Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 85
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Beaches
    Posts
    1,277
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default I've HAD IT With Nelsen.....and I used to Be a Big Defender

    Here's his response to putting on Jackson instead of a natural RB like Orr......"“We wanted to put Jackson in there. He’s been pretty good out there at times… Sometimes that right back can get left one-on-one, so we needed a bit of athleticism out there,???

    AT TIMES?

    he just cost you 3 points vs CHI and was BRUTAL in KC...when has he EVER been good at RB??? It's NOT his fault he's a shyte defender, that's not what you got him for....it's 100% YOUR FAULT you play people out of position...

    I'm done....

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    2,706
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I have to agree with you on this. Very frustrating to see what should have been a simple change at the back botched so completely. Can't fault Jackson on this one - he did his best I'm sure but he's out of his element defending.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    112
    Posts
    2,839
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I never want to see Jackson at RB. He's not showing well at all, no idea what he could be doing in practice to warrant being top choice as a substitute.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    265
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The athleticism comment is a red card offence and a direct taxi ride to the airport!

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    7,271
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Was Jackson a good RB in Dallas or something?

    Maybe the "at times" comment refers to past expectations and is an acknowledgement that it didn't work out this time. Hopefully there is no next time.

    Either way if we do get rid of Nelsen I hope it's while TL is still on the clock.

  6. #6
    RPB Member
    Moderator

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Centre of My Bloody Universe.
    Posts
    19,075
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinUtd View Post
    Was Jackson a good RB in Dallas or something?

    Maybe the "at times" comment refers to past expectations and is an acknowledgement that it didn't work out this time. Hopefully there is no next time.

    Either way if we do get rid of Nelsen I hope it's while TL is still on the clock.
    Jackson played back everywhere he's been in the same way. A utility backup. This was a definite slight on Orr unless he's unfit.
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    2,715
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Also found it strange that when Morrow went down we didn't have a guy like Morgan on the bench (where he'd been all season). Would have been better than moving Bloom to LB and then bringing in Jackson to RB.

    I've never been a fan of Nelsen but I have my reasons that may not always be fair.

    But when it comes to substitutions he's been awful since day one. Makes them late, picks the wrong guys for the wrong spots and often the subs are pointless.

    I'd rather Jackson as a winger and moving Osorio in to the middle of the field. But what the hell do we know? LOL Even though many of us have coached as much as he had before TFC signed him. (not one second as a coach)

    LOL

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    8,091
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by v00d00daddy View Post
    Also found it strange that when Morrow went down we didn't have a guy like Morgan on the bench (where he'd been all season). Would have been better than moving Bloom to LB and then bringing in Jackson to RB.

    I've never been a fan of Nelsen but I have my reasons that may not always be fair.

    But when it comes to substitutions he's been awful since day one. Makes them late, picks the wrong guys for the wrong spots and often the subs are pointless.

    I'd rather Jackson as a winger and moving Osorio in to the middle of the field. But what the hell do we know? LOL Even though many of us have coached as much as he had before TFC signed him. (not one second as a coach)

    LOL
    I thought the same about Morgan but it was pointed out yesterday that he was injured and that was reason he wasn't on the bench.

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    7,784
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ryan View Post
    I never want to see Jackson at RB. He's not showing well at all, no idea what he could be doing in practice to warrant being top choice as a substitute.
    I will never know why we didn't put Orr in and move Hagglund over unless Orr isn't fully fit but for just a FB swap, there wasn't anyone else on the bench to choose.

    Pretty clear Jackson isn't FB material. I only like him as a sub for Oduro even though it's like for like. That's it. For me, he is depth and then expansion draft bait.

    On the goals this past weekend, Jackson was to blame for both but Nelsen was right in saying that the midfielders didn't get back to assist on the tying goal. Every one ball watched and were way far out from goal.
    Last edited by Ultra & Proud; 08-26-2014 at 11:48 AM.

