Unite The South End

[prizby]

I have had some talks about that as well. But nothing firm just trying to keep the increases as low as possible and stress the need to keep them affordable.

stress that this is not a TML crowd;

wish they'd price us like Bayern Munich, not Arsenal (in the future)

[FluSH]

Rewind 2 years....

Who could imagine that THIS is what we would be debating?

I think that this is freaking awesome!

I have been thinking about it a bit, and I think that what we probably need to do to improve atmosphere is wait...

New younger supporters coming in and filling out the stadium and supporters sections.

Every year we talk about this! We've talked about this all the time... I'm not sure about the other boards but certainly here. We should justgroup all threads into one lol

[Phil]

stress that this is not a TML crowd;

wish they'd price us like Bayern Munich, not Arsenal (in the future)

I have seen some progress in the talks, remember its the TML crowd running the show on the ticket end now. So its not easy.

[prizby]

Every year we talk about this! We've talked about this all the time... I'm not sure about the other boards but certainly here. We should justgroup all threads into one lol

#AllForOne

[Pookie]

how do you know that?

Yes should have clarified. New season ticket holders pay $704. Lots of speculation as to where renewal pricing will fall next year. Many are betting close to new season ticket holder prices.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Yes should have clarified. New season ticket holders pay $704. Lots of speculation as to where renewal pricing will fall next year. Many are betting close to new season ticket holder prices.

So I guess the many that walked away from seasons have more reasons to come back now that the new STH prices will be much the same, huh?

[ManUtd4ever]

Unite us!

[Bardown Snipes]

Wrong.

This will mean to buy tickets in this section the team will give you a warning much like they have signage in the stands saying what may be happening in the section. That does not create hardcore support. It creates people who tick a box to get cheap tickets. There will be no interview process to ensure the desired result is achieved.
Also the roof design as it is now WILL NOT help acoustics. It's far to high and not closed off at the back. It won't even cover half the stand from the elements. Ya know, if one cares about that sort of thing...

A roof would help, it cages in the sound and reflects it back onto the field instead of just being let out into the air. This way, many sections will hear eachother cheering and it will be far louder. If you look at any stadium with a roof, it is way louder because the sound is reflected. If you ever go to Leaf games, the roof is what keeps the sound in the building and it echoes inside (its the same principle).

[OgtheDim]

There are sounds at Leaf games?

[brad]

So I guess the many that walked away from seasons have more reasons to come back now that the new STH prices will be much the same, huh?

I'll continue to take my chances on the secondary market. So far that is proving to be a way cheaper option for me that it would have been to become an SSH again at the entry level price points.

I'm also going to hedge my bets on prices on the secondary market remaining low (or even dropping off) once the supply increase.

[Flint]

First off, there are different groups for a reason. Everyone sees support differently and that's okay. Groups are split all over the world but they still work well together. That's what I'd like to see here. Every group working together recognized under one banner (South Stand Supporters, whatever) while still holding onto their individual identity

You can also put me into the pro GA crowd. The only reason being growth.

As much as the SG's are comfortable in 112-114, the current setup is not allowing any growth and to grow, things have to change.

Think of it from a newcomers perspective. How difficult is it for any newcomer to just join a group and become involved in the stands? When I first joined RPB, I bought my membership, a year later I helped on my first banner, and by the next year I finally was regularly in 112. It's not an easy process for anyone who doesn't necessarily have the drive that I did at the get go. GA would allow all current like minded supporters to be together without the hassle as well as make it MUCH easier for any newcomer who has any interest to go where the action is and learn how to become a part of it.

At one point we were the top supporters in MLS. Now we are at the bottom 1/3 easily because we have not evolved. To get back to the top we must change.

[Pookie]

So I guess the many that walked away from seasons have more reasons to come back now that the new STH prices will be much the same, huh?

If you consider being amongst the highest in MLS with no resale value, then yeah I guess

I personally am very comfortable seeing the team on my own terms. Sarcity is not an issue. Easiest sold out ticket in town to get.

