I am all for that kind of player at TFC, I think good ones can do very well, and make the entire team better.Originally Posted by jloome
I am all for that kind of player at TFC, I think good ones can do very well, and make the entire team better.
Nope. $3 million transfer fee plus a $1.2 million annual salary means you should be good to go out of the box. You want the big bucks then you better earn it, and strikers earn it by scoring goals. There are plenty of players in MLS who can pressure a defense that would've come to TFC for half of Gilberto's salary (anyone remember Dike?). Hell I wish Gilberto all the best, but let's not mollycoddle the guy. How long did we do that with DeGuzman before we finally threw that fish back in the water?
I take it you would have let Dempsey go last season then? And Beckham when he started? And Koevs? What you are asking for does not happen in this league. The amount of DP's who have come in and had an instant impact that maintained itself over a couple of seasons sits right now at 1 - Robbie Keane. Nobody else has done it. Defoe has a chance to get to that status. After his efforts on Saturday, I cut Gilberto a lot of slack. Heck, given our midfield without Bradley and still wondering if Warner can be a starter for us, I cut all our forwards a lot of slack.
Last edited by OgtheDim; 06-04-2014 at 09:54 PM.
Dike doesn't count because he plays a handful of games a season and otherwise sits on a physio table. He comes with a price tag that says "I'll never be healthy", no different than Nelson Rivas on Montreal.
Fact is: we spent the money, it's gone. Sometimes these guys have longer adjustment periods and boomerang back around. Urruti looked to be just about as useless as Gilberto does currently when he suited up for us last season. Of course sometimes they never amount to anything.
Might as well give it a shot, it's not like we have anybody besides Defoe who deserves that spot up top.
Coming out of the box hot is the exception, not the rule in ANY league.
Defoe is not the norm.
Suarez is not the norm.
These are the outliers.
That said, F*(K I JUST WANT HIM TO SCORE!!!!!!
WE DID IT!
I get your point about the money, but I think he's shown enough quality to give him a bit more time.
Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy
So what you are saying that Montreal should have written Di Vaio off in his first year when he took 8 games to score his first goal and only scored something like 5 in his first season? Who would have carried them to the playoffs with 20 goals the next year if they had?
gilberto is not the problem.
its the passing %, lack of creativity in mid, rey shitting the bed, and TFC hitting the post more than i have ever seen before (maybe its a pickup the rebound thing)
Last edited by C.Ronaldo; 06-05-2014 at 10:03 AM.
His finishing is absolutely a problem. That's not on passing or anything else.
Where are people now on my over/under of 5 goals?
Still taking the over.
Still 24 games left in the season.
I'll admit defeat if he is still at zero in August.
it is a problem.
but not the problem.
those will come with a year of MLS under his belt, and an easy sitter or PK
can we send Gilberto to Willmington for some confidence building
Gilberto is a massive flop. His wage to productivity ratio is maybe the worst ever for a TFC player. That's comparing him to some very poor performers.
So far, yes. He's started 8 of 9 and he's had the minutes. My position on this is, the transfer money's been spent, the player's here and he's getting paid until at least the end of this season (unless we somehow manage to unload him in a trade or something), so why not give him the chance to work it out? Sure, we've seen some high-priced flops, but we've also seen players come in and, once they've had a season under their belts to settle in, become productive. Unfortunately for us, it's often after we've already ditched them.
Is Gilberto a guy who will never come good in MLS, or is he a guy who is slow to adapt? That's the key question for me. I don't really care about the money; that's Tim B's job.
Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy
Just some numbers to throw into the mix:
Gilberto - Shots: 21 SOG: 5 G: 0 A: 2 Mins: 659
Defoe - Shots: 19 SOG: 10 G: 6 A: 1 Mins: 602
Jackson - Shots: 12 SOG: 4 G: 1 A: 0 Mins: 593
DeRo - Shots: 11 SOG: 5 G: 0 A: 0 Mins: 276
You gotta get shots on goal in order to score.
(I threw in Jackson just because of how many shots he has, even though he's not a forward.)
Gilberto needs to feel the pressure, but I am rooting for him to come good. I am still patient, but it won't last forever.
Last edited by Jack; 06-05-2014 at 10:26 AM.
Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy
Right now Bekker has more confidence to load the cannon and let one fly at goal...
Any chance Gilberto gets he should just rattle it - ON GOAL. Don't try to pick a perfect corner from distance, hit the target. Bing the keeper in the face for all I care, one will hopefully go in, and hopefully get this monkey of his back...
"...Money wasn't tight, but it like, it wasn't right..."
?
Sorry Jack, no room for sentiment. He's playing up front with one of the best strikers in MLS and he hasn't produced. This isn't some kind of charity where we help someone through difficulties. He's being paid loads of money to do a job and he's not performing. He's overpaid and over-rated. Luke Moore has come in and he's looking twice the player Gilberto is already.
To be fair for Bekker it isn't Confidence I don't think. It's arrogance. If he had Confidence he could turn and pass the ball to someone other than a defender.
With Gilberto I think he thought the league would be easier to score in, combined with not the best service, pressure, likely his first cold weather season, and as time goes on the frustrations of not scoring.. he just needs to take the break, calm down a bit.. relax and play. Once the weather is better for him (and horridly uncomfortable to me) if he has calmed.. and we can get some service to him.. he'll be fine.
Last edited by Kaz; 06-05-2014 at 01:15 PM.
This isn't about sentiment.
Its about reality of how long it takes for a young, non-English speaking striker to bed in.
Heck, by your criteria, LAG should have cut Beckham.
I don't mind a little arrogance in a player actually... Kind of like a top-striker, they're always a little selfish...
Either way, I want to see Gilberto have a go much more - I think he's got the skills, and I think he'll get there...
"...Money wasn't tight, but it like, it wasn't right..."
He's 25 and has played 146 league games for his clubs. Not that young or inexperienced.
I'd love him to turn it round, I'm just not sure if he will.
It's not sentiment or charity. With the money they've spent on the guy, I'd want to be very sure of him being a flop before unloading him. As I said, the money's spent, so why not give the guy enough time to either come good, or prove beyond all doubt that he's a flop? At this point, he's still very much in what many consider to be a settling-in stage in MLS. He's a relatively experienced player who has always played in Brazil. Many players take at least half a season, if not more, to come good in MLS.
Toronto FC baby...best team everrrrrrrrrr -Jozy
Listen he has not scored, but clearly he has contributed and big time.
Why is that very few people see it this way?
Yes, he has not scored yet. But hes setup goals and setup plays that lead to goals. Hes done really well off and on the ball, except for putting it in the net. He is in those high scoring areas as a threat, he still draws defenders and is able to pick open other players that are forward. Hes done well.
He will score. His time will come. Hopefully this saturday.
Beckham was a midfielder who was never considered a prolific goal scorer and was never brought in on the notion that he would provide such offensive capabilities.
I have changed my tune.
He gets 10 more games from me. I want to see 2-3 goals that he created (ones like Moore got against NY don't count), and keeping making plays like he did last Saturday.
I think he will do it.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
I wouldn't say big time.
He had two good games - His first match in Toronto and the last MLS game that he subbed in.
If he continues to play like that - people won't rag on him as much, but other than those two games he hasn't produced much of anything.
He will warm up...hasn't play in the summer hot weather like he is used to.
Just curious, but how would you rate Gilberto assuming he was signed as a DP midfielder? How does he rate in those statistical categories?
He was crap at what he was supposed to do, at first.
Apart from shirt sales.
I've seen a few people saying something similar. So because he's not scoring, he's a midfielder? I'm not singling you out - I've seen a lot of twitter comments like that, and they're starting to creep on the board as well.
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