Gilberto Ongoing Discussion Thread

[burlington Red]

thing is when you have an aging superstar type, you don't have them for very long. at the very least you don't have them at their best for very long. It's a short term signing. I like the idea of a young Latin or south American relative unknown as a DP because it seems like more of a long term solution.

Problem i have is that now everyone 'expects' Gilberto to start scoring everygame and if he doesn't he is seen as a failure. Thats bullocks. he needs to start playing the majority of games and not just spot minutes.

Gilberto was never going to be a long term solution. First off players like him don't stay at clubs for longer than 2 maybe 3 seasons. Also people seem to think he is younger than he is, he's 25,he's no kid in footballing terms anyway.This season is a washout for him. Next season he is 26, we still don't know whether he'd better suited to an attacking mid role or as a striker, maybe even on the wing. He should be coming to his peak at that age.He came to the club with an injury, and I don't think he has ever really shook that off fully, which is ironic as Defoe was the DP we were most worried about pre season on that front. We knew he was a risk when we signed him, the same way we knew that Defoe would score goals when we signed him. I think when you sign a DP, you should be expecting a return, not hoping for one, which is what we are doing currently with him.At this point he is having more effect as an impact sub than what he had when he has started games.Defoe's goals are deflecting criticism from him a little, because if he wasn't scoring, Gilberto's limitations would be much more evident.

[trane]

We need to play Gilberto, he is a notch above in technique and creativity. Despite him not scoring enough for a 9, he creates, creates and creates, and yesterday, we dropped point because we lacked creativity. There Defoe, Bradley and Gilberto need to be on the pitch for us to be the best team we can be. I would also add Orr to that.

[Derko]

If we have two egos, two assholes, I'd rather have the one that is scoring rather than the one who isn't. We obviously disagree about this whole thing and that's fine, and since I never thought Gilberto was a good fit to begin with. I may be biased.

50/50 Hindsight, lol

[Red4ever]

It's actually not hindsight in the slightest. It may be me taking a curtain call on someone's shitty play, and therefore biased on what he has / has not , will / will not, accomplish, but it isn't hindsight. I would have called the deal off the second we got Bradley. Right or wrong decision, that's what I have always said.

[mowe]

It's way past time to start Gilberto. Play him with Defoe in a more withdrawn role. Bringing him on at the 75 minute mark just doesn't work.

[molenshtain]

I don't see why we can't play Gilberto, Moore and Defoe at the same time in a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. It makes the most sense with their current form and the build of our roster.

[Derko]

It's actually not hindsight in the slightest. It may be me taking a curtain call on someone's shitty play, and therefore biased on what he has / has not , will / will not, accomplish, but it isn't hindsight. I would have called the deal off the second we got Bradley. Right or wrong decision, that's what I have always said.

Wow slow down, that was tongue in cheek brother

[gmacpheetfc]

I don't really see Defoe fitting into the top of a 4-3-3 or out wide.

I wouldn't mind a 4-2-3-1 with Defoe as the one and moore and gilberto wide. Then the trouble is then the middle of the park. Osorio's decision making, passing ability and movement is not good enough to be alone in the middle and create chances going forward let alone retain possession. The 10 role in that formation fits nicely with Bradley's skill set. So if we were to say pick up say a Jermaine Jones...and park him in warner in midfield with gilberto bradley moore defoe up front....

[habstfc]

I like Moore when he's scoring but when he doesn't score he's invisible, like last night. When Gilberto isn't scoring he does other things that help the attack. I think they are slowly bringing him in so he doesn't reinjure himself. He scored that rocket in NY, got hurt and must be regaining fitness, that's the only thing that makes sense. I think he will start against Houston.

[Cashcleaner]

The TFC website shows Gilberto with 12 regular season matches and 706 minutes under his belt. And still only 1 goal and 2 assists to his name.

Does anyone still need time on this?

I have no problem saying it. The guy was brought in specifically to score goals and he simply hasn't lived up to his billing. He's contributed in other ways, of course, but there's no comparison between him and our other primary striker, Defoe. "Flop" sorta suggests he's been a complete failure and I wouldn't go that far, but he's definitely been underwhelming.

[hulkrogan]

Clint Dempsey had 1 goal and 0 assists in 651 minutes last year.

He's now on 9 goals and 3 assists in 839 minutes.

And this is an English speaking American coming back home to play.

To say we've seen enough of Gilberto to know what we have is absolutely asinine.

[Cashcleaner]

^ A couple things:

Firstly, Dempsey's record of 1 goal in 9 regular season games in 2013 is still better than Gilberto's current record of 1 in 12.

Secondly, The fact that Dempsey is having a pretty good season in 2014 doesn't negate his record in 2013 and any concerns people may have had over his performance then. I don't think it would have been particularly unreasonable for Sounders fans to question his impact after ten games last year. Though admittedly, the club is getting their money's worth from him this year.

At what point is it not asinine to gauge his performance in your eyes? Do you want to take the rest of the season? Perhaps longer?

Edit: Barticuz dropped a link to a player rating website here that looks pretty interesting. Check it out and see if you agree or disagree with Gilberto's current standing.

[shwade]

Those 9 games that Cunt Dempsey played last year..how many minutes of the 90 did he play? I'm guessing most if not all 90 minutes. The past 5 games Gilberto's got, at the most, 20 minutes in a game.

[CommradePolski]

#beardsforgilbertoround2?

Cashcleaner, stats arent everything. Have you seen the chips Gilberto has sent forward? Have you not seen that he is always ready and willing to run? He has great vision and ability. He actually has great work rate.

The issue is his confidence, he got the goal and promptly got hurt. That is not a good way for that to happen. I think he should start Saturday in place of Moore. Let Moore come in and close the game.

Lets see what Gilberto, Defoe, and Bradley can do.

Gilberto should get the season here and should not be moved prior to the end of the season.

I will not give up on this player! And neither should anyone else!

[hulkrogan]

I think you have to give him a full season, no question. The team is strong enough that you finally have the luxury of being patient with players.

[trane]

This for me is the strongest line up system for TFC;

---------------------12----------------
28---------13/15/17----13/15/17------2
--------------16-----4-------26--------
---------------------9-------------------
--------------18------------27-------------

Caldwell is our best CB, but I beleive in both Henry and Hugland as the pairing for the future.

Get the fullbacks to provide width, and they can, and you have creativity and finsihing in the midle. Orr and Warner can pass and help defend and spring the attack, and the General can marshall everyting as a regista (like Pirlo).

[ensco]

Molinaro had a note yesterday quoting Bez saying other teams have shown interest in Gilberto.

He's gone.

Gilberto won't result in a single renewal or new SSH. He has to go given what he costs. They need the $$ and the DP slot for a second half booster shot .

[Shakes McQueen]

Molinaro had a note yesterday quoting Bez saying there other teams have shown interest in Gilberto.

He's gone.

Gilberto won't result in a single renewal or new SSH. He has to go given what he costs. They need the dollas and the DP slot for a second half booster shot .

Pretty sure Bez also said they wanted to give him more time to settle in, or something along those lines, too. I agree though, it perked my ears up that he would even mention that other teams were interested in Gilberto (though I suppose it depends on what question he was asked - did he offer that information unprompted? did someone directly ask him if there was interest?).

I still like Gilberto as a player, but depending on who they had in mind to replace his salary and DP slot with, I might be okay with seeing him go. I don't think ticket renewals would really have anything to do with it, though, or they wouldn't have brought a no-name Brazilian in on a DP salary, in the first place.

[ensco]

I don't think ticket renewals would really have anything to do with it, though, or they wouldn't have brought a no-name Brazilian in on a DP salary, in the first place.

I think Gilberto was signed as a Marketing Plan B in case Defoe fell through, and who knows, because he might help them win.

Since he isn't helping them win, they'll find someone new who helps sell tickets.

[jazzy]

We need to play Gilberto, he is a notch above in technique and creativity. Despite him not scoring enough for a 9, he creates, creates and creates, and yesterday, we dropped point because we lacked creativity. There Defoe, Bradley and Gilberto need to be on the pitch for us to be the best team we can be. I would also add Orr to that.

Gilberto simply doesn't seem to be given prime minutes as per Moore...Nelson does have his favourites...Jackson for instance who doesn't ever seem to realize Defoe is our scorer....We have to stick by Gilberto . I feel if he ever goes to another team we'll be sorry . Teams fear him , as he is a loose cannon , fantastic , unpredictable .

[Shakes McQueen]

Gilberto simply doesn't seem to be given prime minutes as per Moore...Nelson does have his favourites...Jackson for instance who doesn't ever seem to realize Defoe is our scorer....We have to stick by Gilberto . I feel if he ever goes to another team we'll be sorry . Teams fear him , as he is a loose cannon , fantastic , unpredictable .

I don't know if I'd want to trade Gilberto to another MLS team, but what if the "interest" in him includes non-MLS teams?

At any rate, if they decide to give him a full season to work out the kinks, I'd be okay with that. I think he's a quality player, and has been inches away on several occasions, from having a very different stat sheet.

[Pookie]

I think Gilberto was signed as a Marketing Plan B in case Defoe fell through, and who knows, because he might help them win.

Since he isn't helping them win, they'll find someone new who helps sell tickets.

It would be frustrating if that is the case and he goes.

From a football perspective…. over the next 1-2 years they need to sell Defoe before his contract turns into DeRo… I know, I know… not the same player… super human and all that… but yeah, sell Defoe and replace him with players in their mid-20's that can elevate next year's draft crop.

Players like…. Gilberto.

[jazzy]

I don't know if I'd want to trade Gilberto to another MLS team, but what if the "interest" in him includes non-MLS teams?

At any rate, if they decide to give him a full season to work out the kinks, I'd be okay with that. I think he's a quality player, and has been inches away on several occasions, from having a very different stat sheet.

yes hopefully if he has to go , it's out of the league . But I'd hate to have him think he wasn't given a fair run .

[Shakes McQueen]

It would be frustrating if that is the case and he goes.

From a football perspective…. over the next 1-2 years they need to sell Defoe before his contract turns into DeRo… I know, I know… not the same player… super human and all that… but yeah, sell Defoe and replace him with players in their mid-20's that can elevate next year's draft crop.

Players like…. Gilberto.

I think this is why I'm trying to be fundamentally patient with Gilberto right now, despite the prolonged scoring slump. He's not utterly clueless out there, and he's clearly a quality footballer - he just hasn't figured things out for our MLS team yet. But if he finds his touch, guys like he and Bradley will be a titanium backbone for this team for years.

Defoe was a good acquisition to spin things around quickly, and I'm hopeful we can get three good seasons out of him (I don't expect anything beyond that), but he's now, not a future plan.

[Pookie]

^ agreed on Defoe.

I find that lately, I'm looking forward to the 60-70th minute when Gilberto tends to get his minutes. The team generally looks more threatening with him.

[nonc]

Even though I thought the acquisition of Gilberto was superficial and a flawed process, I believe he's a good player who will make a mark in MLS.

If he can't get a start in Houston after Moore's pathetic display against Vancouver then Gilberto is all but done with TFC, which is a shame because his attributes are exactly what Defoe needs and he's barely been given a chance. Moore couldn't even win ariel duels against Reo-Coker and Laba it was pathetic. Bloom and Jackson dominated the wings and while their service wasn't great, it was good enough and there was a lot of it. I don't remember Moore EVER getting on the end of anything. He makes a good first pass in transition I guess that's it. Gilberto can hold up direct play at least as well and offers a better target for that cutting wing service. Just better around the 18. He's a much more intuitive attacker in that sense, which I think somewhat explains why Moore's career goal scoring record is so shocking.

[nonc]

^ agreed on Defoe.

I find that lately, I'm looking forward to the 60-70th minute when Gilberto tends to get his minutes. The team generally looks more threatening with him.

It's very noticeable how much TFC dominates and presses once Gilberto appears.

[Shakes McQueen]

I always thought Gilberto and Defoe looked pretty dangerous together, earlier in the season. They should give more time to that pairing.

[Cashcleaner]

I think you have to give him a full season, no question. The team is strong enough that you finally have the luxury of being patient with players.

That's not a bad argument, for sure. We don't have any looming storm clouds of impending doom like previous years, though perhaps more than previously the expectation of playoffs is somewhat greater.

Molinaro had a note yesterday quoting Bez saying other teams have shown interest in Gilberto.

He's gone.

Gilberto won't result in a single renewal or new SSH. He has to go given what he costs. They need the $$ and the DP slot for a second half booster shot .

This goes back to the question of value. If Gilberto wasn't taking up a DP slot, cost us a 3 million transfer fee, and drawing a salary of 1.2 million this year; we could probably overlook the lack of scoring and be happy with his supporting role thus far. But the dynamic gets changed the larger the investment, and we have invested rather heavily in him.

I think this is why I'm trying to be fundamentally patient with Gilberto right now, despite the prolonged scoring slump. He's not utterly clueless out there, and he's clearly a quality footballer - he just hasn't figured things out for our MLS team yet. But if he finds his touch, guys like he and Bradley will be a titanium backbone for this team for years.

Defoe was a good acquisition to spin things around quickly, and I'm hopeful we can get three good seasons out of him (I don't expect anything beyond that), but he's now, not a future plan.

Defoe is the one player that we can all seem to agree on. He rarely has an off-night and is a fairly consistent offense threat. He's currently in 4th place for goalscoring in the league - and that's behind 3 other players who have at least three more games under their belts. So far, he's been worth every penny.

[trane]

His use, lack of use, of Gilberto is one of my big questions about Nelsen. I understand that he likes wife play, and hence his use of a relatively standard 4-4-2 with wingers (jackson), but we seem rather predictable. We look much more threatening with Gilberto.