[mook-life]

First off, there are different groups for a reason. Everyone sees support differently and that's okay. Groups are split all over the world but they still work well together. That's what I'd like to see here. Every group working together recognized under one banner (South Stand Supporters, whatever) while still holding onto their individual identity

You can also put me into the pro GA crowd. The only reason being growth.

As much as the SG's are comfortable in 112-114, the current setup is not allowing any growth and to grow, things have to change.

Think of it from a newcomers perspective. How difficult is it for any newcomer to just join a group and become involved in the stands? When I first joined RPB, I bought my membership, a year later I helped on my first banner, and by the next year I finally was regularly in 112. It's not an easy process for anyone who doesn't necessarily have the drive that I did at the get go. GA would allow all current like minded supporters to be together without the hassle as well as make it MUCH easier for any newcomer who has any interest to go where the action is and learn how to become a part of it.

At one point we were the top supporters in MLS. Now we are at the bottom 1/3 easily because we have not evolved. To get back to the top we must change.

I think he is bang on

[FluSH]

I'd rather start uniting the south in voice before we start unitin the whole stadium in voice besides the whole stadium singing will never happen

Yeah when I said united in voice it's united as supporters in voice... those of us in the south including 111/110... I'm not crazy enough to think that we can get the whole stadium signing together

[FluSH]

First off, there are different groups for a reason. Everyone sees support differently and that's okay. Groups are split all over the world but they still work well together. That's what I'd like to see here. Every group working together recognized under one banner (South Stand Supporters, whatever) while still holding onto their individual identity

You can also put me into the pro GA crowd. The only reason being growth.

As much as the SG's are comfortable in 112-114, the current setup is not allowing any growth and to grow, things have to change.

Think of it from a newcomers perspective. How difficult is it for any newcomer to just join a group and become involved in the stands? When I first joined RPB, I bought my membership, a year later I helped on my first banner, and by the next year I finally was regularly in 112. It's not an easy process for anyone who doesn't necessarily have the drive that I did at the get go. GA would allow all current like minded supporters to be together without the hassle as well as make it MUCH easier for any newcomer who has any interest to go where the action is and learn how to become a part of it.

At one point we were the top supporters in MLS. Now we are at the bottom 1/3 easily because we have not evolved. To get back to the top we must change.

I hear what you are saying but the first mistake is believing that supporters are like minded people... we in Toronto are not. In fact we are very different. GA would be pure chaos and lawlessness leading into fights like u have never seen. I am strongly against GA and in my opinion its a cop out for people that do not wish to take the time to teach their neighbour how to chant and bring them into the fold. We in RPB have brought many ppl into the fold... I dare say more so than any other group out there!

[Flint]

I hear what you are saying but the first mistake is believing that supporters are like minded people... we in Toronto are not. In fact we are very different. GA would be pure chaos and lawlessness leading into fights like u have never seen. I am strongly against GA and in my opinion its a cop out for people that do not wish to take the time to teach their neighbour how to chant and bring them into the fold. We in RPB have brought many ppl into the fold... I dare say more so than any other group out there!

I didn't say that we were he same. Actually, I said the opposite that there is a reason there are different groups. That we are all different. That doesn't mean we can't all work together as TFC supporters while keeping our own identity.

I think your idea of GA is a little extreme. While there would be growing pains, I don't think it would turn into complete caos. What it would do is eliminate some major arguments. People who complain about flags because they are blocking their view and their only argument is "we've had these seats since day one" when you tell them there are many unobstructed views in the stadium. People who scalped tickes and get security to move supporters out of their seats then sitting down and taking pictures all game effectively killing support. I don't think it's a cop out as you say. It would allow people who feel alienated from support in 114-117 to finally join in if they please. It would also allow new people to buy a ticket in the south and immediately become a part of everything. Again I site myself as it was very difficult to finally feel like I was a part of everything even as determined as I was. It took me at least 2 years to feel like a real part of things. It can't happen like that. We have to get new blood instantly involved and that will happen best with GA.

I agree RPB has been the most successful in bringing many people in. It was the first group I turned to when I got interested. But you also have to look at it as it is. The core of support hasn't grown out of 112 since the beginning and has actually contracted to the lower portion of 112. The upper portion is mostly tourists (I saw this first hand on Saturday).

