's no longer in the league, Nakajima-Farran, and our 5th string CB for the lot. Not exactly spilled milk.

my sentiments exactly. i would like to see what Bez has planned for us then. Then its fair to compare i guess. Overall i dont think Nelsen did all that poorly with his signings. Decent depth for low costs (initially)

[Pookie]

In season firings... Chris Cummins seemed to manage it ok. Players adjusted. As many have highlighted, it seems to have little effect maybe a slight bump. But a slight bump would be enough to get them in.

As for Defoe, I can't see how anyone links these events. Defoe is in England right now people. He left long before the press conference. His handlers have been seeking a move for weeks now. Defoe doesn't want to be here... with or without Nelsen.

[Lumpy]

The study into coaches being fired actually shows that teams who fire coaches with a .500 record did worse after the firing. Teams that were really lousy were the only one's who showed a slight short-lived improvement. Firing our .500 coach means we are statistically doomed for failure.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/spor...-may-even-hurt

[OgtheDim]

*ahem* Will the real Sol Campbell please stand up

EDIT

OK, I obviously misinterpreted a few things.

[flamehawk]

I still agree with Nelsen's firing, but it doesn't fill me with as much confidence to hear that the four trades - despite my initial hesitations about them - that I saw as effective was down to Nelsen and not Bez. It was actually these trades that led me to believe that Bez might have football acumen, but there is less that points to this if Bez not only had nothign to do with them but spoke out against them.

[Kaz]

The study into coaches being fired actually shows that teams who fire coaches with a .500 record did worse after the firing. Teams that were really lousy were the only one's who showed a slight short-lived improvement. Firing our .500 coach means we are statistically doomed for failure.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/spor...-may-even-hurt

you realize that College Football is not Soccer.


And when it is the Coach that is the problem that isn't true.


In the last 13 games we have a record in the bottom 5 of the league.

In the first 11 games we had a record in the top 5 of the league.

Same basic players (Iggy/Warner Oduro/Rey are the only major changes)

The coaching became flat, the drive disappeared. Bradley stopped playing.

All three goals on Saturday had Bradley involved. (missed pass, failed tackle, intercepted ball)

Nelsen has been shut down in the midfield week in and week out and has made no changes. Nelsen knew he was on the block and still did nothing.


First 11 games PPG 1.72 last 13 games PPG 1.08

Nelsen was on track to lose out on the playoffs again, the GM has told him privately that he needs to pick it up, he said it in the press... Tim B saying it was a must win game I think was a public reminder to Nelsen he needs to step it up.. and what's worse he failed... it was a must win game for Nelsen. And now he is gone.

Worse, and I hope I am wrong, I think Nelsen is responsible for killing the morale on Saturday that resulted in that lose. He was upset and he upset the players not Bez. Actually no I want that to be true because the Alternative is that "GM said having one of the worse records in the league since the world cup break with the players we have is bad" and the players are so poor under a little criticism that is true that they folded. Professional athletes are supposed to be able to have thicker skin then that. ... a Doom and Gloom speech from your coach though that might do it. In which case, a change in coaching can be a very good things.

[Kaz]

I still agree with Nelsen's firing, but it doesn't fill me with as much confidence to hear that the four trades - despite my initial hesitations about them - that I saw as effective was down to Nelsen and not Bez. It was actually these trades that led me to believe that Bez might have football acumen, but there is less that points to this if Bez not only had nothign to do with them but spoke out against them.

Were they? since those trades were made, and Nelsen got to play his way... we did worse. Much worse... worse in the league.

What is concerning is that Nelsen has been given this much time. As far as I'm concerned the trades are bad. We haven't played with playmakers. Jackson and Oduro do go back to collect the ball.. take it up the wings, and then cross it in... the wait for a pass from Bradley and then run. In the case of Oduro often leaving him on the edge of the pitch waiting for TFC players to run up so he has someone to cross too... of course the other sides defenders track back just as fast and it negates oduro's run in the first place.

Jackson runs and get stripped of the ball half the time.


Iggy would collect the ball make back and forth runs, come into the box and create chances.

we needed a second iggy style midfielder.

Osorio and Bradley in tandem, Iggy on one side, and second playmaker on the other side (who can cut in), Moore with either Gilberto or Defoe upfront.

Instead we have two sprinters that can't do anything until the defenders catch up and let people get onside... which totally negates their advantage. Sprinters only work if they are goal scorers... sprinters on the wing is useless unless they are box to box

[ensco]

In season firings... Chris Cummins seemed to manage it ok. Players adjusted. As many have highlighted, it seems to have little effect maybe a slight bump. But a slight bump would be enough to get them in.

As for Defoe, I can't see how anyone links these events. Defoe is in England right now people. He left long before the press conference. His handlers have been seeking a move for weeks now. Defoe doesn't want to be here... with or without Nelsen.

The link is Leiweke. His departure itself in Defoe's case, the vacuum it created with respect to the Bez/Nelsen showdown.

The fact that both happened on the exact same day is coincidence.

[flamehawk]

Were they? since those trades were made, and Nelsen got to play his way... we did worse. Much worse... worse in the league.

What is concerning is that Nelsen has been given this much time. As far as I'm concerned the trades are bad. We haven't played with playmakers. Jackson and Oduro do go back to collect the ball.. take it up the wings, and then cross it in... the wait for a pass from Bradley and then run. In the case of Oduro often leaving him on the edge of the pitch waiting for TFC players to run up so he has someone to cross too... of course the other sides defenders track back just as fast and it negates oduro's run in the first place.

Jackson runs and get stripped of the ball half the time.


Iggy would collect the ball make back and forth runs, come into the box and create chances.

we needed a second iggy style midfielder.

Osorio and Bradley in tandem, Iggy on one side, and second playmaker on the other side (who can cut in), Moore with either Gilberto or Defoe upfront.

Instead we have two sprinters that can't do anything until the defenders catch up and let people get onside... which totally negates their advantage. Sprinters only work if they are goal scorers... sprinters on the wing is useless unless they are box to box

Who is Iggy?

I don't know, I absolutely agree that as a team it's been awful since the trades, but based on individual ability these players have impressed me. Too early to say for Creveile though. I think they could play a part with proper management.

[denime]

Closes today, Monday September 1 at 11pm bst.

My bad,I should know better not to post at 2am in the morning after all day of




Arsenal Line Up Shock Move For Former Spurs Striker Jermain Defoe

[ensco]

I like the deals too, best I can tell, but without contract details it has been impossible to truly evaluate those deals. The people at other teams aren't dummies.

This team has a long history of trading for the "better" player only to wind up wearing an ugly contract for a couple of years.

[denime]

Who is Iggy?

I don't know, I absolutely agree that as a team it's been awful since the trades, but based on individual ability these players have impressed me. Too early to say for Creveile though. I think they could play a part with proper management.

I'm assuming it is Issey Nakajima-Farran

[flamehawk]

I'm assuming it is Issey Nakajima-Farran

Ahh..

Well, Kaz, also completely agree that Issey was an asset and I hated to see him go. Me rating Warner is not to say that Issey wasn't a good player. I guess it just helped me see the logic of the move after initially decrying it. I actually wanted to get an Issey jersey. Maybe Montreal would let us have him back, he's been sitting on their bench.

[ensco]

Attfield's story is single source crap. Exactly the same thing that caught him on the Forlan story. He is Nelsen's stenographer, whoop-de-doo.

The trades are secondary. The thing that neither Bez nor Nelsen have shown much aptitude for is the non-DP signing. Nelsen has brought a whole raft of them through with little success. All those deals last year, but nobody of quality except for maybe Bloom and Caldwell, and even then, meh. I know both are quite liked here but I think both are journeymen who have been overrated on these boards - Caldwell in any case was not a "value" pickup relative to O'Dea.

It is also incomplete to look at trades without examining Nelsen's role in 2013, particularly the Silva deal - Nelsen deftly claimed he had nothing to do with it the day Payne left, but he wouldn't play Silva on a horrible team (how does that look now?) and I never believed Nelsen.

[Lumpy]

If the firing of Nelson caused Defoe to leave it would be one of the stupidest moves in sports history. Losing your leading scorer with 10 games to go in a tight playoff race is asinine. Can't think of any other time something like this has occurred in sports.

[Lumpy]

Were they? since those trades were made, and Nelsen got to play his way... we did worse. Much worse... worse in the league.

What is concerning is that Nelsen has been given this much time. As far as I'm concerned the trades are bad. We haven't played with playmakers. Jackson and Oduro do go back to collect the ball.. take it up the wings, and then cross it in... the wait for a pass from Bradley and then run. In the case of Oduro often leaving him on the edge of the pitch waiting for TFC players to run up so he has someone to cross too... of course the other sides defenders track back just as fast and it negates oduro's run in the first place.

Jackson runs and get stripped of the ball half the time.


Iggy would collect the ball make back and forth runs, come into the box and create chances.

we needed a second iggy style midfielder.

Osorio and Bradley in tandem, Iggy on one side, and second playmaker on the other side (who can cut in), Moore with either Gilberto or Defoe upfront.

Instead we have two sprinters that can't do anything until the defenders catch up and let people get onside... which totally negates their advantage. Sprinters only work if they are goal scorers... sprinters on the wing is useless unless they are box to box

Iggy sucks. He hasn't left the bench in the last 6 games for the worst team in the league. Are you suggesting that yet another team is failing to recognize Iggy's talent ???

[v00d00daddy]

I still agree with Nelsen's firing, but it doesn't fill me with as much confidence to hear that the four trades - despite my initial hesitations about them - that I saw as effective was down to Nelsen and not Bez. It was actually these trades that led me to believe that Bez might have football acumen, but there is less that points to this if Bez not only had nothign to do with them but spoke out against them.

Considering I wasn't won over by those four trades (only like one of the four players and downright hate one lol) but I think we need to see who Bez brings in, in terms of depth players, before we say he's bad at it. Which he totally could be. But who knows.

[Globetrotter]

so you are saying we are in a stronger position now, how come?

I dont know if it's a stronger position, it's a different position, which was needed because we weren't going anywhere with Nelson unless he adapted or changed.

[Fort York Redcoat]

In season firings... Chris Cummins seemed to manage it ok. Players adjusted. As many have highlighted, it seems to have little effect maybe a slight bump. But a slight bump would be enough to get them in.

As for Defoe, I can't see how anyone links these events. Defoe is in England right now people. He left long before the press conference. His handlers have been seeking a move for weeks now. Defoe doesn't want to be here... with or without Nelsen.

We all knew Cummins as an assistant, though. While he had much to prove it was apparent that he had been working with the team and the old coach well. Vanney has a lot more to prove in my opinion with a squad that already had issues with performing for a new coach. I think we can agree that while Vanney has more coaching experience, it's not going to dazzle any millionaire's on our team.

[MightyDM]

In light of the news about Defoe, the timing of the leak about Tim L leaving is very curious. If Defoe had left before Tim L's announcement, it would have been a black mark against him. Now it looks like it is because he is going - so its a credit to him. Very curious.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Iggy sucks. He hasn't left the bench in the last 6 games for the worst team in the league. Are you suggesting that yet another team is failing to recognize Iggy's talent ???

Iggy? This Iggy? She's not quite sucking but apparently some people think she's talented.



This one does NOT suck. Well, cigarettes...

[MightyDM]

After sleeping on it, I am quite worried about this whole series of events, which have the potential to seriously destabilize this club. Nelsen had considerable strengths that we will no longer have as an organization with him and Tim L gone, particularly his reputation and the respect people had for him in the world of soccer. An agent could say to a player, "do you want to be part of what Ryan Nelsen is building in Toronto" and they would know what the agent meant. From all reports, his reputation was very positive , as it should be for someone who captained a country with the population of Toronto to an undefeated world cup. No agent is going to say to any player anywhere in the world, even in Montreal and Columbus, "do you want to be part of what Tim Bezbechenko is building?"

We are going to miss his player evaluation skills, which we collectively seem to be taking for granted. Compare the acquisitions on his watch to those on the watch of the other permanent head coaches and he sacks up very, very well, particularly if you judge him post Payne as it seems that's when he has had the most influence.

We are going to miss the Manager's authority in the locker room. if the rumours are true that Bradley disagreed with his tactics, then these actions have just disempowered the manager and empowered the players. That can only end badly (see, United, Manchester). Bradley had the right, as captain, to raise these issues with him but ultimately had to play whatever Nelsen decided, with professionalism and enthusiasm. If he couldn't accept it, he needed to be sat down for a game of two, perhaps with the cover story about recovering from the world cup. Once the position of Manager loses authority, a club is in for a lot of trouble.

We are now in the position of needing shrewd scouting in South America and a producing academy to build for the future. While this may be a good model, if that is where we are going why get rid of Payne - and Laba and Urruti?

I hope Greg Vanney has immediate success, the kind of success that people have predicted because of his work at the RSL and LAG academies. If he doesn't, we are in trouble. At a minimum, we will need a TFC President with heft and respect. And competence. Which sounds a lot like rebuilding. Again.

[Kaz]

Who is Iggy?

My brain farts in odd ways... I was listening to Iggy Pop when I was typing and apparently wrote Iggy instead of Issey.