If Nelsen fails here and leaves - it would not suprise me one bit to see him get such a role in the EPL.Originally Posted by speckles
But that is a very different thing than running your own team. And honestly - probably a great move for him to hone his craft learning and mentoring under someone with expeience.
Well, I just rewatched the game and ya, you are probably right. It wasn't too crazy bad and the soccer gods will make all right over the course of the season.
As for the actual quality of the game...
Rewatching our game against RSL, I felt MUCH better afterwards. I don't feel better about this last game, Gilberto looks similar to Braun, makes it into the right places but just can't close the deal.
We will see how everything goes down in the next couple of games, but if Gilberto doesn't open his account... When do you just admit to a mistake?
On the flip side, Bruin didn't score for Dynamo Houston until the playoffs last year, but I think that it is apples and oranges because Bruin at least had a proven track record and wasn't on anything resembling the same salary.
WE DID IT!
I don't think it's time to panic yet.
We've had the good fortune of a great start.
Our roster is better than most in this league.
Things will settle, and as long as Defoe and Bradley play 30 games per year or so over the course of their contracts we'll make waves in this league.
Last edited by Alonso; 05-04-2014 at 09:31 PM.
I'm with you here. Sorry if my initial post came off as snippy BTW (not my intention).
Gilberto looks like he's mentally off his game right now. Snatching at shoots and really desperate to break his goose egg. I'd advise giving him some time, he's got some reasonable qualities and plenty of MLS strikers need 6-12 months to really show you what they are capable of. That being said, we'd probably do him (and the team) a favor by having another strike partner for defoe who can take some minutes off him. The worst thing we could do is put him in a pressure cooker every week where we need him to score. Let someone else take part of the burden and hope that eventually he eases into it. Urruti seems to be coming around in that fashion currently.
I will say this about the state of our team. We have problems, but they are fixable, and Nelsen / Bez deserve some credit to getting it to the point where it stands currently. Nelsen may or may not make it through this next spell, but we aren't any worse off for having him here, which is a nice change from many of our prior coaches who made some really terrible choices.
Moderator
I love the new Onyx kit. Fucking LOVE it! But....I agree with you. It should be used sparingly. Like all good things, you don't want to have it all at once. Tease people with it from time to time.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
This could all be a case of the squad still gelling together fully. Gilberto just needs to work on his finishing and he'll be putting MLS defences to the sword every game. A very poor ball to give away for NE's first goal that's like League of Ireland stuff!Good to see the defence go for the tackles when needed...they just need to start succeeding with them a bit more. Bring on NYRB.
Defoe, Bradley and Cesar are a given. Maybe not the "best" but certainly top 3 at the very least
You lost me on Bloom and Morrow being top 5 defenders and Rey being top MF. If that were true, can we expect All Star selections for the trio? Season ending awards?
They may be improvements over players on the roster in previous seasons but not top amongst their MLS peers.
If the price of a top MLS defender on the trade market is allocation money and or a 2nd round draft pick, wow.
My own feeling is that Defoe looked like he had concrete tied to his legs. He did not look fully match-fit.
I think Nelsen got the subs right. He should have brought in DeRo a lot earlier though. Overall strategy was weak, our defense pushed up too much to be able to handle a very fast counter-attacking team, leaving us exposed.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
TFC are dropping points that they shouldn't be. Now is the time to start being concerned.
We will loose 3 of our main starters - 1 being the lynch pin of the squad - starting this month. We will possibly not see a full squad until August.
If we don't collect 100% points between now and when our WC players leave for Brazil - you can say bye-bye to the playoffs.
Season started in march...It's now May and we still haven't clicked.
Considering it's almost 3 months into the season - What makes you think that once these guys are back in August they will automatically slot in perfectly?
Guarantee we will hear the old "They need time to gel..." excuse right up until September.
About 10 of TFC's first team squad are newly acquired, if 10 players come into a squad it is unreasonable, in my opinion, to expect them to play like a well oiled machine. Even if it is a couple of months into the season.
I think that lack of a pre season without all the players in the squad is what is really showing on this team. That and lack of quality service from the wings.
Teams are going to be all over Gilberto and Defoe down the middle of the ball is put to their feet and they are expected to break down deferders while carrying it. We need speedy wingers that can get dangerous balls in on a consistant basis. Maybe Issey, Rey and Oso will be the guys, but I don't know if they have had the playing time to devlop the knowlege they need.
I do fee Nelsen maybe put too much offense on the field while taking out too much from the mid field and defenders. We lost shape, looked heavy up front but nothing to support the play so NE just had to boot the ball out and it went to feet that had to do a lot of work to get it up there and into an offensive threat. Maybe it would work if they tactic was practiced more, but to me it looked like a hunch that didn't really work.
Road Trips: July 7 2007 Chicago, July 22nd 2007 Columbus, August 11 2007 NY, October 13 2007 LA, March 29 2008 Columbus, May 24th 2008 DC, May 26 2008 Montreal, June 28th 2008 NE, March 7-11-14 2009 Charleston, March 28 2009 Columbus, April 10 2010 New England, May 12 2010 Montreal, April 7 2012 Montreal, March 16 2013 Montreal , June 3 2014 Montreal, March 14 2015 Columbus
Twitter: @RPBPhil
depends on the size of allocation money
Beitashour went to Caps for allocation money and I'd put him in top 3 RB in the league.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
At this point in the season, even with all the new players on the starting 11 - there is no way the defense who have a core of playing together for 2 seasons (Henry + Caldwell) should be playing at the level they are.
Henry is still giving the ball away unless hoofing it 50 yards - I don't think he will ever shed the rush to market "look at our TFC Academy signing" label. Feels like they want to improve his value in order to trade him away. Was Orr injured - he and Caldwell would have been more dominant in the central area where we lost positioning and possession to a NE Forward that had 45 minutes of MLS playing time this season.
Henry should sit and Nelson should be allocating positions much better.
Still feel terrible. Hype detox is the worst.
It came off a bit snippy but more of a 'reality check' than anything (especially after rewatching the game)
I agree that we really just need another striker or two.
WE DID IT!
Was still the right love to start Henry and those willing to give up on him might want to read his stats.
@24thminute: (Henry/Orr - per 90) Aerial wins 3.5/1.2, tackles 2.0/0.5, interceptions 8.0/1.5, clearances 9.5/6, shots 0.8/0.2, pass% 74.8/61.1 #TFC
@24thminute: One last thing: Henry's 8.0 interceptions per 90 ranks him first overall in MLS. As stated, it would be absurd to start Orr over him. #TFC
It doesn't paint the whole picture but it's the guys first start in a while. Let him get his feet back and we will see the return of his dominate play.
I agree but with him just coming back from injury and everyone knowing his often overzealous tendencies combined with the Revs match being an important home match, I think I would have saved him until this Wednesday.
A couple of things on the Rollins article:
Orr played on the wing the first couple of games - that will mess around with per 90 comparisons. Compare Orr and Henry at CD. Henry cost us a goal against RSL (the penalty) and one with NE. Orr was part of the general chicken with a head cut off moments that cost us a goal against Dallas and one against Colorado. Not sure they compare. Apart from that, they don't play the game in the same way, so of course stats are not going to be the same.
Given NE was going with a bruiser in Mullins and an athletic Bunbury, the choice of Henry was understandable but not necessarily the only approach.
Morrow has been to the all-star game and I haven't seen Bloom make a mistake this year. Rey is obviously an above average MLS winger. you can't say yes, definitely. they are all getting awards because the voting system and recognition is very limited to a certain number of teams who receive all the hype on MLS.com We're gonna have to win games for people across the league to start looking at the rest of our squad. If you saw the pregame preview for the Seattle game on the MLS website you'd see what I mean. None of them knew who Osorio was.
i prefer to judge players by stats and the eye test as opposed to a rigged voting system issued by the league. I'm not sure why you are using that as the basis of your player assessment. There were lots of quality MLS players who don't make the all-star team on a consistent basis regardless of their play.
Last edited by molenshtain; 05-05-2014 at 01:24 PM.