  10. #10
    RPB Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    116
    Posts
    21,718
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Funny how about a couple of months ago some people were suggesting Jackson as an upgrade for Bloom....cause Jackson has played RB before.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    2,265
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Could we have not gone with 3 in the back and Bradley playing sweeper like Torsten Frings? Just a thought.

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    8,091
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Funny how about a couple of months ago some people were suggesting Jackson as an upgrade for Bloom....cause Jackson has played RB before.
    I was thinking that too....

  13. #13
    RPB Member
    Moderator

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    On the Interwebs
    Posts
    18,703
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    You guys need to look at the records of the other coaches in this league, not at Jose Mourinho.

    Nelsen does some bad subs. So does Bruce Arena. So does everyone else. If they were better coaches, they wouldn't be in MLS.
    Guess what, we don't need an EPL-quality coach to win this league. Mediocre will do.

    Nelsen is not quite as incompetent as some here think. About 50% of the games his subs seem to be quite good. You have to look at the overall record, not just at one game or one position. His ability was dodgy last year, he's improved quite a bit since then. Maybe next year he'll be better than mediocre and actually be good. I'm not quite ready to throw him under the bus.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    We The North
    Posts
    7,042
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Derko View Post
    Could we have not gone with 3 in the back and Bradley playing sweeper like Torsten Frings? Just a thought.
    Nelsen is too conservative to play 3 in the back.

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    287
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maninb View Post
    Here's his response to putting on Jackson instead of a natural RB like Orr......"“We wanted to put Jackson in there. He’s been pretty good out there at times… Sometimes that right back can get left one-on-one, so we needed a bit of athleticism out there,???

    AT TIMES?

    he just cost you 3 points vs CHI and was BRUTAL in KC...when has he EVER been good at RB??? It's NOT his fault he's a shyte defender, that's not what you got him for....it's 100% YOUR FAULT you play people out of position...

    I'm done....


    immediate thought - Nelson wanted to make Jackson play like Yedlin does

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    265
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    You guys need to look at the records of the other coaches in this league, not at Jose Mourinho.

    Nelsen does some bad subs. So does Bruce Arena. So does everyone else. If they were better coaches, they wouldn't be in MLS.
    Guess what, we don't need an EPL-quality coach to win this league. Mediocre will do.

    Nelsen is not quite as incompetent as some here think. About 50% of the games his subs seem to be quite good. You have to look at the overall record, not just at one game or one position. His ability was dodgy last year, he's improved quite a bit since then. Maybe next year he'll be better than mediocre and actually be good. I'm not quite ready to throw him under the bus.
    Hey Oldtimer;

    I usually agree with you but not this time. Please do not compare Nelson to Arena. Nelson is not even in the same league as Arena (cv, experience, results). LA were floundering for 2 or 3 years after Beckman came and it wasn't until TL hired Arena that desired results came to fruitation. TFC doesn't have 2 more years to figure out they need an experienced coach to guide them to the finals.

  17. #17
    RPB Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    116
    Posts
    21,718
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Derko View Post
    Could we have not gone with 3 in the back and Bradley playing sweeper like Torsten Frings? Just a thought.
    Bradley doesn't have the inclination to be that defensive. Warner would be a better option. But, 3 at the back would probably be too difficult a transition for this team in the middle of a game. That, and MLS is a league where LB and RB's bomb down as much as they can to cause overlaps. We would need some decent WB's to play 3 at the back.

  18. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    112
    Posts
    2,839
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    Nelsen is too conservative to play 3 in the back.
    Could have sworn I've seen it this season....

    The game where Henry scored late to win I believe we did for the final 20 minutes. Could be wrong, memory can be foggy at the best of times.

  19. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    3,073
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    You guys need to look at the records of the other coaches in this league, not at Jose Mourinho.

    Nelsen does some bad subs. So does Bruce Arena. So does everyone else. If they were better coaches, they wouldn't be in MLS.
    Guess what, we don't need an EPL-quality coach to win this league. Mediocre will do.

    Nelsen is not quite as incompetent as some here think. About 50% of the games his subs seem to be quite good. You have to look at the overall record, not just at one game or one position. His ability was dodgy last year, he's improved quite a bit since then. Maybe next year he'll be better than mediocre and actually be good. I'm not quite ready to throw him under the bus.
    A-fucking-men.

    And on the point about Orr, he's never looked as comfortable since we stopped sitting so deep after the WC break. He got caught out numerous times because of his pace and his play dropped overall. People really think Orr would have been better than Jackson in that scenario against SKC? Really? or do people just like shitting on Nelsen because he's never been a coach before?

    I actually had this interaction with someone from work who also has tickets. He told me he thought Nelsen was gone. That he wasn't achieving anything, He didn't know what he was doing, that the results weren't good enough. I then asked him how good he thought our squad was. he said that while we weren't in the upper echelon of teams like RSL, SKC, or seattle, we should definitely be making the playoffs comfortably. "about second or third in the conference" he said. I asked him if he knew we were third in our conference with at least a game at hand on everyone around us and an incredibly easy run-in. He said he knew and shrugged his shoulders.

    Essentially, I believe lots of people here, and TFC fans everywhere who don't like Nelsen, can't tell the difference between an adequate coaching job and a bad coaching job. I agree with my friend. This team is good for 3rd in the east on talent alone right now, and Nelsen is good enough to keep us there. A bad coach would have us lower than that. A good coach would probably have us higher than that. Nelsen may very well turn into a good coach and we will most certainly have better teams in the future. I'd like to see how Nelsen would do in Vermes' or Schmidt's place.

    After crossing the fucking desert that was the first 7 years of this club, I feel people focusing and getting super angry about how shit our coach is for only having us in third place is kind of childish. Why don't we have a thread about how awesome the foreseeable future is going to be and about how we're going to be hosting a playoff (fucking playoffs!!!!)game for the first time ever? But no, we won't have that. Because people watch Man City and Chelsea in the morning and then come to the stadium that night and get angry because it's not the same product.
    Last edited by molenshtain; 08-26-2014 at 02:46 PM.

  20. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    beautiful downtown bolton
    Posts
    4,354
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    RN system has improved this season its called the defoe,gilberto have scored big goals this season system.

  21. #21
    RPB Member
    Moderator

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    On the Interwebs
    Posts
    18,703
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by A Stick View Post
    Hey Oldtimer;

    I usually agree with you but not this time. Please do not compare Nelson to Arena.
    I just said Arena makes mistakes, not that Nelsen is anywhere as good as him. But both of them are so below the level of your average EPL coach... you might say they are in the same league (and actually they are ).

    People need to get real with what MLS-level coaching is. I can't think of a single MLS coach that would make it in the top 4 leagues.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

  22. #22
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    8,091
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    RN system has improved this season its called the defoe,gilberto have scored big goals this season system.
    That's true of a lot of coaches. ie. the RVP scored system employed by Alex Ferguson two years ago when they won the EPL title.

  23. #23
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    624
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Derko View Post
    Could we have not gone with 3 in the back and Bradley playing sweeper like Torsten Frings? Just a thought.

    When building a play from the back, this tends to happen naturally

  24. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Scarborough
    Posts
    7,784
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    RN system has improved this season its called the defoe,gilberto have scored big goals this season system.
    I disagree. With these players we look more fluid going forward but we've lost the shape and defensive grit we had last year. Probably because Jeremy Hall doesn't play anymore

  25. #25
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    on the TTC
    Posts
    1,241
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maninb View Post
    and I used to Be a Big Defender
    You should have said so earlier! TFC really needs another big defender right now because of all the injuries!

  26. #26
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    5,662
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Let's replace him with Louis van Gaal.

  27. #27
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    5,267
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I agree with Oldtimer not time to throw Nelly under the bus yet. We got caught. It happens. It was an overall defensive breakdown. This is where I believe keeping Laba would have been the best.

