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  1. #1
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    Default We're in a good place

    I don't know how else to describe it, but despite the nitpicking over the play of Hall/Osorio/Bekker/Henry, etc etc...

    After the win against SJ, and even considering the "Amway", I think that right now as of this moment TFC is in possibly it's best form as it's ever been.

    All the little little cogs that make up the team are slowly but surely progressing, even with Bradley out of the lineup.

    It's much more fun looking at the glass half full. Some of you guys should try it some time

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    we're toronto sports fan, we'll always find a reason to complain.

    aside from that, we're off to an awesome start. as much as we play scrappy, crappy, football.. we're getting the results we need. i'll disagree with the amyway though. i would've loved to have been VC champions again, let alone beat montreal.

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    I wasn't able to catch the entire game on TV today (parents kept flipping over to the Belmont Stakes), but from what I did see, TFC had pretty good control of the game. Our possession was up. Our passing looked better than in a few previous games I can think of. Hagglund and Caldwell looked pretty good from what I saw. I noticed Oduro came on in the 2nd half, but didn't see much of it. Was it a good first outing for him?

    I think you're right. Pieces are starting to come together for this club. I'm sorta getting a vibe that Nelsen is playing the team more to Tim B's vision. Compare the defence from today to what we saw earlier on in the season and I think the change is noticeable. All we're waiting on is Gilberto, frankly.

    Though I agree with Wowza on losing the V-Cup. It's a loss that I don't take particularly lightly.
    Last edited by Cashcleaner; 06-08-2014 at 01:29 AM.
    Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.

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    We are in a good place.. you can easily say this is our best start...

    one thing I'm concerned about..

    Last season the difference between 5th place in the league and 13th place was 5 points. (5th and 10th was a 2 point seperation)

    The Difference between a 3rd place finish and a 7th place finish in either conference was 5 points.

    Both conference had two teams tied on points where the Playoff spot is decided by Goals.

    This means that every point counts. The only people that are comfortably in a play off spot are usually the teams that finish in the top 2 places... and even then it's only a point or two.

    In most cases that extra goal to get a tie can make all the difference... so when we are upset about ties that should be wins or wins that should be ties, due to a under performing offence (yet again) people have a point. Gilberto needs to get some time.. I really feel bad about him not playing today. He needs to take the break, get excited and go out there and score.

    I don't want to have a bad stretch and end up eliminated by a point.. or worse a goal.
    Last edited by Kaz; 06-08-2014 at 01:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    This means that every point counts. The only people that are comfortably in a play off spot are usually the teams that finish in the top 2 places... and even then it's only a point or two.

    In most cases that extra goal to get a tie can make all the difference... so when we are upset about ties that should be wins or wins that should be ties, due to a under performing offence (yet again) people have a point. Gilberto needs to get some time.. I really feel bad about him not playing today. He needs to take the break, get excited and go out there and score.

    I don't want to have a bad stretch and end up eliminated by a point.. or worse a goal.
    And that was one of the bigger problems we had to deal with last year. Games they we should have tied but ended up losing, and a few games we were winning but ended up getting the draw.
    Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.

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    Here's an interesting philosophical question.

    If there were no playoffs in MLS, just a table Champion and the V Cup, how would you feel about the team?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Here's an interesting philosophical question.

    If there were no playoffs in MLS, just a table Champion and the V Cup, how would you feel about the team?
    That there was hope for the league but realistically, mid table is better then bottom feeder. Good to get into the cup final but should have progressed.


    However, if there were no playoffs, all MLS teams would be set up very differently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    That there was hope for the league but realistically, mid table is better then bottom feeder. Good to get into the cup final but should have progressed.


    However, if there were no playoffs, all MLS teams would be set up very differently.
    How so? Assume we still had player quotas, centralized contracts and the DP rules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Here's an interesting philosophical question.

    If there were no playoffs in MLS, just a table Champion and the V Cup, how would you feel about the team?
    I would still feel somewhat optimistic considering our current place in the standings, the number of games we have in hand, and the fact that we're not even close to firing on all cylinders yet.
    Last edited by ManUtd4ever; 06-08-2014 at 08:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Here's an interesting philosophical question.

