Is MLS out to kill NASL?

[Initial B]

Here's an interesting article:

http://the11.ca/2014/04/08/nasl-comm...tner-to-canada

Here are some of the more interesting quotes:

Peterson will meet with the Canadian Soccer Association officials. His stated goal? To find ways that NASL “can be a better partner” to the CSA. He said that, now that he’s settled in as the league commissioner, he wants to create a closer working relationship with the CSA... Peterson said the league “will explore options on how we can better align ourselves with the CSA’s professional goals.”

Peterson will no longer talk about specific cities — a marked change of strategy, as in his tenure we had grown used to him speaking quite candidly about what cities were in the expansion bubble.

I think he knows he's in a turf war with MLS and is looking to Canada as a way to legitimize the league's existence and provide additional survivability. Would the CSA consider sanctioning NASL as it's official Div 1 league? This could get very... interesting for all parties involved.

[flatpicker]

The only workable compromise I see in a league of 24 or more teams is if MLS is divided into two separate conferences and teams from each will only play against those from another in the playoffs.

That would be my preference. Two single tables and then playoffs. A bit more like baseball.

[OgtheDim]

Yes because turf has been such a problem at Wembley, the San Siro, and Bernabeu. Both Manchester teams, Liverpool, Tottenham and more...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desso_GrassMaster

While you're probably referring to crappy turf installations like we've had in the past then yes, I agree.

Different mixture of turf to real grass then what they will be getting in Atlanta.

[Yohan]

Here's an interesting article:

http://the11.ca/2014/04/08/nasl-comm...tner-to-canada

Here are some of the more interesting quotes:



I think he knows he's in a turf war with MLS and is looking to Canada as a way to legitimize the league's existence and provide additional survivability. Would the CSA consider sanctioning NASL as it's official Div 1 league? This could get very... interesting for all parties involved.

never. you can only have only 1 sanctioned div 1 league per nation IIRC

[jabbronies]

Canada wide league would not work. No one cares that much about Canadian soccer - it's a joke. Anything with a CSA logo on it is a joke.
No one cares about D2/3 soccer - it's boring to watch.
The league would not get the financial backing it would need to cover travel finances, player salaries etc. That alone would kill the league off in a year.

I think the college/university model may be the only thing that could work. The students and communities would be the ones you sell to (1-3k person stadiums)

Keep the teams playing each other local/accessible by bus and then have regional and national championships to finish off the season which are sponsored by big corporations.

[OgtheDim]

Canada wide league would not work. No one cares that much about Canadian soccer - it's a joke. Anything with a CSA logo on it is a joke.
No one cares about D2/3 soccer - it's boring to watch.
..

Maybe for you but there are people who go to games in smaller communities. We will find out with the Ottawa Fury in a few days. There is potential for lower league support of a few hundred to a few thousand in a number of communities across Canada. Whether that can support a Canada wide league is another matter.

[jabbronies]

Maybe for you but there are people who go to games in smaller communities. We will find out with the Ottawa Fury in a few days. There is potential for lower league support of a few hundred to a few thousand in a number of communities across Canada. Whether that can support a Canada wide league is another matter.

You only took part of my quote into consideration. You have to look at it as a whole.

I've bolded the part of your post that I agree with 100%
I do not think those numbers can support a Canada wide league - travel costs alone will kill teams.

I think the college/university model may be the only thing that could work. The students and communities would be the ones you sell to (1-3k person stadiums)

Keep the teams playing each other local/accessible by bus and then have regional and national championships to finish off the season which are sponsored by big corporations.

These numbers are College/University team numbers.

Use the CFL as a model of what a Canada wide Soccer league would need overcome.
Teams would need to pull in 20K each to be financially viable (FC Edmonton are only pulling in 2K per game)

OHL would be a regional league model that soccer could emulate - but I don't know how those teams are sustained.

[Shway]

Here's an interesting article:

http://the11.ca/2014/04/08/nasl-comm...tner-to-canada

Here are some of the more interesting quotes:



I think he knows he's in a turf war with MLS and is looking to Canada as a way to legitimize the league's existence and provide additional survivability. Would the CSA consider sanctioning NASL as it's official Div 1 league? This could get very... interesting for all parties involved.

I actually think this is a brilliant approach for the NASL. Bill is rightfully frustrated with the fact that the MLS is continuing to "take" their franchises/markets. They recognize that the MLS is basically ignoring/using Canada, and know there is an opportunity for them to grow theiby tapping into the Canadian markets. They know the MLS will not be looking to further expand their Canadian markets, and there are several cities that are viable D2 markets like Calgary, Hamilton, Winnipeg, Quebec City,....London & Windsor.

I recently had a conversation with one of youth CMNT coaches, and I was talking to him about the future of Canadian soccer.
I was making mention of how the growth in performance of the U-17 teams (qualifying for 2 straight world cups) was a direct result of the emergence of the professional academies and how the continue growth could have a potential impact on Canada qualifying for the 2018 World Cup.

As I was smiling with optimism, he was looking at me very cynically.

He said: "I call 2018: Mission Impossible"
(I looked at him as if he just broke my heart)

He said the reason was because yes they do well at the youth level, but where do they go after that? There are't enough professional teams, which correlates with the number of professional academies, he also said there isn't enough CMNT players playing in top class environments, or getting significant minutes in the MLS.

He then asked me to name the 5 best players in Canada
...and I said 1. HUTCHINSON 2. OSOrio 3. umm ummm..he interupted me and said see there's my point

We NEED more professional teams in Canada, and the NASL is the way to go forward.

[Initial B]

They know the MLS will not be looking to further expand their Canadian markets, and there are several cities that are viable D2 markets like Calgary, Hamilton, Winnipeg, Quebec City,....London & Windsor.

I'd also argue that Moncton Stadium is just about the right size for a NASL club (or Halifax, if they could ever get their stadium act together). I'd also like to see a team in Saskatchewan - preferably Saskatoon, but most likely Regina due to the new field. It would make sense for the CSA to back teams in those regions to piggyback onto a World Cup bid. Eight Canadian NASL teams would probably be the critical mass to generate better and better players. That would also provide NASL with a stable base of cities that MLS would have no interest of poaching.

[ExiledRed]

(FC Edmonton are only pulling in 2K per game)

Which is roughly what the Toronto Lynx pulled in before TFC arrived.

[prizby]

the only thing MLS is killing these days is away support

[Shway]

SJ had to start from scratch. and Philly

Stand corrected for Philly....however San Jose did not start from scratch,they restarted under the same franchise, and same history

[Fort York Redcoat]

NASL is now working and competing with MLS teams for championships but its inception stuck in the craw of many USLers that were already a part of the American pyramid. Honestly, there's no reason not to "promote" or replace NASL since an NASL team can do the same to a USL city.

NASL has established their quality in very few years. Their place is assured in the American Soccer pyramid for years and years to come.

[Yohan]

Stand corrected for Philly....however San Jose did not start from scratch,they restarted under the same franchise, and same history

technically not true. when old Earthquakes moved to Houston, they took everything with them, except history.

new SJ had to start from beginning, except history. they suffered from same problems that an expansion team had. in that sense, SJ is an expansion team (though just rebuilding on an old ground)

[james]

^ Now THAT is my primary concern, to be honest. I'm very wary about the prospect of a 24-club MLS, nevermind 30 teams. That's thinning the domestic talent pool awfully thin and dividing the fanbase in certain areas which is still quite small compared to those of other North American sports. Not to mention throwing away all hopes of a balanced schedule which would give the league further legitimacy that it often claims it deserves but is not given by the rest of the world.

The only workable compromise I see in a league of 24 or more teams is if MLS is divided into two separate conferences and teams from each will only play against those from another in the playoffs.

I agree

I wouldn't be surprised if we went into divisions like every other sport in USA/Canada, with an unbalanced schedule, however I would hate to see it.

But to look at it

24 teams- every team plays each other 2 times = 46 games that's most likely to many game for MLS in 8 month season.
24 teams- 12 in west and 12 in East. Play all teams in your division twice and play every team in the other division once =34 games. That is how many we played last year.

but as the numbers go up, I mean how do you do it if you have 28 teams or 30 team?
you could play every team once with 30 teams, but they you might have to few games with only 29. By East and West, play your division twice and the other division once you will end up with 43 games.

30 teams - 15 teams west and 15 east
Play only your division teams twice= 28 games
Play other division only in Playoffs/US open Cup/Canada Cup/Champions League


As the league grows in team numbers, without relegation i just don't see any other way to do a schedule without having divisions like NBA,NHL,NFL,MLB with unbalanced schedule unless you do as you said only play your division. But would everyone want to some years never play some of the teams? what if some of those teams in the other division got some super star players?

[Abou Sky]

the only thing MLS is killing these days is away support

Can you elaborate?

[Mark in Ottawa]

Promotion/relegation will not happen ... no matter how good it may be for the game.
Owners putting $75M USD into a franchise don't want any part of a second division with current average crowds of under 6,000 and no TV deal to get money generated from.

The fact that the NASL has no salary cap means that players "down the squad" on MLS teams look at the NASL as a viable alternative to getting similiar money and actually getting to play.
This threatens the MLS slightly but IMHO not enough for them to actively seek out to destroy the NASL.
They have a number of people saying "take my money" and so ... they are listening ...

[ExiledRed]

technically not true. when old Earthquakes moved to Houston, they took everything with them, except history.

new SJ had to start from beginning, except history. they suffered from same problems that an expansion team had. in that sense, SJ is an expansion team (though just rebuilding on an old ground)

Out of curiosity, and pure google avoiding laziness... Wikipedia has SJ's honours intact.

Did the Dynamo take the honours with them or do SJ get to keep them. Who officially owns the honours for SJ prior to their switch to Houston?

[Yohan]

Out of curiosity, and pure google avoiding laziness... Wikipedia has SJ's honours intact.

Did the Dynamo take the honours with them or do SJ get to keep them. Who officially owns the honours for SJ prior to their switch to Houston?

http://www.sjearthquakes.com/news/20...40-years-pride

[prizby]

Can you elaborate?

look at the outrageous west coast pricing for away supporters; Seattle fans had to pay $45 for a ticket and when they got it, it said face value was $27

[Doucet3]

Yes because turf has been such a problem at Wembley, the San Siro, and Bernabeu. Both Manchester teams, Liverpool, Tottenham and more...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desso_GrassMaster

While you're probably referring to crappy turf installations like we've had in the past then yes, I agree.

Come on lol were Toronto FC supporters of course I mean that terrible turf. If it's like United where it's a proper hybrid I'm all for it but I still prefer 100% grass.

[ExiledRed]

Yes because turf has been such a problem at Wembley, the San Siro, and Bernabeu. Both Manchester teams, Liverpool, Tottenham and more...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desso_GrassMaster

While you're probably referring to crappy turf installations like we've had in the past then yes, I agree.

Grassmaster is not fieldturf. it is heated fibres woven into real grass, there is no comparison.
The players on the teams you listed would balk at playing a season on fieldturf made with silicone and plastic.