    He would never get caught that high up the field and be has the pace to get back into a play. I'd rather one of Warner or Bradley be told to hold that spot in between the backline and the midfield and never get caught up high. If that means he's not usually in the play going forward that's fine by me.

    Were a counter attacking club the way were set up. We have to be soild in the back and keeping a dedicated holding mid back there will help.

  28. #28
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    483
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    All Nelsen was saying was that he wanted someone who could keep up 1v1 vs a very tricky and quick winger. Orr, I guess in his books, is too slow to handle these mls wingers and thats why he always plays inside.

  29. #29
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    F5
    Posts
    15,304
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I read it as "and he used to be a big defender", haha!

    I look at it this way: we are playing NE, CHI, and PHI to clinch a spot in the post season. If we can't win these games, the story has written itself. No excuse for finishing below those teams.

  30. #30
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    16,746
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BuSaPuNk View Post
    I agree with Oldtimer not time to throw Nelly under the bus yet. We got caught. It happens. It was an overall defensive breakdown. This is where I believe keeping Laba would have been the best.

    He would never get caught that high up the field and be has the pace to get back into a play. I'd rather one of Warner or Bradley be told to hold that spot in between the backline and the midfield and never get caught up high. If that means he's not usually in the play going forward that's fine by me.

    Were a counter attacking club the way were set up. We have to be soild in the back and keeping a dedicated holding mid back there will help.
    I'm going to stick my neck out on this one. I've been critical and supportive of him, depending on the circumstance.

    I think Nelsen has the potential to be a really good coach.

    BUT...

    (And it's a big but)

    ...I think his tactical issue is the exact opposite of what people are complaining about. I think he overthinks and overexercises their tactical approach;he's not too conservative at all; he's too progressive.

    Here's why: If you study how our shape changes during games, you'll find we're actually playing a fluid system, which he changes from a 442 into whatever he thinks best suits the next opponent.

    Our opening shape is always something like this (ignore the player selec, irrelevant to the topic right now):

    -------------------Bendik----------------------
    Bloom-----Caldwell-----Henry----------Morrow
    Oduro-------Bradley---Warner-------Osorio
    ------------Gilberto----Defoe----------------

    BUT, in every game, in our offensive zone we've shifted out of this into something designed to provide better one-on-one matchups against opponents.

    Against Seattle, it was a diamond:
    ---------------Bradley---------------
    ---Rey------------------Jackson------
    ---------------Osorio-------------------


    Against KC, it was a three-man middle with Osorio coming inside and Warner dropping off

    -----------------------Warner----------------------------
    -------------Oduro--Bradley--Osorio----------------------

    Against DC, it was a 4-1-1, with Gilberto dropping behind Moore; at Montreal, it was a straight 442 again.

    Here's the problem: we've seen about ten different offensive permutations this season. How the heck does he expect our players to get into an understanding of each other if they have different positional responsibilities every week?

    I can see this kind of approach working in the very long-term; but you'd have to hold a team together for at least two or three seasons before the changes stuck and .... (and it's a big AND) you need players smart enough to do this.

    If you have Premiership- or La Liga-quality players who've been in organized systems since the age of ten, moved into pro coaches by age fifteen at the latest, you STILL would probably only get this much tactical ambition offensively from a handful of the top teams with the top players. It's... one of the reasons they're top teams with top players.

    But if you look at it from the position of an ambitious young coach who has always excelled as a player, reaching the top of the game, it's easier to see why he might have convinced himself that he can use a fluid structure like this to build a Ferguson-style dynasty; to literally "outcoach" the rest of MLS.

    ANd maybe he's right in the long-term. But I have to think that in the short term if we concentrated on two or three offensive sets at most, instead of adapting constantly, the results would be a lot more positive. YOu don't need ten formations in football to win. No one ever has.

    I have to believe that much movement affects the defensive end, too, creating transitional holes between our lines of defense that can be exploited. It's only logical that that's going to happen when you have guys drifting in and out all the time.

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •