PK goals for/against in TFC history

[RKing85]

Hey everyone, first time poster.

Maybe this is something that has been brought up before. If so, my apologies.

Thinking last night that it seemed TFC never got penalty kicks and out opponents always got them. So this morning I went through wiki (I know, a very reliable resource) and counted all the Penalty Kick goals scored for and against TFC throughout it's history. This is only goals from the spot, not overall chances from the spot.

Year - TFC/Opponents

2007 - 1 / 8
2008 - 0 / 7
2009 - 0 /4
2010 - 3 / 8
2011 - 3 / 6
2012 - 0 / 2
2013 - 2/ 2
2014 - 0 / 4

Overall - 9 / 41

Now I'm not saying there is a conspiracy against TFC by the league or the refs or anything. But HOLY SHIT!!!! Is that not insane!?!?!?!?! Our opponents have over 5 times as many Penalty kicks goals as TFC in TFC's history!

[Yohan]

With stellar defenders like Marvell 'Handball' Wynne, Nick 'the Turtle' Garcia and Doneil 'the Clueless Hulk' Henry, no wonder PKs get called against TFC

[ryan]

Yeah, having poor or young defenders most of the time, combined with an anemic offensive attack that doesn't force tough tackles in the box....and the numbers fit.

[jabbronies]

You know what would really shed light on this - who the refs were that gave us these cards.

I bet most of them are from Toledo and Pretrescu

[MartinUtd]

You know what would really shed light on this - who the refs were that gave us these cards.

I bet most of them are from Toledo and Pretrescu

Sometimes I wonder if MLS has any other refs.

[RoyalRed]

Here are last year's MLS stats. Check them out, and see if anything jumps out as ... unusual. Hint: TOLEDO IS A FUCKING RED CARD MACHINE AND LEADS ON YELLOWS.


2013 Referee Stats

Referee	Games	Yellow Cards	Red Cards	Yellows per Game	Reds per Game
Bazakos, Fotis	13	59	3	4.5	0.2
Chapman, Allen	22	69	4	3.1	0.2
Elfath, Ismail	17	67	2	3.9	0.1
Fischer, Drew	16	47	2	2.9	0.1
Foerster, Matthew	11	38	2	3.5	0.2
Gamble, Geoff	5	17	2	3.4	0.4
Gantar, Dave	8	21	2	2.6	0.3
Geiger, Mark	15	44	5	2.9	0.4
Gonzalez, Jorge	13	42	8	3.2	0.6
Grajeda, Hilario	24	68	4	2.8	0.2
Guzman, Juan	16	43	6	2.7	0.4
Jurisevic, Edvin	15	39	4	2.6	0.3
Kadlecik, Mark	2	2	0	1.0	0.0
Marrufo, Jair	13	19	0	1.5	0.0
Penso, Chris	17	53	6	3.1	0.4
Petrescu, Silviu	19	71	3	3.7	0.2
Rivero, Jose Carlos	11	38	2	3.5	0.2
Salazar, Ricardo	21	60	6	2.9	0.3
Stoica, Sorin	10	43	4	4.3	0.4
Stott, Kevin	14	33	1	2.4	0.1
Toledo, Baldomero	23	74	12	3.2	0.6
Unkel, Ted	3	11	0	3.7	0
Villarreal, Armando	22	67	6	3.0	0.3

[ryan]

leading on yellows is misleading due to the games he's officiated. However, a 50% red rate is fucking LOL.

[Pookie]

Overall - 9 / 41

Now I'm not saying there is a conspiracy against TFC by the league or the refs or anything. But HOLY SHIT!!!! Is that not insane!?!?!?!?! Our opponents have over 5 times as many Penalty kicks goals as TFC in TFC's history!

Correlate that with possession and shots for and against. Without doing the math, I'd wager we spend more time defending (sorry…counter attacking) in most games that we play over our history.

If the ball not in their attacking 3rd, it's probably pretty hard to win penalties.

[RoyalRed]

leading on yellows is misleading due to the games he's officiated. However, a 50% red rate is fucking LOL.

Fair point re: yellows, though others who officiate similar numbers all come in lower than he does.

[TFC07]

Why doesn't MLS invest more in their refs? We got refs that hand out red cards every two games which is insane! Is there a ref outside MLS has that rate? The league needs to investigate into this matter.

[Derko]

You know what would really shed light on this - who the refs were that gave us these cards.

I bet most of them are from Toledo and Pretrescu

The thing I get out of the numbers is both Toledo and Petrescu WANT to determine the outcome of a match, which is wrong

[jabbronies]

The thing I get out of the numbers is both Toledo and Petrescu WANT to determine the outcome of a match, which is wrong

Or right depending on whom you are in the football world.
Corruption in North American football is a real thing and it's things like calls by the ref that people are betting on.