To grow the support, the way it's been done has to change or else Toronto support will be left in the dust. We can't teach new, more complex chants to people if they arent singing the simple ole's.

[prizby]

I hear what you are saying but the first mistake is believing that supporters are like minded people... we in Toronto are not. In fact we are very different. GA would be pure chaos and lawlessness leading into fights like u have never seen. I am strongly against GA and in my opinion its a cop out for people that do not wish to take the time to teach their neighbour how to chant and bring them into the fold. We in RPB have brought many ppl into the fold... I dare say more so than any other group out there!

when your neighbours have repeatedly said they have no interest in joining in and are only their because the tickets are cheap and they don't care to be supporters, it gets really hard to create a change

[FluSH]

when your neighbours have repeatedly said they have no interest in joining in and are only their because the tickets are cheap and they don't care to be supporters, it gets really hard to create a change

You can't force people into a culture... that will gradually come..

[FluSH]

I didn't say that we were he same. Actually, I said the opposite that there is a reason there are different groups. That we are all different. That doesn't mean we can't all work together as TFC supporters while keeping our own identity.

I think your idea of GA is a little extreme. While there would be growing pains, I don't think it would turn into complete caos. What it would do is eliminate some major arguments. People who complain about flags because they are blocking their view and their only argument is "we've had these seats since day one" when you tell them there are many unobstructed views in the stadium. People who scalped tickes and get security to move supporters out of their seats then sitting down and taking pictures all game effectively killing support. I don't think it's a cop out as you say. It would allow people who feel alienated from support in 114-117 to finally join in if they please. It would also allow new people to buy a ticket in the south and immediately become a part of everything. Again I site myself as it was very difficult to finally feel like I was a part of everything even as determined as I was. It took me at least 2 years to feel like a real part of things. It can't happen like that. We have to get new blood instantly involved and that will happen best with GA.

I agree RPB has been the most successful in bringing many people in. It was the first group I turned to when I got interested. But you also have to look at it as it is. The core of support hasn't grown out of 112 since the beginning and has actually contracted to the lower portion of 112. The upper portion is mostly tourists (I saw this first hand on Saturday).

To grow the support, the way it's been done has to change or else Toronto support will be left in the dust. We can't teach new, more complex chants to people if they arent singing the simple ole's.

I know many in the uppers of 112, but if you say they are tourists it only proves to the point that even with tourists a supporter group can make them chant... Last Wednesday was a prime example as these tourist chicks came into 112.. actual touristas from another section ( God knows where ) infiltrated the section just to chant... we had to kick them out because of disorderly conduct.

Disorderly conduct is what you will get with GA. Growing pains should be building a culture of support with patience... not let's have chaos and fights with GA to see who remains and take it from there. If people want to be like club X in Europe now... then I'm sorry.... European supporter culture is not only very homogeneous in politics and race, but it was also not built in such a short term.

[FluSH]

Bottom line... just like the girls who invaded our section last Wednesday just to chant, if you are in 117-114 then ppl should levitate to you and come down to join u where ever you are... that's how we have brought in many into the fold... many supporters that have done great things for the club and many more will follow.

[Cashcleaner]

I hear what you are saying but the first mistake is believing that supporters are like minded people... we in Toronto are not. In fact we are very different. GA would be pure chaos and lawlessness leading into fights like u have never seen. I am strongly against GA and in my opinion its a cop out for people that do not wish to take the time to teach their neighbour how to chant and bring them into the fold. We in RPB have brought many ppl into the fold... I dare say more so than any other group out there!

I agree with Flush on this. GA could create just as many problems as it could potentially solve. Partly because we're going to have a whole bunch of people wanting to do their own things in close proximity of others doing something else. We're not all on the same page now, right? Well what makes anyone think we will be when we're sitting closer to each other? There's still going to be a handful of groups with a dozen or so members that will want to do their own thing. How do I know this? Because they're always talking about doing their own thing. Like when they insist on bringing in and setting their own smoke and flares and we're the ones hauled in by the FO to explain ourselves.