I try and remain positive but the fact of the matter is this was TFC at 100%. We had two weeks to resolve injuries and put forth the ideal lineup, and yet we couldn't get it done. Hell, technically New England scored all of the goals for both sides (Jackson shot was going nowhere if it didn't deflect). I'm hoping the current lineup will still be around for the next league game on the 17th against NY so this team can show they can get it together.
Apparently Bradley won't play the next game because of World Cup call up. He's done until after.
Camp opens on the 14th. He will play Wednesday.
Know that I'm not trying to submarine our guys, whom I believe are playing hard.
To me, it is about realistic expectations.
If you really believe that this roster is full of top players AND DPs, then they are underperforming and we are in need of a coaching change right now. Don't wait. Make the move. Done.
And when that happens, with the right coach, this team will instantly become a Cup contender. Top Roster + Top Coach = Success
I don't have those expectations.
I think there is a lot of work to do and that work is going to take time. Whether it is waiting for a player to develop, waiting for the Draft and for that drafted player to develop or a combination thereof, this team is not going to be a serious Cup contender until 2015-2016.
I would be surprised if they make the playoffs this year. I see an improvement in the table finish and a draft pick somewhere in the top 8. I don't expect them to be out of contention by August or anything but I think that weathering injuries and the strength of their roster will be significant challenges. I think it would be a mistake to trade young players and to some extent make a coaching change at this point in time.
If the roster isn't as strong as some believe, the new coach will get similar results and we'll be looking again for someone else because the missing piece of the Top Roster + Top Coach = Success equation will once again be blamed on the coach.
It shouldn't take 8 or 9 coaches for us to figure out that drafting well is a key, key factor for success in this league and the only current drafted player we have on our roster is Kyle Bekker. SKC by comparison has Besler, Myers, Sapong, Zusi … all drafted and all with Caps for the US program. They also have a phenom in Erik Palmer-Brown that was homegrown. This is their core. Again, we have Kyle Bekker. This isn't the current regime's fault. Those before have simply traded and pissed away drafting opportunities chasing short term fixes because their jobs were on the line for immediate results.
My challenge to you is really about having a realistic view of the roster. From that, all discussions go.
(Note that I have no trouble holding Tim L accountable for playoffs since he is selling that everywhere he goes. I don't think it's realistic but ok, if you want to talk it, walk it…. just don't trade away any of those picks)
Sorry, meant MLS.
Looking over the game a bit, I'm really liking Bloom. Having a full back who can cut onto his weak foot and deliver accurate crosses consistently is incredibly rare in this league. We've all seen Morgan on the left side get sized up, pull his hesitations moves and whatnot, and get shut down because his defender knows he's only got one option, which is to push the ball left and cross. Not so with Bloom. And he's good enough defensively. And he's cheap.
Have to credit Payne on his signing, he got it right.
I get it... we had a crappy winter. But the field was just terrible. If it's not brown patchy and lumpy (first few games) it's too thick and heavy (Saturday's game). I've watched quite a bit of MLS this season and pitches in Columbus and New York, who had just as bad a winter as us, look fine. Even Nelsen used it as an excuse post game.
I believe part of it is that Ontario has a no pesticides law that prohibits the use of fungicide.
That said, I don't buy that for a minute.
I think that Pookie is pretty much bang on, although, I think we do make the playoffs. I think that we can pull out ahead of Montreal, New England & Chicago for sure.
Then fight with DC, Philadelphia, NYC for a spot.
times up for Henry. Get him out.
I know people are annoyed with Henry. Heck I was P.O.'d with him too. Now that I'm over the disappointment of last Saturday, I'm feeling that we should cut him some slack. He's 20 years old for heaven's sake. If he's still making these goofy mistakes in a year or two then I'll start worrying. I don't think we should be crucifying him this early on. He has the full package, he just needs to learn to read the game a bit better and to be cool under pressure.
Henry has been spectacular at times but he is still prone to making crucial errors. It's a tough call, because the only way he will mature and develop is by playing regularly as a starter, but his gaffes might continue to cost us valuable points in the standings in the interim. I'm not sure TFC can afford to take that risk this season. Ideally, I would like to see him slot in as our 3rd CB behind another quality veteran.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote