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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by burlington Red View Post
    I said it in the other thread but will say it here too. Gilberto is neither a target man or a "number 10". He isn't big enough or strong enough to play target man in this league, nor does he have the ability to drop deep, probe and pick up the ball and play through balls to his strike partner in a number 10 role.
    Some might say he played a through ball to Defoe v Vancouver, but it's not enough in the amount of games he has played. He has no chemistry with Defoe. Defoe is actually dropping deep and playing through balls to him as he did V SKC, when Gilberto couldn't even hold his run and was caught offside.
    Not saying the guy is weak, but if you want to fulfil Defoe's potential, I think he needs a more compatible strike partner. Luke Moore ain't no super striker, but it's plain to see that he links up much more seemlessly than Gilberto ,aNd I am no Moore fan btw having grown up watching him play week in week out in UK.
    I do not disagree that he is not a true 10 nor a traditional target man, CF, but he has some skills of both, that is why a 4-3-2-1 would suite him the CF, is not a real targetman, and play is not through the air, Milan played with Inzaghi, Sheva, Kaka, Pato, in that role, Gilberto would be great, from what I have seen.

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by trane View Post
    I do not disagree that he is not a true 10 nor a traditional target man, CF, but he has some skills of both, that is why a 4-3-2-1 would suite him the CF, is not a real targetman, and play is not through the air, Milan played with Inzaghi, Sheva, Kaka, Pato, in that role, Gilberto would be great, from what I have seen.
    He mostly played as a wide forward in Brazil until last year, when they moved him up top alone to fill in for injuries. He's a good player, even if he's not finishing right now. Once he knew tendencies from the forwards, he'd probably be a very dangerous number 10. Helps that he has a good shot, too.

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    At this point it looks like his confidence is shot. Shut him down till after the WC break or send him to Wilmington.

    Goal scoring is a funny business. Luke Moore hadn't scored in a pro game for over a year until the fluke goal against New York...
    I can only assume you are being sarcastic here re: Wilmington cos that make no sense. That'll only kill his confidence even more at this point.

    As i said before, Bring him on as a sub. See how he deals with that. Maybe he is a "super sub" type of player. Some guys can only shine coming in late and throwing the other team off.

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I would like if we played the daimond and put him in the hole(AM) atleast that way you could start Moore with Gilberto still playing.

    Put in Warner for cleanup duty and figure something out with the wings, then drop ORR to CB next game.
    I think that's a really good idea. Have Jackson and Osorio on the outside. Plus it gets Rey off the field.

  5. #275
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    Another frustrating outing, particularly the needless offside.

    I like the idea of using him as a sub for a match or two. Stick Moore out there for 60 minutes and see if Gilberto can get his confidence back against some tired legs.

    Don't understand how anyone can complain about subbing Henry on for Gilberto. We needed 4 at the back and 4 in the middle, it was either him or Hall, Morgan or Dero. Sure Henry cost us a goal, but Orr took one back playing further up the field.

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinUtd View Post
    Another frustrating outing, particularly the needless offside.

    I like the idea of using him as a sub for a match or two. Stick Moore out there for 60 minutes and see if Gilberto can get his confidence back against some tired legs.

    Don't understand how anyone can complain about subbing Henry on for Gilberto. We needed 4 at the back and 4 in the middle, it was either him or Hall, Morgan or Dero. Sure Henry cost us a goal, but Orr took one back playing further up the field.
    Henry's penchant for making stupid mistakes should be a ticket out of the city, not another chance to showcase it in the pitch. Gilberto reminds me of Mista. Tons of talent coupled with no confidence. Opposite from Bekker, tons of confidence but no skill.

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFC8 View Post
    I think that's a really good idea. Have Jackson and Osorio on the outside. Plus it gets Rey off the field.
    Rey is one of those players who, if you dump too soon, will come back to haunt us later. Unlike Henry, Reys mistakes don't cost us penalties. Hebwill get better.

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonso View Post
    I don't think the team is playing to the strengths of either Defoe or Gilberto. That is on Nelsen.

    That being said, I don't want anyone dumped or fired. I want to see improvements and learning.

    I also don't like the style we are playing, but we are getting points (more than ever before in our history) so what the fuck do I know?

    Boring soccer wins after all?

    A couple of potent finishers and park the bus has won many a game for teams.
    I agree. In Nelsen's system, if you can call it one, has the defenders hoofing the ball every chance they get. He sees the game from the perspective of a defender who spent years without taking a shot on goal. A little more possession would give the team a chance to develop confidence on the attack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 69Chevy396 View Post
    Rey is one of those players who, if you dump too soon, will come back to haunt us later. Unlike Henry, Reys mistakes don't cost us penalties. Hebwill get better.
    Most ex TFC players haunt us anyways lol, but i don't see any evidence that Rey will get better....infact as the season's progressed i feel like he's gone backwards. He would be a great sub to bring on if we need a goal though.

  10. #280
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    The non English speaking players will always have a harder time adjusting to systems. Give them both time to know what others around them want. There is no translator on the field.

  11. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    He mostly played as a wide forward in Brazil until last year, when they moved him up top alone to fill in for injuries. He's a good player, even if he's not finishing right now. Once he knew tendencies from the forwards, he'd probably be a very dangerous number 10. Helps that he has a good shot, too.
    Trane and JLoome are in the sweetspot on this.

  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69Chevy396 View Post
    I agree. In Nelsen's system, if you can call it one, has the defenders hoofing the ball every chance they get. He sees the game from the perspective of a defender who spent years without taking a shot on goal. A little more possession would give the team a chance to develop confidence on the attack.
    You guys are watching a different team than I am. In most games, they have tried to move the ball on the ground - but have failed. There may be a talking point there - the passes from Becker, and others, to no one, for example - but it isn't "hoof ball"
    Last edited by MightyDM; 05-29-2014 at 09:40 PM.

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69Chevy396 View Post
    Henry's penchant for making stupid mistakes should be a ticket out of the city, not another chance to showcase it in the pitch. Gilberto reminds me of Mista. Tons of talent coupled with no confidence. Opposite from Bekker, tons of confidence but no skill.
    I don't exactly see Bekker exuding any confidence, he plays like a sissy who avoids any contact and gives up the ball if he is so much as breathed on.

    But I agree with your point that Gilberto is low on confidence. However lets not forget Mista came here already half retired at the time
    Last edited by Richard; 05-24-2014 at 11:51 PM.

  14. #284
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    Does anyone think Gilberto might be having difficulty with the way the game is refereed here? Listening to Tim Vickery, he talks about how easily fouls are called in the Brazilian league. He cites that Brazilian clubs are doing poorer in the Copa Libertadores because they are use to more fouls being called in their favour but are not getting them.

  15. #285
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    The pic in the in-season thread has to be evidence of Plan B.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  16. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatest Ripoff View Post
    Does anyone think Gilberto might be having difficulty with the way the game is refereed here? Listening to Tim Vickery, he talks about how easily fouls are called in the Brazilian league. He cites that Brazilian clubs are doing poorer in the Copa Libertadores because they are use to more fouls being called in their favour but are not getting them.
    I watch a fair amount of the football down there. Midfield is less contested but the forwards-defenders mix it up a fair amout and their athletic stock is far superior to ours.

    He seems to be okay with contact. The main issue I see is that we give our forwards very little support and that's not something he's prepared to deal with (nor are most guys in this league).

    Mentally, he's dug himself a rut as well I'm sure. He just needs a goal, before he Pablo Vitti's himself and has to leave before he can regain his confidence.

  17. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by trane View Post
    ^ Last night really led me to believe that we need a correction in the system, that not only upfront that in the mid, we could get more with a better system.
    I agree Trane with you as usual. We need to change our system ASAP

  18. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by trane View Post
    I do not disagree that he is not a true 10 nor a traditional target man, CF, but he has some skills of both, that is why a 4-3-2-1 would suite him the CF, is not a real targetman, and play is not through the air, Milan played with Inzaghi, Sheva, Kaka, Pato, in that role, Gilberto would be great, from what I have seen.
    This could be it right here. Although didn't they play a 4-3-1-2
    That bolded is where Kaka played?

    If he keeps playing the way he is now, wether it be cos of tactics or lack of ability to adjust to the league, then there is no reason for him to be here.
    I personally would rather see a change in formation than see our 3rd DP slot used for a "Super Sub"

    With that being said - How does everyone else fit into this new system that accommodates for 1 player
    Last edited by jabbronies; 05-26-2014 at 10:43 PM.

  19. #289
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    ^ That's the other one. But under Ancelotti they played as much/more 4-3-2-1. The attacking triangle is manned by three similar players, the front guy usually just being a bit more physical then the other two.

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    If it wasn't for the size of the investment in the player, there would be SCREAMING on this board for this player to sit.

    I would like to see Moore Saturday. I might be curious to see Gilberto at AM, as Exiled suggested in the Montreal game thread.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  21. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    If it wasn't for the size of the investment in the player, there would be SCREAMING on this board for this player to sit.
    I think his previous pedigree has more to do with it, than his paycheck. I would hope people don't want to play a player, simply because he cost a bunch of money.
    “Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens

  22. #292
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    I am willing to tag Gilberto with the "flop" tag. He was brought in as a designated player, a proven product. It is not a question of adjustment and potential. The game last night against Montreal has me wondering if Gilberto will ever score in a TFC uniform. Montreal has a goals against total of 22, tied for second worst in MLS this year.
    I suspect that Gilberto has very little time left as the regular starter for Toronto. He needs to start scoring before July 1. Cesar heading back to QPR after the World Cup will open up an International spot on the roster. The summer transfer window or out of contract players will be just too tempting for TFC. Maybe time on the bench and coming on as a substitute will help Gilberto. Perhaps the lack of production from Rey will save Gilberto, Rey more likely to be traded or sacrificed to make way for a new player....

  23. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Still Kicking View Post
    I am willing to tag Gilberto with the "flop" tag. He was brought in as a designated player, a proven product. It is not a question of adjustment and potential. The game last night against Montreal has me wondering if Gilberto will ever score in a TFC uniform. Montreal has a goals against total of 22, tied for second worst in MLS this year.
    I suspect that Gilberto has very little time left as the regular starter for Toronto. He needs to start scoring before July 1. Cesar heading back to QPR after the World Cup will open up an International spot on the roster. The summer transfer window or out of contract players will be just too tempting for TFC. Maybe time on the bench and coming on as a substitute will help Gilberto. Perhaps the lack of production from Rey will save Gilberto, Rey more likely to be traded or sacrificed to make way for a new player....
    rey + allocatoin for issey LOL

  24. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post
    rey + allocatoin for issey LOL

    YeEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

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    Quote Originally Posted by Still Kicking View Post
    I am willing to tag Gilberto with the "flop" tag. He was brought in as a designated player, a proven product. It is not a question of adjustment and potential. The game last night against Montreal has me wondering if Gilberto will ever score in a TFC uniform. Montreal has a goals against total of 22, tied for second worst in MLS this year.
    I suspect that Gilberto has very little time left as the regular starter for Toronto. He needs to start scoring before July 1. Cesar heading back to QPR after the World Cup will open up an International spot on the roster. The summer transfer window or out of contract players will be just too tempting for TFC. Maybe time on the bench and coming on as a substitute will help Gilberto. Perhaps the lack of production from Rey will save Gilberto, Rey more likely to be traded or sacrificed to make way for a new player....
    For reference:

    Marco Di Vaio was brought into the impact as a DP proven product (as he should be with his history). I took him 8 games to score his first goal. He only scored 5 in 17 in his first season and was considered by many to be a flop DP that year. In his second year delivered like a DP and scored 20 in 33 and dragged them to the playoffs.

    Dempsy also took some time to start making an impact in the league as well.

    Both players come with a lot more experience and higher pedigree than Gilberto. If they did not light the league afire immediately - is it fair to expect Gilberto to?

    Your second point about his time being limited is interesting. I won't touch on it from a Football perspective, but I wonder if it is true, regardless of performances. This team made a big deal about signing him, folks have talked extensively about TFC is different now with this new management and how we don't just throw players out without giving them a chance. How we don't "Urutti" players anymore - sign them then move them off right away.

    It will be interesting in this regard to see how it pans out...

  26. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    For reference:

    Marco Di Vaio was brought into the impact as a DP proven product (as he should be with his history). I took him 8 games to score his first goal. He only scored 5 in 17 in his first season and was considered by many to be a flop DP that year. In his second year delivered like a DP and scored 20 in 33 and dragged them to the playoffs.

    Dempsy also took some time to start making an impact in the league as well.

    Both players come with a lot more experience and higher pedigree than Gilberto. If they did not light the league afire immediately - is it fair to expect Gilberto to?

    Your second point about his time being limited is interesting. I won't touch on it from a Football perspective, but I wonder if it is true, regardless of performances. This team made a big deal about signing him, folks have talked extensively about TFC is different now with this new management and how we don't just throw players out without giving them a chance. How we don't "Urutti" players anymore - sign them then move them off right away.

    It will be interesting in this regard to see how it pans out...
    I thought this was called "Issey-ing" players?

  27. #297
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    I really don't want another Urruti or Laba, developing SA talent to get used to MLS and/or do well for another MLS team because TFC didn't have patience
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    I thought this was called "Issey-ing" players?
    Let's just call it getting TFC'd

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    I really don't want another Urruti or Laba, developing SA talent to get used to MLS and/or do well for another MLS team because TFC didn't have patience
    Also, you have to think that with every player we bring up from South America and ship off in short order that our appeal to S. American players gets damaged a little further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BuSaPuNk View Post
    Exactly.

    DiVaio, Dempsey, Martins, ect theve all had a hard time adjusting to the leauge but when they found it out they were and are great goal scorers.

    First people complain we give up on players too soon Plata, Cronin, Urruti, but now you want to move a guy 10 games in. Doesn't make sense. Give the guy time. As soon as he gets his first and gets confidence in this leauge he will start scoring in bucket loads.
    Well said!!!

 

 

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