Is MLS out to kill NASL?

[Initial B]

I've been reading about Atlanta's MLS expansions with some interest and I realized something. Regardless of arena issues, this is a big shot across the bow of NASL. I don't see the Silverbacks surviving once the MLS moves in.

This got me to thinking about the expansion moves MLS has made over the past few years:
1. Pulling Montreal away from NASL.
2. Their partnership and cooperation with USL Pro (NASL's closest competition), giving them legitimacy as the way for players to step up to MLS.
3. Giving a franchise to NYCFC, effectively shutting out the Cosmos as the 2nd New York MLS team.
4. Giving Beckham the keys to Miami, 20km from the Fort Lauderdale Strikers.
5. Leaking news of a press conference in Atlanta that would take place the day before the Silverbacks' first home game of the season.
6. Holding talks with San Antonio, Indianapolis, Minnesota about possibly jumping to MLS.
7. Garber not stating that expansion will stop after 24 teams, which is raising alarm bells in NASL circles (as noted in the following article: http://www.soccerwire.com/news/leagu...bill-peterson/ )

I'm beginning to suspect that MLS' strategy is to deliberately target the existing (and profitable) NASL cities to squeeze the League into insolvency (and by extension their backer, Traffic Sports Marketing, whose VP Davidson is owner of the Railhawks). I wonder if MLS wants to set up a second division that they control as MLS2 and remove any chance of competing leagues in one fell swoop. I think the reasons for this were sown back in 2012 when Davidson stated he didn't want NASL to be seen as a reserve league (article: http://www.indyweek.com/triangleoffe...triangle-media ). I think this may have effectively killed any possibility of the two organizations working together. I bet there's going to be a lot more articles coming out this week as soccer bloggers and reporters start digging around.

Can you imagine what a single-entity Div1 and Div2 MLS would look like? Maybe they'll introduce some form of promotion/relegation where almost all the non-playoff MLS teams will have to have a home-at-home playoff with a MLS2 counterpart to avoid relegation. Maybe they'll almost have the same salary cap so it's easier to get back into the first division again.

Is it just my paranoid delusions kicking in or does it sound like NA soccer league war is brewing? (Full Disclosure, I'm also an Ottawa Fury fan, so dissolution of the league would be disasterous for us.)

[Oldtimer]

Promotion/relegation will not happen. However, it is possible that MLS may want to kill the NASL as they have seen themselves as a competitor to MLS.

[Yohan]

Promotion/relegation will not happen. However, it is possible that MLS may want to kill the NASL as they have seen themselves as a competitor to MLS.

I think this is it. Kill NASL, take the best NASL teams into MLS, the weaker NASL teams get absorbed into USL which permanently becomes a feeder D2 league. (and NY Cosmos goes bankrupt)

[MartinUtd]

Maybe. But if I were in the MLS head office, I'd be looking at the biggest secondary markets for expansion. It only seems natural. But yeah, this Silverback's thing is a bit disturbing. I have no faith that the southeast and honestly believe only 1 of the 3 teams will survive. Probably Orlando despite the financial backing of the other two.

[TFC07]

There's plenty of markets out there (especially if you include Canada) that NASL can still be successful. In fact, I would say NASL team in Southern Ontario (GTA or Hamilton) can be successful. I don't think MLS will kill NASL, but Canada soccer POV, death of NASL could mean all Canadian 2nd division league though. So maybe it's good thing for us (Canadian soccer fans) to hope NASL fails so we can form all Canadian league which I believe it can be successful due to lack of sports competition and average joe in Canada being more open to watch soccer than average joe in USA.

[Beach_Red]

Promotion/relegation will not happen. However, it is possible that MLS may want to kill the NASL as they have seen themselves as a competitor to MLS.

Yes. What MLS would really like is for college soccer to become a big deal. Dream big, imagine a Final Four of soccer or a college Bowl game championship.

[Initial B]

Promotion/relegation will not happen. However, it is possible that MLS may want to kill the NASL as they have seen themselves as a competitor to MLS.

Oh, they won't call it promotion/relegation if there is a chance for half the league to switch from MLS to MLS2. They'll call them some sort of secondary playoffs and use them to generate additional revenue for the clubs.

On second thought, perhaps MLS will attempt to wrest control of the individual owners and bring their teams and league under the single entity model. I think MLS really doesn't like Traffic Sports USA.

