You can get at a lot of this stuff on the MLS site - see the NY game here:Originally Posted by Canary10
http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/mat...bulls/boxscore (scroll down for the ability to drill in on player stats).
In the NYRB game, from a stats perspective- he didn't look to good.
1 shot - off target from inside the 6 yard box
7 passes total - 4 completed passes, 3 unsuccessful
1 tackle, 2 interception, 2 recoveries
1 unsuccessful dribble
1 foul won
I was trying to look at the game stats but I keep getting page errors. Strange. That link worked though. Thanks.
Here are is stats from WhoScored http://www.whoscored.com/Players/101698
I really hate the whole DP concept in these debates. This magically stupid MLS label automatically puts all these expectations, as opposed to if he was just a player making X money.
Anyways, I know what his role is and how he's supposed to score. I also know, players of HIGHER caliber and HIGHER wages have had longer stretches to break things into play in this league, as well as others.
We're a dysfunctional franchise trying to become something proper, with a (basically) rookie coach, a team of brand new faces (thus no existing chemistry), he doesn't speak English, no pre-season to acclimatize, arrived with an injury, couldn't even play in the first two matches, our wingers couldn't serve a beer (or stay healthy, or consistent...our central Mids have been a bit the same).........can I continue? I don't want to play the excuse card here, but holy fuck why is the entire scenario so oblivious to some people? 7 league matches and we're calling for his head because he's a magical mickey mouse "DP"? Good grief. Under the circumstances, some initial growing pains HAD to be expected, no? Why is the leash so short for him? Is this just butthurtness over Laba? I just don't understand the extreme stance seen throughout the thread against this guy. You'd think he'd diddled all your wives.
Yeah potting goals "IS the important stuff" but my analogy shows that if you're not doing your entire job proper, in the long run, YOU WILL FAIL. If you do things proper, in the long run, you will find your success. Stats and probability. He's been within inches of a handful of goals, we've all seen that. If he keeps his confidence up and doing the right things, the goals WILL come. Numbers don't lie.
FWIW, he didn't score until the 9th league match of Portuguesa's 2013 season, on a PK. Didn't score from the run of play until the 14th league match. 10 matches later he had 10 more goals. Some scorers are streaky, so be it. Our consistent scorer is Defoe, that's why we pay him 6X the money.
You guys have an argument at season's end if there's little or nothing to show for his season. After 7 league matches? LOL please.
obviously, you will only see what you want to see in any other stats also, but i will offer this ... in 7 MLS games, gilberto has suffered more fouls (13) than any other TFC player --- to me that suggests he is working hard and causing a lot of trouble for defenders, and yet he also leads the team in shots taken (18), obviously none have hit the back of the net yet ... but he is creating chances and if other teams are keying on him, it seems they see the potential for danger that he can create.
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we clearly have 2 camps here --- those who view the success of our young brazilian striker based on a single metric only, goals scored, and consider him a flop after just a handful of games with no goals scored ... and those who view his play from a broader perspective and see quality and the potential of a bright MLS future for him on our team.
so, let's just call him a flop, if that will appease the people howling at him. no goals in 7 MLS games - flop. no goals in 2 ACC games - flop flop. gilberto is a clearly a flop, a truly unmitigated disaster of a signing ... until he starts scoring, of course, and then the hounds here can start chasing their next target.
a couple things are clear, gilberto is not going anywhere and he is not giving up, so can we please have a little patience and not run this kid outta town
This is the main reason I can't take part of board topics anymore, and reserve my post for funny subjects.
He isn't doing his entire job properly. Part of his job is to score goals. So you are right, he is failing at his job.
The argument is on the table right now, not at seasons end when it's too late. Whenever we drop points due to lack of scoring the first two guys who you look to are the strikers. If they are not scoring, then there is a problem that needs fixing.
I realize people don't like when the DP tag set expectations on a player - but the reality is that in professional sports - not just in MLS - when you pay a high price tag for a player, it's because you expect them to deliver right away. Not in months or years down the road.
If you want to talk stats - When you are the 10th highest paid player in the league and you are no where near that in any stats category in the league, then you have to start questioning the value of that player. Not even talking about goals - let's talk assist, passing percentage, tackles, ball possession, Shots on Goal percentage.....he is nowhere to be found within the top 10 of any stats in the league.
All of the "Gilberto can do no wrong" people on this board need to realize there are other options to fixing the problem that don't include dropping the player at the first available transfer window. Use him as a sub so that he is the sharpest player on the pitch for 25-30 minutes and hope he can pot a goal in with that advantage. Change up the system - if he isn't a pure striker and just does everything else so well, play him behind Defoe and play to his strengths.
To sit there and say - nothing is wrong, he'll come around - is wrong! Something is wrong in his game and it needs to change soon.
I say no, because he's hustling and we're still getting goals. He's been so close that it's only a matter of luck (hitting the post as often as he does is a sign of unhappy soccer gods, not skill IMO)
I'm happy with his work rate - the goals will come.
he's not Mista, or Ali Gerba, or late career Cunningham, or Lombardo (poor kid had the weight of the club thrust on his shoulders)...
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hahaha, I bet if we cut him from the contract the guys moaning about him being a flop would be the first ones complaining about the revolving door.
Just saying sometimes this place is total crap for these types of arguments. Yes the DP tag carries a lot but it was a risk and bringing in a young unproven goal scorer was a gamble. I sincerly hope he gets going because if he does the regular offence would be very welcome.
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Twitter: @RPBPhil
Not me.
The expensive guys, and the young guys, they turn over every year. They always have in this league, and they always will.
You need a core of domestics that are average or a little better, and have a bit of versatility. THOSE are the guys you have to find, and you don't turn them over. That's what made me insane about losing Silva (and Cronin before him). It's why I like the Warner deal.
Just to be ridiculously clear: the impending summer window is a massive consideration, it's when the best quality is available. "Giving up" on Gilberto isn't just about a lack of patience, it's about the fact that the options to replace him are far better in July than they are in December.
Last edited by ensco; 05-22-2014 at 11:24 AM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Who, in theory, is out there to replace him in July?
And if so aren't you falling into the same cycle of giving a new player time to settle in be they a European vet coming off a full season or another young prospect.
I will answer this the way Tim Leiweke would: someone who sells a lot more tickets.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
I know Gilberto will score.
My beard knows. My beard is afraid.
#beardsforgilberto
Everybody agrees that losing Cronin was an absolute disaster. He would be so useful right now, and would have been every year since he was gone.
Fuck you Preki.
Someone else would have traded him after anyway.
I don't believe, definitely for me, but truly don't think for his supporters as well, that we think "Gilberto can do no wrong." We're just as miffed he's not scored goals as anyone else. We simply manage to look at the value he does off the ball, the things he does well, oh and of course, we understand what a proper sample size is for this type of evaluation. 7 league matches under these circumstances, absolutely is not a proper sample size IMO.
I also don't think I've said "nothing is wrong" at any point, if I did I'm mistaken.
Had his posts and very near misses, been goals, he'd be leading our team by 1 or 2. He's close because he's doing positive and useful things on the pitch. He's not scored because he's been a bit unlucky IMO, as opposed to potting a few goals luckily while not doing the right things, that would be unsettling to me. I see reason to believe things will come around for him, I don't see reason to think this will carry on forever as is.
Time will tell if my analysis is correct, that's he's simply not been lucky and the goals happen. Or if your thoughts are correct, the goals won't come because there's something wrong with him and or his game.
For now though, definitive statements like "he's a flop," and to be entirely fair, "nothing is wrong," are comical at this point.
LAST POST ON THIS. I was asking him to clarify his point. That is it. No more no less. But I will tell you this clearly I find this very annoying. Proverbial tempest in a teapot. (small tempest but an annoying one) Please stop, as I have a hard time not responding, but I will not.
ENSCO- I take that as a compliment.
Ryan I agree, with you saying that nothing is wrong is wrong, but I do not thing that most of those that see the quality in Gilberto are saying that.
Take him off that DP contract and on to a regular MLS contract and he can take his sweet ass time scoring.
There is no question he is doing other things well. In the overall scheme of things in his 7 games here the positives have done little to contribute to the offensive output.I don't believe, definitely for me, but truly don't think for his supporters as well, that we think "Gilberto can do no wrong." We're just as miffed he's not scored goals as anyone else. We simply manage to look at the value he does off the ball, the things he does well, oh and of course, we understand what a proper sample size is for this type of evaluation. 7 league matches under these circumstances, absolutely is not a proper sample size IMO.
I also don't think I've said "nothing is wrong" at any point, if I did I'm mistaken.
Had his posts and very near misses, been goals, he'd be leading our team by 1 or 2. He's close because he's doing positive and useful things on the pitch. He's not scored because he's been a bit unlucky IMO, as opposed to potting a few goals luckily while not doing the right things, that would be unsettling to me. I see reason to believe things will come around for him, I don't see reason to think this will carry on forever as is.
Time will tell if my analysis is correct, that's he's simply not been lucky and the goals happen. Or if your thoughts are correct, the goals won't come because there's something wrong with him and or his game.
For now though, definitive statements like "he's a flop," and to be entirely fair, "nothing is wrong," are comical at this point.
I could care less if he scored no goals all season but lead the league, or at this point the team, in assists. At least then his efforts would for something.
I'm not saying the guy is useless, but do we really need him to drop back to the defensive line and retrieve balls? Or track across the pitch to his opposite side behind the winger to retrieve a ball from a wing back - these are not normal things a striker does - these are desperate things strikers do to try and make an impact on the pitch when they/the team is not scoring.
Last edited by jabbronies; 05-22-2014 at 08:50 PM.
He needs more time. He reminds me of Lewandowski's first season at Dortmund. You could see the potential but it just wasn't clicking until he scored a couple and gained confidence.
Exactly. No one has started a thread about DeRo being a flop. Why? Because he ain't a DP.
There's loads of players out there to replace Gilberto. It's just, do they want to come to the MLS?
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If he still isn't scoring by the transfer window, then obviously it may be time to look at a change. Until then, I think he's doing the right things, and has just been unfortunate. He scores one or two of his near-misses, and the conversation around him is completely different right now, precisely because he has been pretty great otherwise.
Brazilian nets aren't any bigger than MLS nets. I'm confident he will figure it out.
And if he doesn't, then obviously we can't afford to keep around a striker that doesn't strike indefinitely.
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
I object to this sometimes oversimplified and polarized view of 2 camps: Defend Gilli at all costs even if he hasn't scored yet, or dump him as he is paid to score and he hasn't scored yet. I think a number of us fall somewhere in between. My view is he has made some positive contributions to the team thus far and is on the right trajectory even though he hasn't scored a goal yet. At the same time, I also feel that there are valid concerns re his lack of goal scoring production.......and if he doesn't start scoring some goals by later on this summer this should be a major concern.
I agree, You can't replace him in July transfer window. At that point you are starting from scratch and not making any progress. What's to say we don't get Mista Pt 2 in the next guy
This right here.
After 10 games......I'm disappointed, but I wouldn't consider anyone a flop till they finish at least one season
Just for fun.. Only goal scorers this year that are still on the roster are... Defoe, Bradley, Jackson.
Our opponent this week SKC, has 7 scorers thus far.
Gilberto isn't the only one struggling.
Ahhh the internet.
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