2014 Voyageurs Cup final 2nd leg: Toronto at Montreal, Wed 4 June 730pm

[OgtheDim]

If Nelsen was truly serious about winning this, he wouldn't have played a B squad in the first leg. He knows making the playoffs is what he's going to be judged by this season, so of course, that's what he's focusing on.

I get that idea.

I just find it baffling that a team that has so much success for so many years playing in the CCL would lose all sense of the fun and buzz such a run can create.

AFAIK, the only people involved in the team now who have a sense of the CCL as an event are Henry, Morgan, Bitchy, Brennan and DeRo.

None of management was around for our last foray. Bez & RN don't have any history about TFC and that stuff. TL seems to think CCL comes with winning championships, not through cup success.

Very few players are left from then (which is good because we were crap).

There is no keeper of history with this team. (except the supporters, and we are in deep PTSD)

Our one bit of successful history we have built up is a couple of CCL runs. And we are throwing any drive to succeed in that way out the window, as if that history doesn't matter, and that approach to success is not important.

I get there is a master plan, and I'm pretty darn sure it includes CCL matches in 2015 and 2016. But for our team to not have a sense of urgency and the ability to adjust away from our obvious weaknesses in this match was like watching 2010-2013 all over again.

[gate7]

so now that we lost, we had better be putting out our best squad for each match; no saying "the next game influenced who i played today", it would of been better if RN said he didnt care at all if we won the CCL, it would of been easier on all of us, and we could of even forfeited the games or even allowed our academy to play instead of getting chances of injuries to our current squad.

Sure, maybe now TFC can make the playoffs......but we are an embarrassment of a team and that holds equal value to some...myself included

[InDa_110]

You can put me down as someone who is glad we are out of this "competition". Playoffs and MLS is much more important to almost everyone I speak with and i've been around since opening day.

I don't want tfc flying to a tropic island or Mexico mid week when we are in the stretch drive of our first legit drive for the playoffs in years if ever.

Never nice to lose, but i'm not bothered by this at all. I'm actually relived.

[flamehawk]

You can put me down as someone who is glad we are out of this "competition". Playoffs and MLS is much more important to almost everyone I speak with and i've been around since opening day.

I don't want tfc flying to a tropic island or Mexico mid week when we are in the stretch drive of our first legit drive for the playoffs in years if ever.

Never nice to lose, but i'm not bothered by this at all. I'm actually relived.

I could understand this view, but I am the complete opposite, as are friends of mine. This is really getting close to the final nail for me in terms of keeping Nelsen. This might seem hyperbolic, but I rather win the Voyageurs and do well in CCL than the playoffs (not that it should be either/or). The champions league is much more prestigious and my best memories are of TFC playing in the champions league. Fuck Nelsen.

[gracos]

Sure, maybe now TFC can make the playoffs......but we are an embarrassment of a team and that holds equal value to some...myself included

I coached a little bit of soccer at my college specifically collegian and if we didnt take every game the most serious we could, we all felt like we lost as a team; i wish it was the same for our club however it also seems like only some games are important and some have no importance, especially if RN said well we are resting up for the next game, in college there were some pretty tough teams and some easier but we treated every game equally.. win and if that wasnt possible at the very least make sure you put your heart out on the field.

[ManUtd4ever]

It would have been nice if Osorio's shot had banked in off the post, but as mentioned, the silver lining is that our squad can now focus entirely on the balance of the MLS schedule and making the playoffs, which is definitely the priority this season. Because TFC has played the fewest matches in the league thus far by a notable margin, our fixture congestion is already considerable in the second half of the season. I don't think our depth is adequate enough to have managed the additional CCL schedule and succeed in the league.

As for Montreal, the CCL is all they have to play for this season barring a miraculous turnaround in their league fortunes. We've been in that position far too often in the past, and I for one am looking forward to a rejuvenated healthy squad surging forward after the World Cup break. I just hope that Nelsen is up to the job.

[PAOK17]

I don't get how making the playoffs is the measure of success. In what soccer league is finishing in the top 10 of 19 teams after breaking the bank on transfers considered a success. Did Manchester City say "we want to finish in the top 10 now that we have a huge player budget?" Their goal is to win it all!

If you're going to pass on winning your domestic cup, it better be for a better reason than saving your players so that they can strive for a top 10 finish. Let's set the bar a bit higher, please! At least say the goal is to make it to the conference final!

[Pookie]

- TFC aren't playing like a playoff bound team...in virtually all games in any competition.

- Stop lumping defeats on guys that make less than Defoe does in a week. They need time to develop.

- Agreed. Midfield isn't providing service. The team is not good enough to cash the cheques MLSE is writing... yet. They aren't going to get better by trading for more reclamation projects or calling them shit.

- Hard time believing that MLSE is happy with missing a minimum of 3 additional ticket selling dates (CCL) and will instead be happy with playoffs and its maximum potential of 4 home games. Especially when they just needed one of their combined $7.7m investments to score.

- as for this BS about not wanting to win, if that is the case who the f@ck is TFC to say it doesn't want to win something? Was Tim L for a culture change... to one of winning... Or not?

[InDa_110]

Everyone has the right to their own opinion. But let me assure you that if we make the playoffs and win our first playoff home game i'm sure it will give your existing best memory a run for its money. Especially if that game is anything like last Sat at BMO.

I could understand this view, but I am the complete opposite, as are friends of mine. This is really getting close to the final nail for me in terms of keeping Nelsen. This might seem hyperbolic, but I rather win the Voyageurs and do well in CCL than the playoffs (not that it should be either/or). The champions league is much more prestigious and my best memories are of TFC playing in the champions league. Fuck Nelsen.

[ensco]

Bugger. I wish Osorio had scored. Oh well.

This tournament is a crapshoot. Same as the MLS playoffs, many better teams get smoked in the postseason.

[ag futbol]

I don't get how making the playoffs is the measure of success. In what soccer league is finishing in the top 10 of 19 teams after breaking the bank on transfers considered a success. Did Manchester City say "we want to finish in the top 10 now that we have a huge player budget?" Their goal is to win it all!

If you're going to pass on winning your domestic cup, it better be for a better reason than saving your players so that they can strive for a top 10 finish. Let's set the bar a bit higher, please!

And yet... we've never done it.

I know I'm certainly coming from the opposite camp. But color me underwhelmed at the overall level of the play in the CCL and the effort most teams are putting towards it. I'll give a shit when they tighten it up, force more of the awful teams into play-ins, and when the Mexican teams start to take it more seriously.

But right now? It's every bit as laughable as what we saw on the field today for the V's cup.

[InDa_110]

MLSE will be thrilled! Wait until you see ticket prices

- TFC aren't playing like a playoff bound team...in virtually all games in any competition.

- Stop lumping defeats on guys that make less than Defoe does in a week. They need time to develop.

- Agreed. Midfield isn't providing service. The team is not good enough to cash the cheques MLSE is writing... yet. They aren't going to get better by trading for more reclamation projects or calling them shit.

- Hard time believing that MLSE is happy with missing a minimum of 3 additional ticket selling dates (CCL) and will instead be happy with playoffs and its maximum potential of 4 home games. Especially when they just needed one of their combined $7.7m investments to score.

- as for this BS about not wanting to win, if that is the case who the f@ck is TFC to say it doesn't want to win something? Was Tim L for a culture change... to one of winning... Or not?

[Marc"2L"]

I could understand this view, but I am the complete opposite, as are friends of mine. This is really getting close to the final nail for me in terms of keeping Nelsen. This might seem hyperbolic, but I rather win the Voyageurs and do well in CCL than the playoffs (not that it should be either/or). The champions league is much more prestigious and my best memories are of TFC playing in the champions league. Fuck Nelsen.

It could of been for a box of animal crackers, I don't care. Losing to Montreal should never be ok.

[boozilla]

Good for Montreal.The sport needs competition.
Maybe they can turn their shitty season around, but Honduras / Juarez
CCL games, I can do without.

[mowe]

God I hate losing the Voyageurs' Cup. And the group draw would've given us a great chance to get a high seed in the quarterfinals.

Without Bradley we have no real chance. We might grind out a few results here or there but we will never outplay the other team for 90 minutes. Nelson's tactics are more frustrating than anything.

This summer window is crucial. We need to reinforce the squad. Looking forward to see what Bezbatchenko will do.

[ManUtd4ever]

Gosh I hope not, as he might be starting on Saturday. Our fit CM's right now consist of Osorio, Bekker and Hall.

...and Warner. I think a CM pairing of Osorio and Warner will actually be decent until Bradley returns from Brazil.

[flamehawk]

It could of been for a box of animal crackers, I don't care. Losing to Montreal should never be ok.

Absolutely. I am really scratching my head at someone posting on reddit claiming that no TFC supporter cares about Montreal, and that the trillium cup was more important... must be Nelsen in disguise.

[PAOK17]

And yet... we've never done it.

I know I'm certainly coming from the opposite camp. But color me underwhelmed at the overall level of the play in the CCL and the effort most teams are putting towards it. I'll give a shit when they tighten it up, force more of the awful teams into play-ins, and when the Mexican teams start to take it more seriously.

But right now? It's every bit as laughable as what we saw on the field today for the V's cup.

I agree with you about CCL not being a good competition yet. I honestly think the CCL is Mikey Mouse. Until they start ranking countries by success of the clubs coming from those countries (like UEFA does) to determine the number of representatives from each country, and then using individual club coefficients (oh wait UEFA does that too) to determine which teams get seeded when they make the cup, then I'll take it seriously. This whole US = 4 teams, Mexico = 4 teams and they can't' be drawn together is as stupid as having the Gold Cup played in the same country every two years. But that's for another debate.

What I mean to say is, if you're going to spend millions on DP's, don't tell me that your goal is to just make the playoffs. Your goal should be to win it all. If you don't want to play in the CCL, win the Voyageurs Cup, and use the CCL to develop your younger players.

[jazzy]

That was an Effin awful display.

Not just shades of every season before this one - a full on reproduction.

No heart in that midfield.

None.

No tactical sense.

No urgency.


If ANY of our midfield that we started with could pass the ball, we would have won that.


I know Bekker is going to play until Bradley comes back but he is not MLS class. Gives up all the time.

Rey is useless in the final third.

Lovitz can't use his right and is having issues with the speed of the game.

And Hall is a sub DM, at best.


***************

That cup was for the taking.


And a spot in the quarters was for the taking.



This effin hurts.

nothing left to say ....at least Issey would have given a damn. .....I think I would have liked the enthusiasm of Hagglund also .

[OgtheDim]

....
- as for this BS about not wanting to win, if that is the case who the f@ck is TFC to say it doesn't want to win something? Was Tim L for a culture change... to one of winning... Or not?

Agreed. No professional likes to lose.

On the other hand, TL and RN and Bez set this team up for league success with an expected push after the World Cup. They wanted to compete and not be out of the playoff picture after this Saturday, with little expectation beyond not looking completely crappy. There was always the expectation that the push would happen come July.

In that regard, man management was always going to put less emphasis on this competition.

[ManUtd4ever]

And yet... we've never done it.

I know I'm certainly coming from the opposite camp. But color me underwhelmed at the overall level of the play in the CCL and the effort most teams are putting towards it. I'll give a shit when they tighten it up, force more of the awful teams into play-ins, and when the Mexican teams start to take it more seriously.

But right now? It's every bit as laughable as what we saw on the field today for the V's cup.

My greatest memories as a TFC supporter are of our CCL run under Aaron Winter, but I have to agree with you. Look no further than Vancouver and Carl Robinson's decision to play his Academy team in the opening series to further illustrate that reality.

Despite how many of us feel about the competition, the truth is that the Champions League is far less prestigious in North America than it is in Europe. In North America, the league results are absolutely the priority for all domestic clubs.

[OgtheDim]

I hate games like this being on a midweek when I'm working.

My mind has to go through the whole Kubler Ross cycle before I can sleep and I can't recover with a beer or a sleep in or chowing down on some food.

[jazzy]

The depth on this team is like having canned beans as a backup for Friday nights dinner

and smells the same

[ensco]

I hate games like this being on a midweek when I'm working.

My mind has to go through the whole Kubler Ross cycle before I can sleep and I can't recover with a beer or a sleep in or chowing down on some food.

Donuts will set you free.

[spe18]

I am still shocked we havent been able to build a club to win, I am hoping for the Summer Window as we can get rid of some of our players to build up our squad, cause of right now even if we get in we will not be able to perform and be knocked out in the first round. Personally I feel that the Concacaf Champions League is more important than the league as it means you are the very best that our continent has to offer, not country, if we could make the FIFA Champions League could you only imagine being able to play Real Madrid, during the tournament. I never understood why we bench Defoe in the first leg at home, i feel RN is on a very short leash; if we dont make the playoffs he can be simply released from our club, cause he just isnt cut up to be a coach of our team.

So if this is the case, then can you explain what is the point of getting season tickets if all that matters are 8 games that aren't even in MLS league play?

[gracos]

So if this is the case, then can you explain what is the point of getting season tickets if all that matters are 8 games that aren't even in MLS league play?

Its a combination of both CCL and league, dont get me wrong i understand the leagues importance but also feel that the CCL has its benefits to solidify as a dominant team as well.

[reggie]

- TFC aren't playing like a playoff bound team...in virtually all games in any competition.

- Stop lumping defeats on guys that make less than Defoe does in a week. They need time to develop.

- Agreed. Midfield isn't providing service. The team is not good enough to cash the cheques MLSE is writing... yet. They aren't going to get better by trading for more reclamation projects or calling them shit.

- Hard time believing that MLSE is happy with missing a minimum of 3 additional ticket selling dates (CCL) and will instead be happy with playoffs and its maximum potential of 4 home games. Especially when they just needed one of their combined $7.7m investments to score.

- as for this BS about not wanting to win, if that is the case who the f@ck is TFC to say it doesn't want to win something? Was Tim L for a culture change... to one of winning... Or not?

how do playoff bound teams play?4 to 6 new starters,injuries left and right...if we win sat.we got 6 wins out of 11 games,missing the overpaid engine that runs our midfield for 4 to 5 games.

[Hamilton_Red]

In rank of achievement I'd say that the following is the order:

1) Concacaf Champions League
2) Presidents Cup
3) MLS Cup Final
4) Voyageurs Cup

i suppose we could add the World Club Cup ...which you qualify for if you win concacaf. I rally enjoyed the Concacaf games at BMO - those games against Mexican clubs were of the highest quality. Losing to a divison rival over two legs is never acceptable...especially when we have weeks off. Our team has up to 5 games in hand of some MLs teams...fatigue can't be a factor.

[Cashcleaner]

I wanted a win like everyone else, but the result is not so bad to me. Now there are no excuses, MLS playoffs are the core focus. We simply don't have the depth for pursuing both the CCL and the MLS playoffs.

I don't believe we should accept that, though. Or at least I don't think it should be the attitude we and the club should ever adopt.

Toronto FC could win the MLS. We could take the Supporters Shield. We could even win every match in the regular season. But even if we were to accomplish all of those goals, the fact remains that none of them opens up higher levels of competition for us (ie: Concacaf Champions League and the Club World Cup).

The league is important in that it's our bread and butter. We get it. It makes sense. But the Canadian Championship is nothing we should ever take lightly for a number of reasons. Even if you forget about what I posted above about the avenue to higher competition, we're also playing to determine the best pro soccer team in the country. Shouldn't it be a source of pride to say our club has accomplished that four years in a row?

And conversely, when we lose these matches like we did tonight, I don't believe we should shrug them off or justify the bad performance (not suggesting you are, Thomas). I'm kinda pissed that we couldn't get the win against Montreal. Montreal! Are we all aware how incredibly shit the Impact have been this year? They've got four, maybe five useful players on their whole fucking squad!

[TFCDP]

I am officially done with this team. It's one bloody big disappointment after another. I would like to thank everyone from this forum for all the hours of reading and Denime for the news every morning. Its been a slice.