Matchday 24: New England at Toronto, Sat 30 Aug 5pm

[v00d00daddy]

I'm not sure that Winter applies to the "every coach has been the same" ideas that have been thrown around here.

He came when we were changing the entire mentality of football in this city (and I was hoping in this nation) and he was up front and honest about it being a long term thing. That it would take time for he and DeKlerk to get the team playing a certain way. To acquire players who have learned the game a certain way. To implement the academy so they could develop young kids in to players that would one day help the senior team (whether it was by playing or being sold).

And it was all fucked over by the typical coach we've had. Mariner.

Yes…our record was awful under Winter. And I don't even care if the club wanted to blame him and fire him for it. But they should have kept the mentality.

Instead…the club looked at the stands and panicked and promoted Mariner, followed by hiring a guy that would appeal to a certain part of the crowd. Purchased players that appeal to a certain part of the crowd and they felt like they saved this club.

And they haven't. And it's sad.

Who cares if we win a few games when it can be seen that we still suck. Who cares if we win a few games when the football is brutal to watch, easy for opposition to figure out and will never, ever lead to being an elite team. We were content with building to mediocrity.

We hired a player and named him a coach. And his ego as a player made it so he was fired. And he deserved it.

[Pookie]

Difference between Bez and Payne is that thus far, Bez seems to want to hold on to draft picks.

Payne to me was a dichotomy. He talked about youth and signed Laba like players. Then traded down in the draft losing out on Mennah. Seemed inconsistent. I guess there was a goal to it but it just didn't line up.

[notthesun]

But if we're talking about roster players (i.e. non-DPs) I don't see how Payne was any better than Bez. The successes (more or less) were Caldwell, Bendik, Osorio, and Bloom. I would add Dike but he was a known injury-prone striker who promptly got injured. Mediocre signings were Earnshaw, Rey, Convey, Richter, and then there were a bunch of failures (the loans from England, Elmer, Brockie). And he traded Silva for nothing.

I don't think anyone misses any of the players Bez has let go. Oduro for Rey was an upgrade, Warner for Issey was an upgrade. Got Creavalle from Houston. Moore has played fairly well. The loan for Orr is a decent move, we especially needed him earlier in the year. Morrow is the best LB we've ever had and Jackson, frustrating as he is at times, can definitely contribute in this league.

Not a fan of trying to rate each signing by how obvious or easy it appeared to be, by the way. If the GM signs a player he gets the credit or the blame, that's pretty much how the job works.

[speckles]

So Nelson has been fired, there was obviously more to this than just the comments...now lets see how far TFC plunges...the players can't hide now behind their manager

[Kaz]

When you have a 12 million dollar roster and are being rolled over.. the Coach takes the blame. And in this case rightfully so.


And you know I'm starting to think the guys on the pitch were affected.. by Nelsen Whining. If he wanted to keep his job he should have gone out there and done his job. Instead he set the team up to fall... That alone is reason for him to go.

[Fort York Redcoat]

When you have a 12 million dollar roster and are being rolled over.. the Coach takes the blame. And in this case rightfully so.


And you know I'm starting to think the guys on the pitch were affected.. by Nelsen Whining. If he wanted to keep his job he should have gone out there and done his job. Instead he set the team up to fall... That alone is reason for him to go.

inception.

He should go for whining in defense of his players, setting them up to fail? He should have been harder on them and they would've responded with hard work? Is there a guarantee in there somewhere?

[Kaz]

inception.

He should go for whining in defense of his players, setting them up to fail? He should have been harder on them and they would've responded with hard work? Is there a guarantee in there somewhere?

We don't know what happened. A good leader would have got the guys psyched to play. Not dwelling on this crap... there is no harder, there is motivation.

After every game the man whines about something.. oh the ref was unfair, the ball did fall well, the other team was playing dirty, we have injuries.... He never says.. I screwed up. Or The Ref was a little harsh but we should have got around that and done better, we need to fix that...

He blames others and takes no responsibility... yesterday we lose and it isn't his fault... nope.. can't be his fault.. it was Bez thinks we haven't done well enough so the adult men were sad and couldn't perform because their feelings were hurt.