I didn't receive an answer the the question that I posed in the first page of the thread, but the fact is that our group has been approached by others to speak to the FO on their behalf and the issue of General Attendance is no different. I get the argument some have for GA in the South End, but I want people to be upfront about it. Are their presence really going to dramatically "unite" the supporters, or do they just want to be where the action is where they can continue to do their own thing but without the restrictions that exist in other parts of the stadium?

[FluSH]

To grow the support, the way it's been done has to change or else Toronto support will be left in the dust. We can't teach new, more complex chants to people if they arent singing the simple ole's.

The Massive
I can't get enough
The Bounce (to some extent)

All examples above that NA's (nonaffiliated) supporters chant - sometimes out numbering our section in 112 in the case of the Massive.

So yes, ppl will learn good, catchy, and fun chants...but dont expect the ole's... ole's are just fillers and this is from me coming a capo

[FluSH]

I agree with Flush on this. GA could create just as many problems as it could potentially solve. Partly because we're going to have a whole bunch of people wanting to do their own things in close proximity of others doing something else. We're not all on the same page now, right? Well what makes anyone think we will be when we're sitting closer to each other? There's still going to be a handful of groups with a dozen or so members that will want to do their own thing. How do I know this? Because they're always talking about doing their own thing. Like when they insist on bringing in and setting their own smoke and flares and we're the ones hauled in by the FO to explain ourselves.

I didn't receive an answer the the question that I posed in the first page of the thread, but the fact is that our group has been approached by others to speak to the FO on their behalf and the issue of General Attendance is no different. I get the argument some have for GA in the South End, but I want people to be upfront about it. Are their presence really going to dramatically "unite" the supporters, or do they just want to be where the action is where they can continue to do their own thing but without the restrictions that exist in other parts of the stadium?

GA... I'm against it and will continue to be against it.

[Marc"2L"]

Start with learning chants and teaching those who don't know the chants. United in Voice should be the goal... not uniting the south.

This is key, we won't all unite under one banner for various reasons yet, we are united in how we would like to support.

Getting all of those folks together is not an easy task.

[Fort York Redcoat]

A roof would help, it cages in the sound and reflects it back onto the field instead of just being let out into the air. This way, many sections will hear eachother cheering and it will be far louder. If you look at any stadium with a roof, it is way louder because the sound is reflected. If you ever go to Leaf games, the roof is what keeps the sound in the building and it echoes inside (its the same principle).

This is what I just posted to Gooner a page back:

Gooner as the plans state (as of now and we can hope they change) The roof HAS NO BACK. No sound to roll back. It's higher than necessary for us since they want the stands to move back for gridiron.

So when you look at other clubs stadia remember we're not getting what they have. Not unless plans change.

Acoustically, this roof will not help.

[Jack]

Acoustically, this roof will not help.

You think so? I'm no acoustics expert, so if I'm wrong, I'd love to hear the explanation. But wouldn't any roof, even one that's open, at least keep some of the sound in?

[FluSH]

This is what I just posted to Gooner a page back:




Acoustically, this roof will not help.

We need to petition for it to have a back. Millions are going to be invested we might as well push to have it done right the first time around!

[Fort York Redcoat]

You think so? I'm no acoustics expert, so if I'm wrong, I'd love to hear the explanation. But wouldn't any roof, even one that's open, at least keep some of the sound in?

Again I'll say this is just -The last plans I've seen so far- But with no back the sound won't project and the design calls for a moving stand so the roof has to be high enough to not obstruct as the stands move behind it. This means not only does it fail to cover more than half the stand but any sound bouncing off a roof that high would be minimal and useless to time to.

And just to clarify my stance,

I'm not AGAINST a roof. I'm against a roof that doesn't help us AND more importantly comes with Argos. So I'm eager to see a plan that at least will satiate the peeps so excited for a roof that will help support or make them comfortable.

THIS PLAN IS NOT IT.

[Phil]

Considering those were concept drawings, and how often concepts become reality, I wouldn't hang my hat on any of that being near 'final'.

Curious to see what they are going to try though.

[ryan]

Is there an opportunity to hammer home the actual desire for a closed in roof?

I mean, they are bringing us one partly because we've clamoured for it, correct? The reason we want it is for sound more than anything. I don't think any of us Canucks really give two shits about the weather aspect...