    If there were no playoffs in MLS, just a table Champion and the V Cup, how would you feel about the team?
    I would still feel pretty good. We have games in hand and the team is progressing. Not there yet but if we continue to get better and have our full squad it will be very interesting where we end up in October.

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    It's also worth noting that if TFC was subject to domestic MLS parameters regarding CCL qualification, we would have a realistic shot at finishing in the top four this season.

    Furthermore, a berth in next year's CCL is already at stake based on this year's standings, and we are in a solid position with respect to our prospects of finishing the season as the highest ranked Canadian MLS club.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Here's an interesting philosophical question.

    If there were no playoffs in MLS, just a table Champion and the V Cup, how would you feel about the team?
    Making the playoffs was the clear goal this year.

    Your question to me is like setting a goal to finish a marathon and having someone say 'what if there are no marathons, just 100k ultras?'

    Well i would have a different goal then.

    What's interesting about that question?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    We are in a good place.. you can easily say this is our best start...

    one thing I'm concerned about..

    Last season the difference between 5th place in the league and 13th place was 5 points. (5th and 10th was a 2 point seperation)

    The Difference between a 3rd place finish and a 7th place finish in either conference was 5 points.

    Both conference had two teams tied on points where the Playoff spot is decided by Goals.

    This means that every point counts. The only people that are comfortably in a play off spot are usually the teams that finish in the top 2 places... and even then it's only a point or two.

    In most cases that extra goal to get a tie can make all the difference... so when we are upset about ties that should be wins or wins that should be ties, due to a under performing offence (yet again) people have a point. Gilberto needs to get some time.. I really feel bad about him not playing today. He needs to take the break, get excited and go out there and score.

    I don't want to have a bad stretch and end up eliminated by a point.. or worse a goal.
    Is goals scored or goal differential the tiebreak. On goal differential we would be in a pretty decent place by virtue of not conceding very much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CBTFC View Post
    I don't know how else to describe it, but despite the nitpicking over the play of Hall/Osorio/Bekker/Henry, etc etc...

    After the win against SJ, and even considering the "Amway", I think that right now as of this moment TFC is in possibly it's best form as it's ever been.

    All the little little cogs that make up the team are slowly but surely progressing, even with Bradley out of the lineup.

    It's much more fun looking at the glass half full. Some of you guys should try it some time
    Great post! We are certainly in a better place!
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBTFC View Post
    I don't know how else to describe it, but despite the nitpicking over the play of Hall/Osorio/Bekker/Henry, etc etc...

    After the win against SJ, and even considering the "Amway", I think that right now as of this moment TFC is in possibly it's best form as it's ever been.

    All the little little cogs that make up the team are slowly but surely progressing, even with Bradley out of the lineup.

    It's much more fun looking at the glass half full. Some of you guys should try it some time
    Great post! Positive thoughts people, we're looking like a pretty solid team at the moment

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    It's only going to get better when Bradley returns and we sign couple of players in summer window.

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    I had and still have no doubt we will make the playoffs easily. We made it through the hardest part. We've played 11 games and Bradley's missed 5 of them, Defoe's missed 3 and Gilberto hasn't scored a goal yet. If you told me that before the start of the season, i definitely wouldn't have us 4th in ppg. I also think Bendik is a huge improvement from last year so the loss of Cesar doesn't really bother me anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Here's an interesting philosophical question.

    If there were no playoffs in MLS, just a table Champion and the V Cup, how would you feel about the team?
    I'd still feel the same - very positive and upbeat about the team...

    You need to crawl before you walk, and we're on our way to walking tall...

    Carts...
    "...Money wasn't tight, but it like, it wasn't right..."


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    Quote Originally Posted by LFC8 View Post
    I had and still have no doubt we will make the playoffs easily. We made it through the hardest part. We've played 11 games and Bradley's missed 5 of them, Defoe's missed 3 and Gilberto hasn't scored a goal yet. If you told me that before the start of the season, i definitely wouldn't have us 4th in ppg. I also think Bendik is a huge improvement from last year so the loss of Cesar doesn't really bother me anymore.
    Minor correction but we are now 3rd in ppg. If New England loses or ties New York today we will be in 2nd in ppg. I can't see anything negatives about that except maybe we should be first in ppg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Here's an interesting philosophical question.

    If there were no playoffs in MLS, just a table Champion and the V Cup, how would you feel about the team?
    Well assuming the fixtures stay the same.

    There is a lot into that question.
    First the team is expected to make the Play-offs.. that is the top of the priority list for MLSE. They made a proclamation nothing else matters. July is insane for us with a game on average ever 4 days between June 27th and August 3rd. We will be luck to start August with 33 points. (but 40 isn't out of the realm) adding 4 games and 8,000km of travel wasn't going to do us any favours.

    If there were no Playoff in MLS then there are a few things to look at.

    The top three US teams would get the Champions League Berth.
    Canadian Teams would still play the V-Cup
    the V-Cup would still be changing it's fixture dates and placing this year.
    The Winner of the 2014 V-Cup would still decide the 2014-2015 Champions League Rep.
    The Top Canadian Team in MLS would still decide the 2015-2016 Champions League Rep.
    And the question is would have Toronto have asked for the fixture dates they did? 9 Games in July heat?

    The Top 3 US teams

    Over 11 games: RSL(23), Seattle(22), New England(20)

    Currently [games played]
    Seattle(32)[15] , RSL(25)[15], New England(23)[13]

    The Canadian Teams

    Over 11 games: Toronto FC (19), Vancouver(17), Montreal(7)

    Currently [games played]
    Vancouver(21)[13], Toronto(19)[11], Montreal(10)[12]

    Vancouver and Toronto are very close on points. 4 Extra games could actually cost us next years Champions League and a play-off berth.

    So here is a Question back t you Pookie.

    The Play-offs exist. If winning the V-cup means we lose out on the Play-offs, are further down the table and lose out on CONCACAF Champions League next year, would it still be worth it?

    If Losing out on it this year means, we get to the Play-offs, are high in the table (maybe even in the supporters shield race), play Champions League Football next year.. and have the chemistry to really give a go at the V-cup next year with a better fixture set up. was it worth it to put out the weak showing we did?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Here's an interesting philosophical question.

    If there were no playoffs in MLS, just a table Champion and the V Cup, how would you feel about the team?
    If the season ended today I would be happy with the progress. Perennial last place team up to 9th is solid progress.

    An we currently have between 2 & 5 games in hand on the teams above us. Even if we pick up half the points from 4 or 5 of those games in hand we are sitting pretty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpy View Post
    Minor correction but we are now 3rd in ppg. If New England loses or ties New York today we will be in 2nd in ppg. I can't see anything negatives about that except maybe we should be first in ppg.
    Well then, i stand corrected

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    Quote Originally Posted by McCartney View Post
    I'd still feel the same - very positive and upbeat about the team...

    You need to crawl before you walk, and we're on our way to walking tall...

    Carts...
    I agree, last three seasons TFC were dwelling around the foot of the table. Mid table is significant progress especially grinding out wins without the DP midfielder. There is hope of further upside given the early strength of schedule, games in hand and return of Bradley (hopefully healthy!)

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    Still have problems, but if someone had said this would be our record at the WC break in pre-season, I'd have taken it. We've especially hung in decently since Bradley and Cesar left.
    “Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Making the playoffs was the clear goal this year.

    Your question to me is like setting a goal to finish a marathon and having someone say 'what if there are no marathons, just 100k ultras?'

    Well i would have a different goal then.

    What's interesting about that question?
    The question is whether you as a professional athlete set the goal to finish the marathon or win it. For most of us, finishing a marathon is an accomplishment. For those who do it for a living, winning is the goal.

    Shooting a round of golf in 80's is an accomplishment. Most professional golfers, like those who will tee it up in the US Open next week don't dream of making the cut, they dream of winning it.

    What's interesting is that we are rating our team as being in a good place based on "playoffs" (or making the Cut). If there was a table champion, the bar would be set much higher so the question is would the team still rate as high.

    If they don't fall off the map like every other TFC team in the 2nd half, it should be a positive step forward regardless of how it ends.

    Practically speaking, today, is this a team that can pick apart SKC or RSL at the top of their games?

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    can I ask you pookie...when you drink a glass of milk,beer,water,is the glass always half empty

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    The question is whether you as a professional athlete set the goal to finish the marathon or win it. For most of us, finishing a marathon is an accomplishment. For those who do it for a living, winning is the goal.

    Shooting a round of golf in 80's is an accomplishment. Most professional golfers, like those who will tee it up in the US Open next week don't dream of making the cut, they dream of winning it.

    What's interesting is that we are rating our team as being in a good place based on "playoffs" (or making the Cut). If there was a table champion, the bar would be set much higher so the question is would the team still rate as high.

    If they don't fall off the map like every other TFC team in the 2nd half, it should be a positive step forward regardless of how it ends.

    Practically speaking, today, is this a team that can pick apart SKC or RSL at the top of their games?
    It's an interesting theoretical question, but I think it's ok to be pleased with our current situation, since it shows we are making progress toward the ultimate goal of being in the top few teams in the league.
    Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    The question is whether you as a professional athlete set the goal to finish the marathon or win it. For most of us, finishing a marathon is an accomplishment. For those who do it for a living, winning is the goal.

    Shooting a round of golf in 80's is an accomplishment. Most professional golfers, like those who will tee it up in the US Open next week don't dream of making the cut, they dream of winning it.

    What's interesting is that we are rating our team as being in a good place based on "playoffs" (or making the Cut). If there was a table champion, the bar would be set much higher so the question is would the team still rate as high.

    If they don't fall off the map like every other TFC team in the 2nd half, it should be a positive step forward regardless of how it ends.

    Practically speaking, today, is this a team that can pick apart SKC or RSL at the top of their games?
    I don't think our "dream" should be just making the post-season, but that should be our goal this season, based on assessing where we are as a team. Just like most golfers in the US Open might "dream" of winning it all, but a ton of them are, on a practical level, just hoping to make the weekend cut.

    Of course winning the cup is the ultimate goal.
    “Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    It's an interesting theoretical question, but I think it's ok to be pleased with our current situation, since it shows we are making progress toward the ultimate goal of being in the top few teams in the league.
    Bingo.
    “Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens

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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    can I ask you pookie...when you drink a glass of milk,beer,water,is the glass always half empty
    If you have a half empty beer you are more likely to get another one

    Actually, this Rey for Oduro trade was a bit of a lights go on moment for me.

    I really hate the way that MLSE runs its teams. Historically, mortgaging for the future for a short term fix and always setting their teams up to be mediocre. Usually that's because veterans tail off/get injured and there are no draft picks to fall back on.

    Over the short term for TFC though, the window is clearly now and the Oduro trade made me see that. Defoe has 3 years left in his contract and maybe less on his hamstrings. Bradley is younger but American and who knows where he will want his retirement contract… the multiyear deal at 30… to be. Tim L is also publicly rumoured to be of short stay and this investment isn't generating the kind of hype that the Board expected so who knows how big the payroll will be in 3-4 years.

    So why not go for it now… if you can do it in a way that preserves the draft picks? Oduro makes the team better now. In 3-4 years, he likely won't be in the mix but neither will Defoe and questionably Bradley. I would hope Gilberto can stick but who knows. Caldwell will be out. Same with Orr, DeRosario and possibly Moore.

    In that time, 3-4 years from now the draft picks will be in their mid-20s. Whomever is Tim L's replacement can look for DPs that he can put in and go for it again.

    Of course, MLSE could screw it up by trading those picks now and having nothing for the future but as much as I don't agree with Tim L very often, his stance on drafting is pretty positive. The only catch 22 is that the higher the team finishes the lower those picks will be but at least they will have picks.

    So, let's get a little older provided you can do it without giving up draft picks. DC is having an even better turnaround to their 2013 season and they did it on the backs of players in their 30s.

    Just hold MLSE accountable to championships, the kind they want to win, and not this competing for the playoffs stuff we hear from all their teams. It's a 3-4 year window to win it all and it may not open again the way it is now.

 

 

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