[Super]

I personally think that the MLS is a little too busy expanding the league rather than address the main problems with it: the salary cap. More teams will mean less talent to go around for all MLS teams, and that will lower the quality of the product. Not a great thing when the league is trying to sell the product on TV. We need a much stronger on-field product MORE than we need more teams in the league. Just my 2 cents.

At least Becks agrees.

[RealG-TFC]

If NASL dies, im sure there will be something else that springs up. Who knows, maybe if NASL dies we could have a Canada wide league (not including TFC, VWFC, IMFC).

[MartinUtd]

I personally think that the MLS is a little too busy expanding the league rather than address the main problems with it: the salary cap. More teams will mean less talent to go around for all MLS teams, and that will lower the quality of the product. Not a great thing when the league is trying to sell the product on TV. We need a much stronger on-field product MORE than we need more teams in the league. Just my 2 cents.

At least Becks agrees.

Beckham only wants to flood his team with cash so he doesn't have to put up the effort to grow anything. This is a vanity project for him and building a u12 academy in south FL is at the bottom of his priority list.

[Super]

Beckham only wants to flood his team with cash so he doesn't have to put up the effort to grow anything. This is a vanity project for him and building a u12 academy in south FL is at the bottom of his priority list.

We don't know if he's planning on eventually building an academy like we've done. It's not a bad investment - and fans love homegrown players. I'm not too concerned. In terms of building the sport, I still feel that a local product that is of high quality is more likely to get people watching, at the stadium and on TV. That takes a lot of cash. At some point the MLS will have to make that leap anyway - or we'll never be a top 5 league. Might as well make the leap when we have this many teams with deep pockets. Plus the league is enjoying tons of attention right now.

[nascarguy]

there is already 3 new east they need to get 3 west

[ag futbol]

Maybe. But if I were in the MLS head office, I'd be looking at the biggest secondary markets for expansion. It only seems natural. But yeah, this Silverback's thing is a bit disturbing. I have no faith that the southeast and honestly believe only 1 of the 3 teams will survive. Probably Orlando despite the financial backing of the other two.

I think it's kind of sad that after making real inroads with SSS and quality ownership groups, everything has slid backwards in terms of the quality of the proposals they are looking at. ONE franchise that is disproportionately successful playing in a NFL stadium is being used to justify a whole rash of bad alternatives. Also think some of these groups have their own agendas and aren't the ideal business partners.

They'll pay for these choices eventually, if they don't tread carefully.

[TFC07]

Money talks. If someone giving you $75-100 million to join your league, then you take it and run with it. SSS don't matter anymore because it's too costly to maintain it and plus finding land to build SSS is also a challenge as well. Not every city can put SSS in downtown core like Toronto which is why I hate the idea sharing BMO field with CFL team. I don't mind sharing BMO field with others if BMO field didn't have to be completely rebuild to fit a CFL field while risk seeing football lines and torn out turf which will affect quality of the game.

[nascarguy]

Hamilton tiger cats owner has the rights to a NASL soccer team that will play at the new field.

[Shway]

I personally think that the MLS is a little too busy expanding the league rather than address the main problems with it: the salary cap. More teams will mean less talent to go around for all MLS teams, and that will lower the quality of the product. Not a great thing when the league is trying to sell the product on TV. We need a much stronger on-field product MORE than we need more teams in the league. Just my 2 cents.

At least Becks agrees.

I agree, and I've been extremely bothered by recent developments of the MLS.

First thing- Technically speaking there hasn't been any "expansion teams" SINCE Toronto, the newest "expansion team" will be NYCFC. The rest were existing franchises, with existing fans just being promoted to D1.

On the note of the expansion teams, the league was able to move to MLS out of 1.0 and into 2.0. However I think they aren't taking the necessary steps to move to 3.0 like changing the salary cap significantly, more SSS stadiums in the right areas, less turf fields, improving attendance,ect. Now I feel like there trying to grow without the work by taking teams from d2 or d3. This method will not grow the game, it definitely will not improve the product, and IMHO North America is too big for MLS to act like the rest of the major league sports.

I have many other issues, but ill turn my rant off

[Shway]

Hamilton tiger cats owner has the rights to a NASL soccer team that will play at the new field.

