Tim Leiweke leaving MLSE

[Qman]

Not a very economical way of building though. Build the roof, then take part of the roof off, then add seats, then put the roof back up and then, a few years down the road take another part of the roof off, build some more seats and then put the roof back on again?

I understand your concern about an over abundance seats. That fear is valid but you have to build enough seats to make the cost of construction worthwhile even if you don't sell all the seat out at once.

I'm no engineer, but from the mock up, the roof is higher than both second decks and not tied in. It just sits over the seats like a big rectanglar umbrella . But see ur point.

[ensco]

^Leiweke has burned bridges wherever he went. They hate him in KC. Bogers will demonize him soon, just as soon as they decide which stenographer they will tell the "real" story about Leiweke.

http://www.kcconfidential.com/2013/03/19/hearne-2/

I love Leiweke's moxie but doubt that his business vision for TFC was correct. He was using our little team to try to get things for the Leafs. I was torn by that, as a fan of both.

I think he would have done great things for the Leafs, that is the real loss. He understood what the Leafs could be.

[reggie]

^Leiweke has burned bridges wherever he went. They hate him in KC. Bogers will demonize him soon, just as soon as they decide which stenographer they will tell the "real" story about Leiweke.

http://www.kcconfidential.com/2013/03/19/hearne-2/

I love Leiweke's moxie but doubt that his business vision for TFC was correct. He was using our little team to try to get things for the Leafs. I was torn by that, as a fan of both.

I think he would have done great things for the Leafs, that is the real loss. He understood what the Leafs could be.

oh yah I forgot, they are rebuilding bmo so the leafs can play 15-20 outdoor games a yr...

[james]

I am not really sure how much Leiweke actually did in Toronto. He was here for a short time, but in that time the Leafs failed to make the playoffs, Raptors didn't start winning until they traded away there top players in what I think was a bid to save money and start another re-building club the following year (which oddly they actually then started winning, this was not part of the game plan I am sure) And TFC, well we have been playing decent, but we are not destroying the league by any means, we are still fighting for a playoff spot. And I think when you spend $100 million in MLS, you dam well better be a contender to be champions. I also think MLSE had to buy big name players whether Leiweke joined the MLSE team or not, TFC had 7 bad years, prices had gone up and up, and attendance reneweal this year would of dropped drastically had they not made any big signings and I think MLSE knew this, they didn't need Leiweke to tell them they needed some new big players.

I also had some concerns about Leiweke using TFC for other reasons then benefiting TFC fans. It seemed he wanted to put major money into renovating BMO field, but was he really just putting the money in to host Winter Leafs games? and to get the Argos to play at BMO field? He even stated he wanted Argos to play at BMO field despite the worries from many TFC fans!

But all that said, it does make you worry what will happen in the future, MLSE has a bad record of creating a winning team. They jsut seem to care about dollars and don't know anything about winning. It also makes you wonder why Leiweke left so early, does it have to do with MLSE board of directors being inpossable to work with?

[ManUtd4ever]

I am not really sure how much Leiweke actually did in Toronto. He was here for a short time, but in that time the Leafs failed to make the playoffs, Raptors didn't start winning until they traded away there top players in what I think was a bid to save money and start another re-building club the following year (which oddly they actually then started winning, this was not part of the game plan I am sure) And TFC, well we have been playing decent, but we are not destroying the league by any means, we are still fighting for a playoff spot. And I think when you spend $100 million in MLS, you dam well better be a contender to be champions. I also think MLSE had to buy big name players whether Leiweke joined the MLSE team or not, TFC had 7 bad years, prices had gone up and up, and attendance reneweal this year would of dropped drastically had they not made any big signings and I think MLSE knew this, they didn't need Leiweke to tell them they needed some new big players.

I also had some concerns about Leiweke using TFC for other reasons then benefiting TFC fans. It seemed he wanted to put major money into renovating BMO field, but was he really just putting the money in to host Winter Leafs games? and to get the Argos to play at BMO field? He even stated he wanted Argos to play at BMO field despite the worries from many TFC fans!

But all that said, it does make you worry what will happen in the future, MLSE has a bad record of creating a winning team. They jsut seem to care about dollars and don't know anything about winning. It also makes you wonder why Leiweke left so early, does it have to do with MLSE board of directors being inpossable to work with?

Valid points regarding Leiweke's immediate impact, but I think he does deserve credit for the quality of the people he hired, which should bode well for all three franchises moving forward.

[Ultra & Proud]

Valid points regarding Leiweke's immediate impact, but I think he does deserve credit for the quality of the people he hired, which should bode well for all three franchises moving forward.

This would be his main and most important contribution for sure. This was a strength of his. Credit for working out a new Raptors practise facility too and the BMO reno if it still happens.

On that last point, anyone think the Argos to BMO just took a massive hit now that TL is gone? In judging everyone's points about a new CEO not wanting to spend so highly, to me that means not buying a team who loses money annually in a rent free stadium and why pay any extra cash to fix up BMO to house a team where the owners don't want to pitch in a dime to play anywhere? In my eyes that deal is dead as dead gets now. Trying to buy the losing Argos was probably a TL thing, maybe with eyes on NFL.

[MightyDM]

The thing we are going to miss about Tim L is that he is an outsider. Too much of the Toronto sports scene, and the Leafs in particular, is the good old boys network. Larry T has been brilliant at that in gaining and then maintaining his position, and he has contributed well on the stadium side - which makes sense, given that construction is his business - but historically who you know matters more than what you know in the Toronto sports business. Why was Paul Godfrey President of the Jays? Not for his baseball knowledge, that's for certain. I have to suspect there were people working against Liewike from the beginning because he was the outsider. It is also a factor in the Argos to BMO - Mark Cohon has worked his connections quite brilliantly.

[tiberius]

...

I love Leiweke's moxie but doubt that his business vision for TFC was correct. He was using our little team to try to get things for the Leafs. I was torn by that, as a fan of both.

I think he would have done great things for the Leafs, that is the real loss. He understood what the Leafs could be.

Here is the bottom line: We all should really, really enjoy this season, right now. If we are quite fortunate, we will also have the pleasure of a happy 2015 season...

Tim brought good people in by selling them on a winning vision- they definitely aren't going to stick around if the apparent dysfunction of Curly, Moe and Larry on the board is true. They may wait to see what the TL replacement looks like, but then all bets are off - good, talented people work where they want to - they don't have to (and usually don't) put up with dysfunctional, looser mentality crap. Leiweke was our rabbi - he had a vision to win and he looked after us. The chances of that happening again are between slim and none - and slim left town last week.

How fast will Bez, Defoe and Bradley run to the the lifeboats? Will they get to the lifeboats before they are forced to walk the plank? I suspect we have little time ... We better slow down and savor what is happening on the field right now... this may be as good as it gets...

[boban]

Sure, purely as a fan, I love all the moves Leiweke has made, but the truth of the matter is that his model for success is not sustainable based on the revenue that MLS franchises generate. TFC is going to bleed money for a while. We might make the playoffs, but what good is that if the club is led to financial ruin in the process?

Many MLS clubs have proven that it is entirely possible to build a successful organization without the need to spend 100 million dollars on two players.

Totally agree with your last point, but as we have seen the last 7 seven years MLSE is incapable of doing that.

But who said they are going to bleed money. MLSE has been raping its clientele on TFC for 7 years. There is a trove of cash with this team.
And you would only lose money if you don't do anything with your investment. They need to expand the stadium.
Toronto is a soccer market that can make oodles of cash for the owners. Expanding the stadium to ~35,000 (which T.O. can no doubt support with a competitive team), and even doubling the team payroll to $30M, TFC can still make more profit than ML or Raptors if properly nurtured.
MLSE growth in profits rides with TFC, not with the Leafs (TV tapped out, payroll approaching $80M, etc). Problem is no one at MLSE sees it that way

[Alonso]

Totally agree with your last point, but as we have seen the last 7 seven years MLSE is incapable of doing that.

But who said they are going to bleed money. MLSE has been raping its clientele on TFC for 7 years. There is a trove of cash with this team.
And you would only lose money if you don't do anything with your investment. They need to expand the stadium.
Toronto is a soccer market that can make oodles of cash for the owners. Expanding the stadium to ~35,000 (which T.O. can no doubt support with a competitive team), and even doubling the team payroll to $30M, TFC can still make more profit than ML or Raptors if properly nurtured.
MLSE growth in profits rides with TFC, not with the Leafs (TV tapped out, payroll approaching $80M, etc). Problem is no one at MLSE sees it that way

Totally agree.

All the potential growth is with football and TFC

[East York]

I'm sure Cathal Kelly will have a bullshit article out in a few hours straight from the horses mouth

That funny, because Cathal did end up writing some crappy love story about old Timmy boy. According to Cathal, Tim can turn water into wine. Made me sick to read it

[East York]

[QUOTE=TFC07;1688470]Blue Jays are getting pretty much equal or some of their games better ratings than CFL (especially Argos) this year, so I don't believe you on that part.

How we know it was Rogers blocking the deal? Can you back up your claim? What if Bell or LT didn't like the deal ($10 million and percentage of Grey Cup profit) either? I personally don't believe Argos are worth $10 million and percentage of future Grey Cup in Toronto profit so I believe all parties in MLSE voted no that deal.[/QUOT
From what I read it was Rogers that voted No, don't know where your getting the ratings from, but going on BBM and media TV rating sites, the Argos still beat the Jays 70% of the time

[East York]

Agreed. I don't understand why Agros fans want TFC/soccer to fail when they need them for order to make BMO field profitable for City and MLSE. TFC are main tenants who will be using BMO field more than anyone else. Without professional soccer, BMO field wouldn't be profitable and city will end up getting rid of BMO field to save money and built something else.

There's a reason why other CFL owners are looking into owning professional soccer team and talking with CSA to potentially form all Canadian soccer league.



No.

i don't understand that thinking either, but it does go both ways, there are some TFC fans that would like the Argos to fold too, which I don't get. We have a country with few tradition, killing the oldest football team in the world, is not somthing I could ever understand. If anything, TFC and Argos fans should work together our base is not like the Corporate suits, that watch the Leafs and Jays

[Qman]

i don't understand that thinking either, but it does go both ways, there are some TFC fans that would like the Argos to fold too, which I don't get. We have a country with few tradition, killing the oldest football team in the world, is not somthing I could ever understand. If anything, TFC and Argos fans should work together our base is not like the Corporate suits, that watch the Leafs and Jays

totally agree. more we work together, better stadium we will get, and as a result better experience for both teams. Its REAL fans that come out for both teams, not some Bay Street Suit with platinum leaf seats.

[Pookie]

Generally, this move should be neutral for most MLSE teams. The Leafs are a massive billion dollar organization with infrastructure out the arse. Hiring a stats guy and a new President may impact but they have had Presidents with vision before. Slogans on the wall might impact but probably not really. Coaches have come and gone. The real key to winning is finding and developing players and that will take time as free agency is mattering less and less. That is Shanahan's biggest opportunity to impact change.

For TFC the infrastructure question is huge. This is an organization with a big player payroll and not a lot of other meat on the bones. If profitability becomes a target, player salaries is where they will go.

The challenge for Bez will be to then find a new avenue for players. They aren't coming from the Academy so we are back to scouting and player development. He would likely have to argue for an expanded budget and would probably use savings on cuts to the big name budget to do so.

If TL is parting ways for visionary reasons, what are the odds that they replace him with a like minded guy? Not likely IMO. I would wager that Bez will be put to the test sooner rather than later. And I have faith that he will succeed.

One thing I really respected about TL is that he was approachable. I say that from a personal level. If you reached out to him, I trust you will have found his responsiveness without question.

Best of luck.

[C.Ronaldo]

Generally, this move should be neutral for most MLSE teams. The Leafs are a massive billion dollar organization with infrastructure out the arse. Hiring a stats guy and a new President may impact but they have had Presidents with vision before. Slogans on the wall might impact but probably not really. Coaches have come and gone. The real key to winning is finding and developing players and that will take time as free agency is mattering less and less. That is Shanahan's biggest opportunity to impact change.

For TFC the infrastructure question is huge. This is an organization with a big player payroll and not a lot of other meat on the bones. If profitability becomes a target, player salaries is where they will go.

The challenge for Bez will be to then find a new avenue for players. They aren't coming from the Academy so we are back to scouting and player development. He would likely have to argue for an expanded budget and would probably use savings on cuts to the big name budget to do so.

If TL is parting ways for visionary reasons, what are the odds that they replace him with a like minded guy? Not likely IMO. I would wager that Bez will be put to the test sooner rather than later. And I have faith that he will succeed.

One thing I really respected about TL is that he was approachable. I say that from a personal level. If you reached out to him, I trust you will have found his responsiveness without question.

Best of luck.

why isnt it coming form the acadamy?

[Fort York Redcoat]

Generally, this move should be neutral for most MLSE teams. The Leafs are a massive billion dollar organization with infrastructure out the arse. Hiring a stats guy and a new President may impact but they have had Presidents with vision before. Slogans on the wall might impact but probably not really. Coaches have come and gone. The real key to winning is finding and developing players and that will take time as free agency is mattering less and less. That is Shanahan's biggest opportunity to impact change.

For TFC the infrastructure question is huge. This is an organization with a big player payroll and not a lot of other meat on the bones. If profitability becomes a target, player salaries is where they will go.

The challenge for Bez will be to then find a new avenue for players. They aren't coming from the Academy so we are back to scouting and player development. He would likely have to argue for an expanded budget and would probably use savings on cuts to the big name budget to do so.

If TL is parting ways for visionary reasons, what are the odds that they replace him with a like minded guy? Not likely IMO. I would wager that Bez will be put to the test sooner rather than later. And I have faith that he will succeed.

One thing I really respected about TL is that he was approachable. I say that from a personal level. If you reached out to him, I trust you will have found his responsiveness without question.

Best of luck.

why isnt it coming form the acadamy?

Why should they? I think the expectations on kids coming up should be one a year maybe. Most professional clubs would be happy with that average plus a couple moving to NASL, USLpro, or elsewhere.

Pook has given full credit to Bez in making the (not supposed to be but is) tough acquisitions of the league workmen (Wagner, Cravaelle). If he can make at least one or two a year would be satisfactory to keep us where we want to be.

[ensco]

reggie:

I don't hate Leiweke. At all. I admire him.

He was playing the game at a different level, and it took me a long time to figure out where he was going, which is to get big things done for the Leafs, with subsidies, by disguising what he was doing as a civic minded thing targeted mostly at the soccer team. None of this means he was insincere about the soccer team, but I say it's not where he was really going. TFC was a sideshow to the main event, which is hockey at BMO.

Leiweke left because was starting to run into what getting big things done for the Leafs really means, which means spending hundreds of millions, and taking on Bettman, hard. Neither of which Bogers can support. He is not a caretaker of anything, but I am afraid that is the Bogers reality. this is a defensive, not an offensive, asset for them.

From a Leaf perspective, I am really sorry to see Leiweke go. He never said a thing in public about any of this, but this is the outline of what I think he was trying to do; have an arena that could have lots of outdoor hockey, and keep all the revenues off that for MLSE. The Leafs get screwed left, right and center by the NHL, need a vision and money to fix it, and he saw that. He could have built billions in value, and maybe even got rid of the cap someday (which has been death for the Leafs, no team in any sport has been more hurt by a cap system).

From TFC's perspective, I was always worried that his plan was doomed, there just isn't the latent interest in MLS soccer here that he claims, and I was/am worried about the implications of a catastrophic failure of Leiweke's TFC plan. I think Leiweke knew that, but if TFC were roadkill for making the Leafs great, so be it.

What this business case could be for MLSE spending $100M at BMO, I have no idea. It isn't to play a hockey game or two, host a few concerts, and tickets sales for TFC. Those things aren't worth close to the $10-20M incremental profit (not revenue) you need to see to make the BMO expansion worthwhile

[reggie]

fair enough Ensco...I don't know what his agenda is,but maybe jus maybe he does care for the fans,that tin can on the lakeshore is a highschool stadium, cold wet not enough washrooms,im glad we are getting a upgrade.

[Supporting]

reggie:

I don't hate Leiweke. At all. I admire him.

He was playing the game at a different level, and it took me a long time to figure out where he was going, which is to get big things done for the Leafs, with subsidies, by disguising what he was doing as a civic minded thing targeted mostly at the soccer team. None of this means he was insincere about the soccer team, but I say it's not where he was really going. TFC was a sideshow to the main event, which is hockey at BMO.

Leiweke left because was starting to run into what getting big things done for the Leafs really means, which means spending hundreds of millions, and taking on Bettman, hard. Neither of which Bogers can support. He is not a caretaker of anything, but I am afraid that is the Bogers reality. this is a defensive, not an offensive, asset for them.

From a Leaf perspective, I am really sorry to see Leiweke go. He never said a thing in public about any of this, but this is the outline of what I think he was trying to do; have an arena that could have lots of outdoor hockey, and keep all the revenues off that for MLSE. The Leafs get screwed left, right and center by the NHL, need a vision and money to fix it, and he saw that. He could have built billions in value, and maybe even got rid of the cap someday (which has been death for the Leafs, no team in any sport has been more hurt by a cap system).

From TFC's perspective, I was always worried that his plan was doomed, there just isn't the latent interest in MLS soccer here that he claims, and I was/am worried about the implications of a catastrophic failure of Leiweke's TFC plan. I think Leiweke knew that, but if TFC were roadkill for making the Leafs great, so be it.

What this business case could be for MLSE spending $100M at BMO, I have no idea. It isn't to play a hockey game or two, host a few concerts, and tickets sales for TFC. Those things aren't worth close to the $10-20M incremental profit (not revenue) you need to see to make the BMO expansion worthwhile

wutt?

could you simplify what you said into like 5 bullet points?

[Laurignano]

Is there a way I could reach out to Tim L and beg him to stay? Lol This team is falling apart now...he is vital to our sport teams, he has a vision and can sell it, and he has the ability / reputation to bring big name players to Toronto....we are losing a valuable ally.

[tfcleeds]

I go away for three weeks, and all hell breaks loose at this club. Leiweke leaving MLSE, Nelsen sacked, Defoe looking like he might not wear TFC red again? Never a dull moment.

[ensco]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle27053245/

Very sad to see that Tanenbaum is filling this vacuum so completely.

Shoalts has a key fact wrong. Leiweke wasn't "banned" from the NHL Board of Governors, Tanenbaum had the contractual right to be the MLSE nominee written into the shareholder's agreement. The Ultimate Entertainer should have known that going in, but did he? That is the 64K question.

[MightyDM]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle27053245/

Very sad to see that Tanenbaum is filling this vacuum so completely.

Shoalts has a key fact wrong. Leiweke wasn't "banned" from the NHL Board of Governors, Tanenbaum had the contractual right to be the MLSE nominee written into the shareholder's agreement. The Ultimate Entertainer should have known that going in, but did he? That is the 64K question.

MLSE is Tanenbaum. Rumours I hear are that they had Defoe sold last summer and LT wouldn't let it go to the Board, and that ALL TFC bosses, including TL, actively opposed the Argos until LT weighed in. Selling Defoe then would have been really good for the club and we wouldn't have been shackled to the Jozy deal, or could have got him for less, and the Argos stuff speaks for itself.

[Auzzy]

MLSE is Tanenbaum. Rumours I hear are that they had Defoe sold last summer and LT wouldn't let it go to the Board, and that ALL TFC bosses, including TL, actively opposed the Argos until LT weighed in. Selling Defoe then would have been really good for the club and we wouldn't have been shackled to the Jozy deal, or could have got him for less, and the Argos stuff speaks for itself.

Wow holy shit!

[jazzy]

Wow holy shit!

with sympathy , imagine working under any of these dinosaurs . Maybe we should a bit more gracious to the simple employees who agree with us but are helpless .

[SoccMan2]

And this is why I think that little by little you will see BMO Field becoming more and more accommodating to the Argos, already you are seeing it with the elimination of the north stands and you will see things like Argo stuff plastered all over BMO field, plastic turf eventually come in and football lines. The Argos are Larry Tanebaums baby now and TFC will be second fiddle to them because of Tanebaum.

[Still Kicking]

LT and Bell's Argo love may turn out to be the silver lining in all of this. TL was the TFC string puller and turned TFC from a few million profit per year to the big investment in Gio/Bradley/Jozy, lose money now to invest in a bigger profit later...
LT and Bell don't care about the soccer purists, so I have the same fears that BMO will become more and more a CFL park, Argos will continue to lose money, maybe break even on Grey Cup years. TFC becomes the orphan franchise of MLSE and gets sold.... and future TFC owners have to build a stadium.

[jimiv]

LT and Bell's Argo love may turn out to be the silver lining in all of this. TL was the TFC string puller and turned TFC from a few million profit per year to the big investment in Gio/Bradley/Jozy, lose money now to invest in a bigger profit later...
LT and Bell don't care about the soccer purists, so I have the same fears that BMO will become more and more a CFL park, Argos will continue to lose money, maybe break even on Grey Cup years. TFC becomes the orphan franchise of MLSE and gets sold.... and future TFC owners have to build a stadium.

Before that happens MLSE would sell TFC to a US investor looking to move the team to ensure their strangle hold on the Toronto sports market.

[Fort York Redcoat]

MLSE is Tanenbaum. Rumours I hear are that they had Defoe sold last summer and LT wouldn't let it go to the Board, and that ALL TFC bosses, including TL, actively opposed the Argos until LT weighed in. Selling Defoe then would have been really good for the club and we wouldn't have been shackled to the Jozy deal, or could have got him for less, and the Argos stuff speaks for itself.

Curious. So who were we going to sell an injured Defoe to and get the invest back?

Shackled to a Jozy that scored as many as Defoe when the golden boot winner was on the same team?

That's an interesting view.