Unite The South End

[brad]

Once BMO field gets renovated, the seating arrangement will be changed. It only makes sense for MLSE to create a supporter section. This way, the sections would be louder and full with hard core supporters in addition to the roof that has been proposed. With the new roof, it will be louder and people will hear cheers from other sections

This is the only way to do it IMHO. Create a new supporters section, in a new areas allow those that want to unify in it to move to it. Moving seats should be a choice, and not forced on anyone - on either side.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Once BMO field gets renovated, the seating arrangement will be changed. It only makes sense for MLSE to create a supporter section. This way, the sections would be louder and full with hard core supporters in addition to the roof that has been proposed. With the new roof, it will be louder and people will hear cheers from other sections

Wrong.

This will mean to buy tickets in this section the team will give you a warning much like they have signage in the stands saying what may be happening in the section. That does not create hardcore support. It creates people who tick a box to get cheap tickets. There will be no interview process to ensure the desired result is achieved.
Also the roof design as it is now WILL NOT help acoustics. It's far to high and not closed off at the back. It won't even cover half the stand from the elements. Ya know, if one cares about that sort of thing...

[MartinUtd]

Playing devils advocate here - but how would you feel if that tough decision was you and the rest of the vocal supporters getting relocated to a different area of the stadium, without any say in where?

I'd be bummed out, I admit it. But I also don't feel any special entitlements just because.

I was a season ticket holder for the first 5 seasons so it's not like I haven't been in the position.

[ryan]

Wrong.

This will mean to buy tickets in this section the team will give you a warning much like they have signage in the stands saying what may be happening in the section. That does not create hardcore support. It creates people who tick a box to get cheap tickets. There will be no interview process to ensure the desired result is achieved.
Also the roof design as it is now WILL NOT help acoustics. It's far to high and not closed off at the back. It won't even cover half the stand from the elements. Ya know, if one cares about that sort of thing...

I think it'll add, albeit minimally, not what people are hoping/expecting.

[Abou Sky]

This has been a topic since just about day 1. Nothing new here.

Ya, but 2 years ago, we were 1-9

[Phil]

To be fair, they haven't finalized the design of the roof or even configuration of the stands.

I was supposed to be at a meeting last week but bailed due to the lovely traffic on a weekday game night. LOL

Hopefully I will have an update soon on the coming changes and what it may mean for our group.

[TorontoGooner]

From my experience of visiting various MLS grounds with GA, the atmopshere is 10x better than BMO. The fans in Portland have a routine, they get to the stadium the same time every week to get the same spot. As a kid growing up I stood on the North Bank at Arsenal and was in the same spot every week. What this means is you get the connection with those around you, and you're more willing to stand up. Also, the club would like the idea of GA from business perspective. Everyone who wants their usual spot will get there earlier, and with not much else to do will buy beer. And lots of it. More beer = more singing (sorry it does, and I apologise to my neighbours for it when I stumble home from games)

I totally get that there will be those that oppose to moving, and I respect that. But if those same people then bemoan the atmosphere a few years down the line (if GA isn't implemented), that would be pretty rich of them. There's way too many people sat down in the South Stand, not joining in. GA weeds out the tourists and those who turn up late to games on a frequent basis. Change is needed before this becomes a real problem.

As for the point earlier raised about 'how about we all unite in singing'? Well, we can't, because the whole setup is rather disjointed at the moment. There's pockets of 100 or so people all doing completely different things. Uniting all the boisterous fans in the middle 114/115 will help that. Even just three or four blocks of GA would help.

Again, I get the arguments against GA and people not willing to move their seats. But its a supporters section, and unless we do something within the next year or so, it won't be much of one.

[TorontoGooner]

Wrong.

This will mean to buy tickets in this section the team will give you a warning much like they have signage in the stands saying what may be happening in the section. That does not create hardcore support. It creates people who tick a box to get cheap tickets. There will be no interview process to ensure the desired result is achieved.
Also the roof design as it is now WILL NOT help acoustics. It's far to high and not closed off at the back. It won't even cover half the stand from the elements. Ya know, if one cares about that sort of thing...

It will help acoustics, it really will. The noise will roll up towards the back of the stand and then get pushed down again. I for one can not wait to have a roof. Mark my words, the atmosphere will become incredible. But we have to do this right. Moving those together who want to sing will help.

If you don't think it won't create hardcore support to have GA, then take a look at Portland, Seattle, San Jose and even Montreal Impact. We're a long way behind those guys these days

[Fort York Redcoat]

It will help acoustics, it really will. The noise will roll up towards the back of the stand and then get pushed down again. I for one can not wait to have a roof. Mark my words, the atmosphere will become incredible. But we have to do this right. Moving those together who want to sing will help.

If you don't think it won't create hardcore support to have GA, then take a look at Portland, Seattle, San Jose and even Montreal Impact. We're a long way behind those guys these days

Gooner as the plans state (as of now and we can hope they change) The roof HAS NO BACK. No sound to roll back. It's higher than necessary for us since they want the stands to move back for gridiron.

So when you look at other clubs stadia remember we're not getting what they have. Not unless plans change.

[Pookie]

From my experience of visiting various MLS grounds with GA, the atmopshere is 10x better than BMO. The fans in Portland have a routine, they get to the stadium the same time every week to get the same spot. As a kid growing up I stood on the North Bank at Arsenal and was in the same spot every week. What this means is you get the connection with those around you, and you're more willing to stand up. Also, the club would like the idea of GA from business perspective. Everyone who wants their usual spot will get there earlier, and with not much else to do will buy beer. And lots of it. More beer = more singing (sorry it does, and I apologise to my neighbours for it when I stumble home from games)

I totally get that there will be those that oppose to moving, and I respect that. But if those same people then bemoan the atmosphere a few years down the line (if GA isn't implemented), that would be pretty rich of them. There's way too many people sat down in the South Stand, not joining in. GA weeds out the tourists and those who turn up late to games on a frequent basis. Change is needed before this becomes a real problem.

As for the point earlier raised about 'how about we all unite in singing'? Well, we can't, because the whole setup is rather disjointed at the moment. There's pockets of 100 or so people all doing completely different things. Uniting all the boisterous fans in the middle 114/115 will help that. Even just three or four blocks of GA would help.

Again, I get the arguments against GA and people not willing to move their seats. But its a supporters section, and unless we do something within the next year or so, it won't be much of one.

The biggest issue is ticket prices. People go to the south end for a variety of reasons but price is the main variable. Imagine being asked $1,400 for a pair with the vantage point of the south end? That's what MLSE is asking North end buyers to pay.

Where do you think they will relocate to if given the change?

With the DPs and the history of MLSE, this price pressure isn't going to change any time soon.

[jabbronies]

The biggest issue is ticket prices. People go to the south end for a variety of reasons but price is the main variable. Imagine being asked $1,400 for a pair with the vantage point of the south end? That's what MLSE is asking North end buyers to pay.

Where do you think they will relocate to if given the change?

With the DPs and the history of MLSE, this price pressure isn't going to change any time soon.

The upper portion of the north end is pretty decent though in terms of vantage point - but you really do have to be higher up.

it gives you an NHL94 view. Pretty interesting way to watch the match.

[Pookie]

^ it is. But at 2-3x the prices of the south?

Folks aren't going to accept being relocated to a section (any section) that forces them to pay double, triple or worse. That is the biggest barrier.

[Pint]

Combining of groups won't happen... As far as i can see the groups get along reasonably well and are willing to help each other out when necessary but the appetite to combine is not their from what I see.

Now in voice is a different story but as has been pointed out already it is hard to hear what is going on in other sections. Even in the same section it can be hard to hear what is going on depending on your distance from the Capo.

We will see what happens in a new stadium in terms of supporter areas but that's a conversation that can take place once a design/plan is available

[Jack]

Building that north stand could have been a great opportunity to unite supporters in one section, as has been done by many other teams around the league in the past decade or so. They aren't really any better seats than the south end in terms of sight lines, other than being a bit higher, so they could have been priced the same. Of course, it was managed by Anselmi and PB, who were more concerned about filling it with people willing to pay the higher price than about setting up a unified north stand and fostering a better support environment. No one realized what was going to happen in Toronto back at the beginning, so it's understandable that the support was jammed into the southeast corner and scattered in other parts of the stadium, but this was a missed chance to correct that, in my eyes.

It would have been something. I think the higher vantage point provided by those seats would make it seem like the support was right on top of the pitch. The opposing keeper would feel like we were right on top of his neck and when attacking, opponents would feel like they were attacking a seething mob looming over the goal. The higher stand would also project the chants to the rest of the stadium a little better.

It's a dream I've had more than once...

As for uniting the groups, you don't need to have everyone under the same group, just working together. Cooperation exists, for the most part, amongst the groups. It's about getting everyone together in the same areas. I'm sure everyone remembers the two massive Columbus trips from a few years back and how great it was to get large groups of supporters all in one area of the stadium.

[Alonso]

I believe once the Stadium is upgraded then we should see supporters all in the same area I for one support this idea big time

Yeah I agree, and somewhere in the middle at a discounted rater like DC United would be a great gesture from the team. A pipe dream for sure, but you never know... maybe middle top on the east end if they add seating there. I know a lot of supporters like being closer to the action, but the view of the game isn't great right at field level.

[reggie]

Building that north stand could have been a great opportunity to unite supporters in one section, as has been done by many other teams around the league in the past decade or so. They aren't really any better seats than the south end in terms of sight lines, other than being a bit higher, so they could have been priced the same. Of course, it was managed by Anselmi and PB, who were more concerned about filling it with people willing to pay the higher price than about setting up a unified north stand and fostering a better support environment. No one realized what was going to happen in Toronto back at the beginning, so it's understandable that the support was jammed into the southeast corner and scattered in other parts of the stadium, but this was a missed chance to correct that, in my eyes.

It would have been something. I think the higher vantage point provided by those seats would make it seem like the support was right on top of the pitch. The opposing keeper would feel like we were right on top of his neck and when attacking, opponents would feel like they were attacking a seething mob looming over the goal. The higher stand would also project the chants to the rest of the stadium a little better.

It's a dream I've had more than once...

As for uniting the groups, you don't need to have everyone under the same group, just working together. Cooperation exists, for the most part, amongst the groups. It's about getting everyone together in the same areas. I'm sure everyone remembers the two massive Columbus trips from a few years back and how great it was to get large groups of supporters all in one area of the stadium.

great idea,now is the time to do it,has ther been any talks with TL about this?

[prizby]

cause of all the delays, subway being down, construction....took me 2 fucking hours to get downtown from just Eglinton. Could have walked faster. Hard to gauge THAT much extra time being needed. Thankfully for me, I was shooting to be there well early, but the non supporter is not aiming for that.

which would beg the question, why are they in the supporters end then

Im in 117 was generally happy how things were there for a long while (first 5 or so seasons), there were chants, not necessarily organized but organic and everyone in our stand and most of the west side would get going. now its mostly tourists and the chanting is sporadic at best. Wouldnt mind a capo sorta, not a fan of General admission. We've had the same seats since the second day of tickets going on sale and I want these seats until im dead. Even then i expect my grandkids to take them over.

your going to lose the seat next year; you'll get the same area sort of, but i figure they sections are going to change a bit with filling in of the corners and rebuilt stand

Playing devils advocate here - but how would you feel if that tough decision was you and the rest of the vocal supporters getting relocated to a different area of the stadium, without any say in where?

for GA..sure

^ it is. But at 2-3x the prices of the south?

Folks aren't going to accept being relocated to a section (any section) that forces them to pay double, triple or worse. That is the biggest barrier.

i don't think anyone disagrees that MLSE has screwed up royally on its pricing strategy for years; rebuilt stands will give themselves a chance to try something new

Building that north stand could have been a great opportunity to unite supporters in one section, as has been done by many other teams around the league in the past decade or so. They aren't really any better seats than the south end in terms of sight lines, other than being a bit higher, so they could have been priced the same. Of course, it was managed by Anselmi and PB, who were more concerned about filling it with people willing to pay the higher price than about setting up a unified north stand and fostering a better support environment. No one realized what was going to happen in Toronto back at the beginning, so it's understandable that the support was jammed into the southeast corner and scattered in other parts of the stadium, but this was a missed chance to correct that, in my eyes.

It would have been something. I think the higher vantage point provided by those seats would make it seem like the support was right on top of the pitch. The opposing keeper would feel like we were right on top of his neck and when attacking, opponents would feel like they were attacking a seething mob looming over the goal. The higher stand would also project the chants to the rest of the stadium a little better.

It's a dream I've had more than once...

boom spot on...they are steeper which makes overhead tifos better as well...i still remember the one game in the rain against vancouver when we all marched to the north and supported their in the 2nd half and it was one of the best times i've had at a tfc game to date

[Phil]

great idea,now is the time to do it,has ther been any talks with TL about this?

Believe it or not TL isn't really the driver on this.

But yes, talks are prgressing with the people responsible at MLSE.

[Pookie]

which would beg the question, why are they in the supporters end then

Have you checked the price of tickets outside the south?

[reggie]

Believe it or not TL isn't really the driver on this.

But yes, talks are prgressing with the people responsible at MLSE.

thx phil...so do you think there will be changes for the good?