There suppose to play in 2016, I read somewhere that they will have a youth setup so this will be good for Canada soccer

[nascarguy]

There suppose to play in 2016, I read somewhere that they will have a youth setup so this will be good for Canada soccer

I'm hoping to buy season tickets but I have not heard anything yet

[Shway]

I'm hoping to buy season tickets but I have not heard anything yet

Heard they were trying to first focus on launching the TiCats first for year 1, then launching the NASL team. The TiCats exclusive deal expired but got extended for their first rights to a professional team. Reason why TFC and the lynx USLpro bid failed

[Yohan]

I agree, and I've been extremely bothered by recent developments of the MLS.

First thing- Technically speaking there hasn't been any "expansion teams" SINCE Toronto, the newest "expansion team" will be NYCFC. The rest were existing franchises, with existing fans just being promoted to D1.

On the note of the expansion teams, the league was able to move to MLS out of 1.0 and into 2.0. However I think they aren't taking the necessary steps to move to 3.0 like changing the salary cap significantly, more SSS stadiums in the right areas, less turf fields, improving attendance,ect. Now I feel like there trying to grow without the work by taking teams from d2 or d3. This method will not grow the game, it definitely will not improve the product, and IMHO North America is too big for MLS to act like the rest of the major league sports.

I have many other issues, but ill turn my rant off

SJ had to start from scratch. and Philly

[Dub Narcotic]

I agree, and I've been extremely bothered by recent developments of the MLS.

First thing- Technically speaking there hasn't been any "expansion teams" SINCE Toronto, the newest "expansion team" will be NYCFC. The rest were existing franchises, with existing fans just being promoted to D1.

On the note of the expansion teams, the league was able to move to MLS out of 1.0 and into 2.0. However I think they aren't taking the necessary steps to move to 3.0 like changing the salary cap significantly, more SSS stadiums in the right areas, less turf fields, improving attendance,ect. Now I feel like there trying to grow without the work by taking teams from d2 or d3. This method will not grow the game, it definitely will not improve the product, and IMHO North America is too big for MLS to act like the rest of the major league sports.

I have many other issues, but ill turn my rant off

You are being too unfair to the league, although I share your concerns about NYCFC and Miami being made up of whole cloth:

1. How much more can they do on the stadium front? San Jose will open next year; D.C. has a plan in one of the most difficult cities to build in in North America, and they will probably try and re-locate Chivas next year. There aren't many other glaring situations except for NER, and if the owner doesn't want to move, they really can't do much.

2. The salary cap can only be re-negotiated when the CBA expires: that is at the end of the year. I actually don't care to see it go up much past $4 or $4.5 million. I'd rather see money spent on private planes for away trips, U-14 residency teams and stadium improvements. A big cap means less opportunity for domestic players of both nationalities.

3. Turf is the future, especially in this bad weather. In many cases, the league has no say in the matter in any case.

[Doucet3]

I've been reading about Atlanta's MLS expansions with some interest and I realized something. Regardless of arena issues, this is a big shot across the bow of NASL. I don't see the Silverbacks surviving once the MLS moves in.

This got me to thinking about the expansion moves MLS has made over the past few years:
1. Pulling Montreal away from NASL.
2. Their partnership and cooperation with USL Pro (NASL's closest competition), giving them legitimacy as the way for players to step up to MLS.
3. Giving a franchise to NYCFC, effectively shutting out the Cosmos as the 2nd New York MLS team.
4. Giving Beckham the keys to Miami, 20km from the Fort Lauderdale Strikers.
5. Leaking news of a press conference in Atlanta that would take place the day before the Silverbacks' first home game of the season.
6. Holding talks with San Antonio, Indianapolis, Minnesota about possibly jumping to MLS.
7. Garber not stating that expansion will stop after 24 teams, which is raising alarm bells in NASL circles (as noted in the following article: http://www.soccerwire.com/news/leagu...bill-peterson/ )

I'm beginning to suspect that MLS' strategy is to deliberately target the existing (and profitable) NASL cities to squeeze the League into insolvency (and by extension their backer, Traffic Sports Marketing, whose VP Davidson is owner of the Railhawks). I wonder if MLS wants to set up a second division that they control as MLS2 and remove any chance of competing leagues in one fell swoop. I think the reasons for this were sown back in 2012 when Davidson stated he didn't want NASL to be seen as a reserve league (article: http://www.indyweek.com/triangleoffe...triangle-media ). I think this may have effectively killed any possibility of the two organizations working together. I bet there's going to be a lot more articles coming out this week as soccer bloggers and reporters start digging around.