[ryan]

I'm not 100% sure I agree with that.

There's no one way to referee sport, any sport. Strike zone in MLB, fouls in NBA, penalties in NHL, etc. All subject to the referee's opinion and/or what he simply sees/doesn't see.

Considering human beings aren't all generic clones, variance should be expected. Variety is the spice of life and all that jazz.



A ref who's more aggressive/active in their calls doesn't confirm corruption at all. A ref could be equally corrupt by choosing not to call fouls, but there's no statistics behind that.

I don't think their style is wrong at all, it's simply their style and how they choose to moderate the game. It's only when you see extreme deviation that you wonder, in this case Toledo's use of the Red card.

[Initial B]

Considering what Nelsen said post game about Toledo, does anybody find it surprising that there has been no reaction from either MLS or PRO on the matter? No disciplinary measures?

[Abou Sky]

Toledo doesn't really bother me too much, he generally let's the game play not too inhibited and I find that he screws both teams pretty equally, Petrescu OTOH...

That man ruins the game and makes it unwatchable.

[cochrdoc]

Not only is TFC getting screwed,all 3 Canadian teams had penalties called against them last week.I would like to know the stats for the other 2 teams as well.

[ExiledRed]

Now I'm not saying there is a conspiracy against TFC by the league or the refs or anything.

Why not? I am. The refs are fucking corrupt, either that or they are incompetent to the extreme.

The fact that the poor reffing is never addressed leads me to believe they are acting under orders. If any team in the EPL was on the end of the kind of reffing we had during the Carver/Cummins period especially, the press would have had a field day.

Here, our 'flair' players are not protected by the referees. Whenever we play Dallas, our players get fouled brutally up and down the park with no whistle and we get called on every questionable contact. We even get the foul when it was the Dallas player fouling our guy! We get pulled offside when we are clearly not and the flag on the other side of the field operates under different rules. We are always the 'visiting' team at home also.

Its blatant.

Now Im going to be accused of wearing a tinfoil hat... watch

[Alixir]

Overall - 9 / 41

Now I'm not saying there is a conspiracy against TFC by the league or the refs or anything. But HOLY SHIT!!!! Is that not insane!?!?!?!?! Our opponents have over 5 times as many Penalty kicks goals as TFC in TFC's history!

This is what I have been yelping for a long time now and everyone seems to focus on the "41" part....its not that, its the "9" part.
Yes we do have a high rate of pks against due to years off a back line susceptible to giving up penalties, but how is it that so many times on so many occasions we have witnessed plays in the penalty area that are not called PKs for us but if it were the other way around you know its going to be called a penalty 98% of the time.
Penalties happen in football but we are averaging 1.01 PKs a year. You cant tell me that of all the games we play in a season and of all the handballs, and fouls in the box that are clearly visible that the ref misses it or just happens to have his view obstructed almost every time.


/endPKrant

[notthesun]

Maybe it's confirmation bias but I've always felt this team was hard done by when it comes to penalties. I feel like the soft ones go against us while we never get the blatant ones in our favour.

Pookie has a point, you do make your own luck to an extent with penalties. That being said, off the top of my head the only weak penalty we've had awarded I can think of is Dunfield's flop against SKC from last year's home opener in the SkyDome. Meanwhile the list of weak penalties we've conceded could go on and on (first one that comes to mind is Osorio last season getting struck in the arm, arms stuck to his sides, while in the wall defending a free kick). And I can think of a number of bona fide penalties we've been denied as well (O'Dea getting dragged to the ground in the six yard box at BMO last season is the first I remember).

9-ish penalties awarded in our favour over 7 years... while Colorado has gotten like 7 just this year already. I won't say it's a conspiracy but I think anti-Canadian bias is very real, at least for big decisions.

[ag futbol]

With stellar defenders like Marvell 'Handball' Wynne, Nick 'the Turtle' Garcia and Doneil 'the Clueless Hulk' Henry, no wonder PKs get called against TFC

This is it. Most of this is about a few bad teams and worse defending. Really nothing to see here.

I'll bet the number of penalties is directly proportional to the number of goals we score in the run of play compared to other teams.

[MightyDM]

Why not? I am. The refs are fucking corrupt, either that or they are incompetent to the extreme.

The fact that the poor reffing is never addressed leads me to believe they are acting under orders. If any team in the EPL was on the end of the kind of reffing we had during the Carver/Cummins period especially, the press would have had a field day.

Here, our 'flair' players are not protected by the referees. Whenever we play Dallas, our players get fouled brutally up and down the park with no whistle and we get called on every questionable contact. We even get the foul when it was the Dallas player fouling our guy! We get pulled offside when we are clearly not and the flag on the other side of the field operates under different rules. We are always the 'visiting' team at home also.

Its blatant.

Now Im going to be accused of wearing a tinfoil hat... watch

I rarely agree with you, but, its clear that there is something wrong. Likely not instructions but other things - implicit pressure by the league re US teams, conversations among the referees, something.

[MightyDM]

And don't forget Caldwell's goal being called back for a mystery foul in the box. Stuff like that happens all the time. To us.

[Pookie]

Maybe it's confirmation bias but I've always felt this team was hard done by when it comes to penalties. I feel like the soft ones go against us while we never get the blatant ones in our favour.

Pookie has a point, you do make your own luck to an extent with penalties. That being said, off the top of my head the only weak penalty we've had awarded I can think of is Dunfield's flop against SKC from last year's home opener in the SkyDome. Meanwhile the list of weak penalties we've conceded could go on and on (first one that comes to mind is Osorio last season getting struck in the arm, arms stuck to his sides, while in the wall defending a free kick). And I can think of a number of bona fide penalties we've been denied as well (O'Dea getting dragged to the ground in the six yard box at BMO last season is the first I remember).

9-ish penalties awarded in our favour over 7 years... while Colorado has gotten like 7 just this year already. I won't say it's a conspiracy but I think anti-Canadian bias is very real, at least for big decisions.

Anti-Canadian bias?

What are Vancouver and Montreal's stats?

I am willing to buy a league wide conspiracy in that big name money players will go to big teams as that is the way MLS as a collective makes money.

I am not at all willing to believe that there is a conscious and direct attempt to ensure that Colorado or Chivas or New England or Columbus take points from us and keep us at the bottom of the table.

Sorry boys. You give up shots. You give up possession. You are more likely to play the game in your own box. The more you play it in your box the more likely you are to foul a player.

It is that simple.

[ExiledRed]

Anti-Canadian bias?

What are Vancouver and Montreal's stats?

I am willing to buy a league wide conspiracy in that big name money players will go to big teams as that is the way MLS as a collective makes money.

I am not at all willing to believe that there is a conscious and direct attempt to ensure that Colorado or Chivas or New England or Columbus take points from us and keep us at the bottom of the table.

Sorry boys. You give up shots. You give up possession. You are more likely to play the game in your own box. The more you play it in your box the more likely you are to foul a player.

It is that simple.

Its about making sure that teams with low attendance do better, because they need to generate more fans.

[Pookie]

Its about making sure that teams with low attendance do better, because they need to generate more fans.

So big markets with players like Defoe don't need him and the team doing well and generating big gate receipts that are shared 50% with all the other investors?

They would rather have Columbus selling $20 4 packs with hotdogs and cokes at the expense of TFC and its league high ticket prices?

[ExiledRed]

So big markets with players like Defoe don't need him and the team doing well and generating big gate receipts that are shared 50% with all the other investors?

They would rather have Columbus selling $20 4 packs with hotdogs and cokes at the expense of TFC and its league high ticket prices?

My suspicion has always been that we were not supposed to be a big team with massive support. We were supposed to be filler for the league. That was how we were set up, what they expected us to be and that probably explains the lack of initial marketing dollars and skimping on infrastructure. The turnout and hype that was generated by the fans themselves changed everything.

Of course they want the big names in LA and NY and of course they want those teams to do well, but they cannot afford to have a league with teams that disappear or change cities every season. They need to increase the market as a whole, especially the TV, and as a result teams like Columbus, Dallas, SKC, and RSL, (all who had empty stadiums when we joined the league) need to be more competitive in order to attract new fans.

You like numbers, check the attendance to success figures prior to 2010

[notthesun]

I am not at all willing to believe that there is a conscious and direct attempt to ensure that Colorado or Chivas or New England or Columbus take points from us and keep us at the bottom of the table.

Don't twist my words. I didn't say this and I wouldn't believe it either.

[shwade]

Henrys probably given up half of those.

Toronto never gets penalties called against the other team. .countless handballs and fouls have gone unpunished when they definitely would've been called against toronto.

[ExiledRed]

This is what I have been yelping for a long time now and everyone seems to focus on the "41" part....its not that, its the "9" part.

Well put.

And lets not pretend we were hardly ever in their box. Chad Barrett alone missed more chances from the box than SKC had shots on net in a season.

[ExiledRed]

Why doesn't MLS invest more in their refs? We got refs that hand out red cards every two games which is insane! Is there a ref outside MLS has that rate? The league needs to investigate into this matter.

Or the league itself needs to be investigated.

I mean the silence from them on the issue IS deafening.