[Pookie]

Building that north stand could have been a great opportunity to unite supporters in one section, as has been done by many other teams around the league in the past decade or so. They aren't really any better seats than the south end in terms of sight lines, other than being a bit higher, so they could have been priced the same. Of course, it was managed by Anselmi and PB, who were more concerned about filling it with people willing to pay the higher price than about setting up a unified north stand and fostering a better support environment. No one realized what was going to happen in Toronto back at the beginning, so it's understandable that the support was jammed into the southeast corner and scattered in other parts of the stadium, but this was a missed chance to correct that, in my eyes.

It would have been something. I think the higher vantage point provided by those seats would make it seem like the support was right on top of the pitch. The opposing keeper would feel like we were right on top of his neck and when attacking, opponents would feel like they were attacking a seething mob looming over the goal. The higher stand would also project the chants to the rest of the stadium a little better.

It's a dream I've had more than once...

As for uniting the groups, you don't need to have everyone under the same group, just working together. Cooperation exists, for the most part, amongst the groups. It's about getting everyone together in the same areas. I'm sure everyone remembers the two massive Columbus trips from a few years back and how great it was to get large groups of supporters all in one area of the stadium.

So how do you handle the financial aspect to a move like this?

Going rate in the north end is $1,400 for a pair. Are SG's going to pay that?

Are relocated folks (to the south) going to see their prices drop to the $500 mark? If not, they could be paying nearly 3x as much as their neighbour that didn't relocate.

All could be done if you simply make the price points level. But considering Defoe and Bradley, MLSE and the fact that North End seats have gone up by 19% since 2012... I wouldn't be too optimistic about that.

[TorontoGooner]

The biggest issue is ticket prices. People go to the south end for a variety of reasons but price is the main variable. Imagine being asked $1,400 for a pair with the vantage point of the south end? That's what MLSE is asking North end buyers to pay.

Where do you think they will relocate to if given the change?

With the DPs and the history of MLSE, this price pressure isn't going to change any time soon.

I'm in the North End and I only paid a grand for two seasons. I agree with the relocation issue, but why not just have three sections that are GA?

[Phil]

thx phil...so do you think there will be changes for the good?

I hope so but things are very dynamic with the Argos not being in the picture at the moment and with the provincial election coming up.

Once we pass that it should become much clearer.

[Pookie]

I'm in the North End and I only paid a grand for two seasons. I agree with the relocation issue, but why not just have three sections that are GA?

New prices are $704/seat. Get ready for 2015.

[reggie]

New prices are $704/seat. Get ready for 2015.

how do you know that?

[Pint]

how do you know that?

Probably talking about New SSh price compared to renewal price. Light grey was 225 renewal and ~360 for new SSH

[OgtheDim]

So how do you handle the financial aspect to a move like this?

Going rate in the north end is $1,400 for a pair. Are SG's going to pay that?

...

The amount of bodies in the north is nowhere near the 5K of people they are talking about putting in there.

[reggie]

ic..thx,TL did say if we make the playoff prices will go up..

[Phil]

ic..thx,TL did say if we make the playoff prices will go up..

I have had some talks about that as well. But nothing firm just trying to keep the increases as low as possible and stress the need to keep them affordable.

[Jack]

So how do you handle the financial aspect to a move like this?

Going rate in the north end is $1,400 for a pair. Are SG's going to pay that?

Are relocated folks (to the south) going to see their prices drop to the $500 mark? If not, they could be paying nearly 3x as much as their neighbour that didn't relocate.

All could be done if you simply make the price points level. But considering Defoe and Bradley, MLSE and the fact that North End seats have gone up by 19% since 2012... I wouldn't be too optimistic about that.

My post was a "coulda, shoulda, woulda" sort of thing. That's why I said:

They aren't really any better seats than the south end in terms of sight lines, other than being a bit higher, so they could have been priced the same. Of course, it was managed by Anselmi and PB, who were more concerned about filling it with people willing to pay the higher price than about setting up a unified north stand and fostering a better support environment.

and

this was a missed chance

As for pricing, those 1400 seats could have easily accommodated 1400 supporters at the same price as the south, but they marketed them at a different price point, despite not being that much better than the seats in 114, 115 and 116. I imagine they sold the seats, but that stand was pretty empty the past few years.

Now that we've got another renovation on the cards, it's another chance to get a united supporters end behind the goal. Provided the supporters are actually on board (which you never know).

We have seen that there are many who'd rather keep their current location, but if the pricing is the same and I get a similar location (if they don't do GA), then I'm all for moving up there and getting everyone in on it.