Nope, I was expecting an exciting new prospect who knew where the goal was and would be a cut above the rest of the MLS level players.Originally Posted by molenshtain
Nope, I was expecting an exciting new prospect who knew where the goal was and would be a cut above the rest of the MLS level players.
1. They aren't avoiding playing in Brazil are they though?
2. Gilberto isn't an elite level player
3. Half of Brazils Toulon tournament squad still play in Brazil. They are elite level/potential to be elite level talent in their early 20's.
EXACTLY
I noticed ExiledRed ignored this part. Seems to be a theme.
LOL I write for a living. It's about the only thing I do well, though, so there is that.
Is he worth $1.1M a season?
Jloome, just an FYI
He has scored 23 goals in 71 Serie A games.Still works out to 1 goal every 3 league games.Having said that, the overall league there is better. He scored about 1-in-3 over his career in Brazil, but much of that was at lower-level teams in the regional tournaments.
Could be, it was always a gamble. Right now it doesn't look like it...
With his pedigree he fits the type/profile of SA player MLS sides should be looking at.
That's true. It was consistent, anyway. But most of his good goals can be found online and you'll see, very few of them are scrambling in the box, or taking a through ball playing off the shoulder. The vast majority are back-post taps and really nice shots. I think he's playing too high up the pitch; I don't support moving him to the midfield, but he should either play in the hole or wide in a 433. It suits his game.
I'll also note that the Brazilian press reported Internacional sources as saying they were "surprised" that MLS had offered so much for him.
I just thought, he creates so many opportunities, eventually he will start finishing, but that was 5-6 games ago, and nothing has happened yet. I hope that he proves me wrong, but at some point SOON, I cannot wait anymore.
My problem he has that Inzaghi feel to be in the right place at the right time, but GOOD god how many of these can you miss.
Yup, ive seen em. His assist for Daimao in the Audi Cup against AC Milan sticks out for me. He looked very good down the right hand side. He likes a pot shot from around the 18 too, like DeRo on Wed.
^ But it is frustrating he has all the moves of a great CF, and I mean great, but again finishing has to be there.
Right now, he is making Chad Barrett's tenure with us look good.
What seems to be a theme is blind faith in unknown quantities and a lack of understanding of Brazilian style football compared with the rest of the world.
Brazilian 'samba' football is all about running rings around your opponent, pressing, pressuring and relentlessly attacking. It is about creative, free flowing play.
We dont do that. Gilberto is lost here.
Saying that, I would keep him if we could bring the rest of his old team and their coach over here and watch them play in our colours instead.
I don't know that Nelsen will ever play a 4-3-3. He played in MLS 1.0, and I suspect he has yet to gain faith that we could have two teams (classic thinking) of players who could handle it.
But we could certainly play him behind Defoe as a trailer, or as a false nine. We could also have him play as a high 10, and have the wide players with their strong foot on the inside, so that he's got a few yards when he's trailing into the box.
The players hated Preki. They appear to feel exactly the opposite about Nelsen
Man, that guy was the most frustrating player in team history, I think. He worked so hard and he found so much space; I think he was second in shots to DeRo the entire time he was here. But he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.
He's doing quite well this year as a supersub for Seattle; has two game-winners, I think. But they had to pull him the other day again when he started because of leg cramps, the same problem he had with us. Probably a sodium deficiency or something.
I despised that they paid so much for him that they had to put Dichio on the bench and let him fool around on the field week after week. Its still pissing me off.
To be fair on poor Chad, his workrate has earned him a spot in the top 50 scorers of MLS
At least with that guy, you knew he'd get one every now and then, and it would probably be a cracker.
I don't really care to assess the relative strengths or weakneeses of Brazil's first division vs MLS. Who cares?
Brazilian soccer development of players is crazy and impossible to generalize. 90% of their players are exported, but most are journeymen, playing out the string in Iceland and Estonia. Camilo was playing in effing Malta and came in here and led the league in scoring. Denilson was a DP and spit the bit. There is no pattern.
Gilberto has had a third of a season. That is all you get in life. The transfer fee was wasted. He's done, like it or not.
Last edited by ensco; 05-29-2014 at 09:31 PM.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
Yeah I agree. I follow just enough brasileiro to get a feel of that kind of stuff and people should keep in mind we threw down our money on a speculative asset rather than a sure thing. We bought a striker who was drifting until he had one hot season.
Otherwise a lot of the observations here about the Brazilian game, to me at least, seem relatively misguided.
Thats it really.
Your best employee has a three month slump, seems out of sorts and underperforming. You give him (or her) a vacation.
The temp on probation does that and he's (or she's) gone.
Last edited by ExiledRed; 05-29-2014 at 10:31 PM. Reason: #yesallwomen
One thing that's slowly happening in MLS is that up and coming SA players look to MLS for bigger pay and steady paycheques that won't bounce. Even 5 yrs ago guys like Gilberto, Valeri, Chara, etc would ply their trade in lower tier 1 Euro or tier 2 leagues, hoping to catch on with bigger Euro teams (and bigger paycheques) later on.
I suspect Gilberto would have ended up in some minor team in Germany, but TFC happened to offer him bigger money that he couldn't refuse.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Man, this kills me, you see that there is something there, at the same time, the look on Defoe's face in KC when he fed Gilberto and he missed a sitter spoke volumes. He would not have had such a look of disgust on his face had he walked in on his wife cheating on him.
So far, he is a bust.
Will he be forever?
Fucked if I know, but I can think of about 20 guys I would put in his place for that money or less.
12,000 pounds a week, which would get you a competitive championship quality striker in England, a grade-b striker in La Liga and. realistically, should be worth 12-15 goals in MLS.
I think we should sub him for a couple of games; if he comes in fresh in the 65th minute for Defoe with us up, he's got an energy advantage, no pressure due to a lead, and he's better set up to relax when he's finishing.
He might come good yet. I don't believe it's a write-off yet; other strikers have had much drier spells and still done well.
This certainly rings true. I follow Brazilian soccer a fair bit, and how many players over the years have had brief, really productive spells like Gilberto did with Portuguesa, only then to never be heard of again....or who then finished their careers in Kazakhstan. I certainly hope Gilberto doesn't prove to be yet another of those, but with each passing week, you have to wonder. I like a lot of what he does, but the fact remains, he was brought here to score goals. I'm still hoping he'll come good though.
Last edited by tfcleeds; 05-30-2014 at 06:15 AM.
Unless they are sleeping with the boss...drama....
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Kurt Larson will be mentioning #beardsforgilberto in the Sun tomorrow!
have you been taking daily pics of your beard and update on twitter yet? lol
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Following with interest...
I think that my reasoning surrounding Gilberto is less a Brazil vs MLS discussion or a patience in view of his potential and the time it takes SA players to adjust to MLS.
My reasoning is based on MLS timelines and TFC history. The present collective agreement says that if a player is on your roster July 1st - he is to be paid for the remainder of the season. So there are players who might be dropped by TFC or made available to TFC. Due to the World Cup break, TFC have only three MLS games and one V Cup game between today and July 1. I suspect this does not apply directly to Gilberto, I would expect as designated player he has guarantees - but other teams might be creating room...
If Gilberto scores two goals in the next four games - he buys time to prove himself.
If Gilberto stays scoreless and the summer transfer window opens and Tim B has the chance to bring in somebody to fill the International roster spot that belonged to Cesar - perhaps another loan, what kind of playing time is Gilberto going to get over the summer? Trading Gilberto would be such a huge temptation, a designated player who sits on the bench is not going to be selling many tickets or inspiring season ticket renewals or forcing construction of luxury boxes at BMO 2.0.
I think that the flop question is a provocative one. It might be clearer to say "on thin ice". Gilberto has to find his mojo soon. It is only my hunch that says he won't and other scenarios will be forced upon him. It has nothing to do with his skill and potential, more to do with his luck and both MLSE and MLS realities.
The confusion is your interpretation of 'elite'. To be an elite MLS player you do not need to be world class. Take a look at Angel, Blanco, GBS, Soborio, Ferreira, etc. I'll even toss Landy in there. Not world class players being sought after by world power clubs but in this league they happen to work and these types of players can be elite here. Can Gilberto? Maybe. Who knows?
you dont need time to adjust to score a sitter. The instinct just isn't there. And I've seen him more than once try to boss guys on the field. hopefully its a language thing
He has all the right tools, perhaps he just isnt the poaching striker TFC was shopping for
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