[molenshtain]

We don't know what happened. A good leader would have got the guys psyched to play. Not dwelling on this crap... there is no harder, there is motivation.

After every game the man whines about something.. oh the ref was unfair, the ball did fall well, the other team was playing dirty, we have injuries.... He never says.. I screwed up. Or The Ref was a little harsh but we should have got around that and done better, we need to fix that...

He blames others and takes no responsibility... yesterday we lose and it isn't his fault... nope.. can't be his fault.. it was Bez thinks we haven't done well enough so the adult men were sad and couldn't perform because their feelings were hurt.

If you actually watched any of pressers this season or last he routinely says that if you want to put blame in anyone for a bad performance, you should put it on him. He even said it yesterday.

I remember at least two pressers this season were he said the team didn't play well enough. There's lots of mythical narratives surrounding Nelsen's tenure. Or any TFC manager's tenure for that matter.

[ag futbol]

If you actually watched any of pressers this season or last he routinely says that if you want to put blame in anyone for a bad performance, you should put it on him. He even said it yesterday.

I remember at least two pressers this season were he said the team didn't play well enough. There's lots of mythical narratives surrounding Nelsen's tenure. Or any TFC manager's tenure for that matter.

Explicitly that's what he said. Implicitly it was him blaming just about everything but himself.

[molenshtain]

Explicitly that's what he said. Implicitly it was him blaming just about everything but himself.

Ha, what? If I say Don't blame the players, it's my fault for picking them and not getting them prepared properly, how is that deflecting blame? Nelsen talks tons of shit about refs and other teams and other outside factors. But every coach does that. before yesterday, Nelsen's pressers were not what was wrong with his coaching.

[Morlesio14]

Fire nelsen the cunt

Bump

[Kaz]

HE might say it's his fault.. after he blames everything else. It is ultimately my fault, but the ref was unfair, the other team was dirty, we had bad luck.. but the guys all played well. He doesn't believe he has to improve.

I actually I'm pretty sure I said I saw this coming.. I've been saying for a while that other teams have figured him out, and that if I was right we'd have 33 or fewer points by this points. I have never been wrong.. but I suspected that we weren't going to make the play-offs two months ago, if changes weren't made.

Our record since Jun 27ths has been 3 - 5 - 5

Last year last season the same games (12-24) we were 3 - 6 - 4

12 million dollars with Nelsen got us one extra draw. If Nelsen is left in charge and we pick up just 10 points between now and the end of the season.. we won't be in a play off spot.

[v00d00daddy]

Ha, what? If I say Don't blame the players, it's my fault for picking them and not getting them prepared properly, how is that deflecting blame? Nelsen talks tons of shit about refs and other teams and other outside factors. But every coach does that. before yesterday, Nelsen's pressers were not what was wrong with his coaching.

It's obvious bullshit because he (more than once) said "don't blame the players, blame me" and then did the exact same thing next game and played the same players in the same wrong spots but during games at halftime interviews he complains about player mistakes.

He's a typical player. Not a typical coach.

[ag futbol]

Ha, what? If I say Don't blame the players, it's my fault for picking them and not getting them prepared properly, how is that deflecting blame? Nelsen talks tons of shit about refs and other teams and other outside factors. But every coach does that. before yesterday, Nelsen's pressers were not what was wrong with his coaching.

It's like if you say you're really sorry for punching me in the face and then you turn around and kick me in the shins. He takes "full responsibility" but continually bemoans the officials or whatever else he feels didn't go exactly his way on the day.

Every coach does not blame the officials constantly, especially at the level Nelsen does. It's like an ongoing dialog every week about how he was wronged.

[pdubs]

it is Bez's team. No doubt.

[Fort York Redcoat]

There's lots of mythical narratives surrounding Nelsen's tenure. Or any TFC manager's tenure for that matter.

Great point.

Explicitly that's what he said. Implicitly it was him blaming just about everything but himself.

But what about telepathically?

Just a joke. We (us here on the board) may tell a better story than what we'll get from the media sometimes. It's never boring!

[PizzaEatingYeti]

We (us here on the board) may tell a better story than what we'll get from the media sometimes. It's never boring!

Yep!
Reading these boards is more entertaining than 75% of all games played by TFC were since the team's existence.
Honestly!