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  1. #211
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    Hopefully everyone now stop with "Gilberto is a flop" talk.

    Overall, TFC got the job done for once.

  2. #212
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    I dunno can we fit Gilberto into Reid's Pagoda of the Atiyah Flop? xy = (z+wk)(z−wk) If we can then we can still call him a Flop. It might be a bit of a stretch.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    Missed the game - but wanted to pop in and make my one and only contribution to the thread

    Tik Tak Tabernac...
    Or the opportunistic and catchy.... 'Last place, last place, last place, last place, last place, Montreal, Montreallll, your the worst team in the league'

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    I dunno can we fit Gilberto into Reid's Pagoda of the Atiyah Flop? xy = (z+wk)(z−wk) If we can then we can still call him a Flop. It might be a bit of a stretch.
    You used to get beat up in school a lot?

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    You used to get beat up in school a lot?
    Yes. Though it may have been unrelated but; ya I'm a research Nerd. I looked up a way to make it silly.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    Yes. Though it may have been unrelated but; ya I'm a research Nerd. I looked up a way to make it silly.
    Lmao

  7. #217
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    It was great getting out to Montreal to support our team. Section 112 did us proud! What a trip. We started with Via rail, and went no where due to the derailment. Then, grabbed the car and drove there. Just got in now. Traffic most of the way back home was brutal. 9 hours straight on the way back. No regrets.
    Last edited by Thomas; 08-04-2014 at 10:40 PM.

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    It was Montreal. We're not there yet. When we start dominating teams that aren't complete shit in the same manner, and creating more gilt chances in and around the box, people will start believing we can go deep into the playoffs.

    But we're not there yet. Like you said "we won when we were supposed to." It was still good, and fun to watch, but just as people shouldn't assume every loss means we're shit and Nelsen should be fired or Gilberto traded, every win shouldn't elicit an outpouring of elation. A disproportionate response is a disproportionate response.

    I absolutely agree, it's just anecdotally it seems that the disproportionate responses favour the negative over the positive.

    I suppose in the first few years it was the reverse, so maybe its balancing out over time.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonso View Post
    I absolutely agree, it's just anecdotally it seems that the disproportionate responses favour the negative over the positive.

    I suppose in the first few years it was the reverse, so maybe its balancing out over time.
    Whilst I tend too agree, I have to take the positives when they come. TFC have played some very exciting games in the past, and have come up short or drawing.

    I do recall a few years ago TFC having a match, the words being spoken were, 'It's only New York Red Bulls, they are in last place, we can clinch the playoffs' and what happened in that one, was it a 5-nil loss.
    Onward TFC Onward

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    It was Montreal. We're not there yet. When we start dominating teams that aren't complete shit in the same manner, and creating more gilt chances in and around the box, people will start believing we can go deep into the playoffs.

    But we're not there yet. Like you said "we won when we were supposed to." It was still good, and fun to watch, but just as people shouldn't assume every loss means we're shit and Nelsen should be fired or Gilberto traded, every win shouldn't elicit an outpouring of elation. A disproportionate response is a disproportionate response.
    It's not like Montreal have no points this season. They've taken points from the Whitecaps, Philly, DC, New England, Fire and NYRB. The point is that this is not the Premiere league where teams are easy and a wins are expected. You still have perform well and finish your chances to get a win.

  11. #221
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    SJ beat Seattle.
    Houston beat DC.
    Philly tied KC.
    ...and that's just the last week.

    If TFC lose, it's because they're no good.
    If TFC wins, it's because the other team is disinterested.

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    If TFC lose, it's because they're no good.
    If TFC wins, it's because the other team is disinterested.
    You're simplifying what people say when they "hate" on TFC. It's great the we beat Montreal, we thoroughly outplayed them and took care of business. But they're a team that were 3-12-5. Beating them doesn't make up for losing 3-0 at DC and 2-1 to SKC at home up a man.

    Let's not forget that before Montreal we had one win in eight games. That's a terrible run by any measure, and people are right to voice their "negative" opinions. That stretch displayed a troubling lack of finishing and creating chances. One win later and those are still real concerns that could affect the rest of the season.

    Until TFC puts together an extended period of getting results (and now would be a good time to go on that run), people are going to be wary. The East isn't as tough as the West but it's still a dogfight to make the playoffs. We're only 3 points safe of the red line. Each game we drop points, especially to Eastern teams, could be crucial.

  13. #223
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    Like I said - your first place Seattle is on a 2 game losing streak; one of which is to SJ. I don't know what people are expecting from this team... They're not gonna take home the shield, so if that's what you're waiting for, it's not happening.

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    Consistency will come with a consistent lineup of quality players.

    We are getting there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    It was Montreal. We're not there yet. When we start dominating teams that aren't complete shit in the same manner, and creating more gilt chances in and around the box, people will start believing we can go deep into the playoffs.

    But we're not there yet. Like you said "we won when we were supposed to." It was still good, and fun to watch, but just as people shouldn't assume every loss means we're shit and Nelsen should be fired or Gilberto traded, every win shouldn't elicit an outpouring of elation. A disproportionate response is a disproportionate response.
    Yep. It's good that we are a solid enough team that we can typically beat up on the teams we are "supposed to" be better than. That was never a given in previous years, at all.

    What I'm looking for, is for us to more consistently outplay teams on the same level as us, or higher. Doesn't diminish three points that we both needed, and got - just means we aren't nearly out of the woods yet.
    “Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens

  16. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopePouri View Post
    It's not like Montreal have no points this season. They've taken points from the Whitecaps, Philly, DC, New England, Fire and NYRB. The point is that this is not the Premiere league where teams are easy and a wins are expected. You still have perform well and finish your chances to get a win.
    It's the worst team in the league, by a fair margin. If they won three games straight while all the other bottom dwellers also lost they'd still be in last place. Per game they are averaging less points than the last place EPL team in the 13-14 season. This is just a game you'd expect to win, regardless of what league it is.

    Credit to the team for not slipping up on this one, but I think it's fair to say it's not the same measuring stick as the other opponents we faced previously.

  17. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    It's the worst team in the league, by a fair margin. If they won three games straight while all the other bottom dwellers also lost they'd still be in last place. Per game they are averaging less points than the last place EPL team in the 13-14 season. This is just a game you'd expect to win, regardless of what league it is.

    Credit to the team for not slipping up on this one, but I think it's fair to say it's not the same measuring stick as the other opponents we faced previously.
    It really needs to be stressed though, that this win would by no means be automatic for pretty much every previous incarnation of Toronto FC. Every weekend was a roll of the dice.

    Aside from that, I agree completely. Three points is never a bad thing, and it's good that we took care of business, but we need to look higher.

    But hey, if you can't enjoy wins as a fan, then what is left?
    “Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens

  18. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakes McQueen View Post
    It really needs to be stressed though, that this win would by no means be automatic for pretty much every previous incarnation of Toronto FC. Every weekend was a roll of the dice.

    Aside from that, I agree completely. Three points is never a bad thing, and it's good that we took care of business, but we need to look higher.

    But hey, if you can't enjoy wins as a fan, then what is left?
    No argument there. What can I say? Looking at it just as a TFC fan I want us to win every game but at the same time I get disappointed by aspects of how we play and get the sneaking suspicion it will catch up to us.

  19. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    No argument there. What can I say? Looking at it just as a TFC fan I want us to win every game but at the same time I get disappointed by aspects of how we play and get the sneaking suspicion it will catch up to us.
    It has already, hasn't it.

    in the 9 games since we came back from the break we picked up 10 points. That is a full 3 points dropped from the pre-world cup break, and we should be in better form. What that says is teams in the MLS have figured us out, there isn't enough tactical variance.

    I said early on that most of our goals were coming in the first 25 minutes or so and then we couldn't score, as teams basically figured us out and shut us down and we did nothing to change the play to fix it. Now we are playing some of those teams again, and other smart teams and we can't win. The two wins we picked up were wins that we should have picked up. (Houston who has imploded (and we only picked up 4 of 6) and Montreal who are worse. Against any sort of decent side we either tie or loose, because this team is easy to shut down. In fact if you look at the game stats, every time we play a team a second time the results get worse.

    So... it has already caught up to us. It is possible we could not win another game all month.. and it isn't unreasonable to say if indeed Nelsen's lack of ability to adapt is the issue, then we may start September with fewer than 33 points, and drop below a playoff spot.
    Last edited by Kaz; 08-06-2014 at 07:35 AM.

  20. #230
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    TFC's drop in points is more down to an ever changing roster more than a drop in form, or other teams "working us out". Players like Warner and Oduro are going to take time to adapt into the starting 11. Bradley coming back to the team is like a new signing and he didn't play many with the team before the world cup really. We also now have Creaville to adapt to the team. These are all upgrades on other players though, so I can see when these have all played together a while, TFC are going to be a completely different outfit. We need a little patience while we build with these new players.

  21. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Consistency will come with a consistent lineup of quality players.

    We are getting there.
    Maybe true, but Nelsen tactics (or lack of) isn't working. We're winning game simply because of talent not tactics.

    Nelsen playing Bradley-Warner middle isn't helping a lot to create and provide service for strikers. Our wingers (Jackson and Oduro) are great athletes and workhorse, but their soccer skills and IQ is mediocre which is obviously frustrating our strikers (especially Defoe) who have to rely on the wing to provide service since CM's aren't doing the job on consistent basis.

  22. #232
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    I thought the tactical change of having Ossorio play out wide, but basically drift in and have 3 CM giving Odurro total freedom out wide worked excellently. We basically moved into a 4-3-3 on attack quite a bit, and were really strong centrally. This sure beats several games playing with Jackson and Odurro wide and having our central midfielders outnumbered and possession being given away cheaply from the wings constantly.

    Also, I really hope we see this for our depth up front at some time this season, it would be frightening:

    1. Defoe
    2. Gilberto
    3. Dike
    4. Moore

    And Henry has really quieted his game down. His decision making is much better, and he's playing a much more controlled and calm game, and it's paying off. Hagglund is way more comfortable at CB than FB and it shows. He has been very effective in every game he's played as a CB and looked a little lost as a FB.

    When Odurro is on, he looks like an all-star. If he can find consistency before his speed dries up, watch out.

  23. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-boy View Post
    TFC's drop in points is more down to an ever changing roster more than a drop in form, or other teams "working us out". Players like Warner and Oduro are going to take time to adapt into the starting 11. Bradley coming back to the team is like a new signing and he didn't play many with the team before the world cup really. We also now have Creaville to adapt to the team. These are all upgrades on other players though, so I can see when these have all played together a while, TFC are going to be a completely different outfit. We need a little patience while we build with these new players.
    And that is another legitimate option, all the players say there is a system they have to learn. If we come out of August with just 1-3 points more then that is management and coaching.. we can all say the players right now aren't the issue.

  24. #234
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    Am I the only one that thinks you guys are crazy? We're not 3 games into the season.. It's more than half way done. We're third in the east with a brand new team, what else do you want??

  25. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Am I the only one that thinks you guys are crazy? We're not 3 games into the season.. It's more than half way done. We're third in the east with a brand new team, what else do you want??
    Completely happy right now on where the Reds are, compared to where they have been. Onward, forward, ready for the ride.

    Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!

  26. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-boy View Post
    TFC's drop in points is more down to an ever changing roster more than a drop in form, or other teams "working us out".
    I think a case can easily be made to the contrary.

    Bradley's form, for example, is nowhere near what it was at the start of the season. Tactically as well, very little variance whatsoever. We got stuffed in the channels by DCU yet we continued to try and push play in the same area until it got to the point when we were out of it completely, after which we made meaningless adjustments. The game before we were prolific against SKC getting up the flank. Coincidence?
    Last edited by ag futbol; 08-06-2014 at 07:59 PM.

 

 

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