Can you imagine what a single-entity Div1 and Div2 MLS would look like? Maybe they'll introduce some form of promotion/relegation where almost all the non-playoff MLS teams will have to have a home-at-home playoff with a MLS2 counterpart to avoid relegation. Maybe they'll almost have the same salary cap so it's easier to get back into the first division again.

Is it just my paranoid delusions kicking in or does it sound like NA soccer league war is brewing? (Full Disclosure, I'm also an Ottawa Fury fan, so dissolution of the league would be disasterous for us.)

I foresee the Silverbacks doing a MON and VAN and ATL just being "promoted" per say.

1. was a good business move for MLS
2. again a smart business move by MLS; stunts NASL growth kinda by not giving them that type of deal being the move skilled league, and USL isn't really competition so that type of deal is a win for both (MLS and USL) leagues cause the USL make some extra cash and MLS get a loanee lg.
3. The Cosmos already stated (I'm 90% sure) they never wanted to be in the MLS and when 2 owners buy a team like MCFC and NYY your not going to say no thats like telling a brinks truck to go away lol
4. Smart Business deal by MLS i agree the MLS gave him the keys to Miami and he's going to kill it in south florida and Orlando is the North the NASL in fla i can see declining allot.
5. In all honesty this was a orlando situation for me i seen ATL as the next viable team being the highest attendance team in the NASL.
6. I pray SA dosnt get a team… not cause they don't deserve it or wouldn't be able to hold one together i just think 3 teams in TX is to many and will turn out bad with one team turning into a Chivas with 6000 crowds.. just my thought; would love to see Minnesota United be "promoted" like MON and VAN and ATL

Personally i like the NASL i like Edmonton and will be interested in Ottawa as a canadian and i actually like the league its decent play not MLS but its interesting so id be pretty disappointed to see is fail yet again. the USL seems to big in terms of teams to be shut down so that kinda leaves NASL as the middle child to MLS and USL. I'd love to see a NASL and USL merger in terms of Div 2 but that won't happen. either way i was Ottawa and Edmonton to survive in the USL, a New Div 2 or in the MLS (will never happen)

[Doucet3]

3. Turf is the future, especially in this bad weather. In many cases, the league has no say in the matter in any case.

if turf is the future were all fucked

[james]

I think it's kind of sad that after making real inroads with SSS and quality ownership groups, everything has slid backwards in terms of the quality of the proposals they are looking at. ONE franchise that is disproportionately successful playing in a NFL stadium is being used to justify a whole rash of bad alternatives. Also think some of these groups have their own agendas and aren't the ideal business partners.

They'll pay for these choices eventually, if they don't tread carefully.

I completely agree, they are growing to fast now. THe league has improved a lot in the passed decade, they got a taste for money, and are now starting to lose there original slower growth of the league. I think they are making some mistakes.

[Cashcleaner]

I don't think MLS really pays all that much attention to the NASL, and I highly doubt there is some sort of effort going on to undermine the lower league. At the end of the day, MLS has to answer for it's business decisions to it's investors and expansion is no different. Owners that can front the expansion fee, have a venue in place, and who have a long-term plan in place to market and promote the team are the ones that win bids. It's as simple as that.

And let's not forget that often those potential owners themselves have investors they need to keep happy as well, and if bidding for an MLS club is a risk their masters are willing to take, they will do so because the possible payoff is worth it. You can't blame the MLS for enticing the owners of NASL teams to make a switch to the top flight because it's a decision based almost completely on economics.

And promotion and relegation just won't happen for the same general reason - nobody with money on the line are comfortable operating in such a system because the monetary risks are far too great.

[james]

I also worry how many teams will MLS have? I think they will go up to 30 teams. This will probably kill the chances of ever being more like a Europe schedule, best you could hope fol is a play every team 1 time, but more likely we will have some unbalanced division like set-up schedule. MLS will never want to go the 2 division tier system, teams payed money to join MLS and they want to stay in it forever, they would never except a relegation, and to be honest MLS business wouldn't even understand the system, it wouldn't make sense to them. Sorry for us but we live in North America, we will not be like Europe or South America (some South American/central/Mexico countries have a bit of a weird set-up them self's tho)

[Cashcleaner]

^ Now THAT is my primary concern, to be honest. I'm very wary about the prospect of a 24-club MLS, nevermind 30 teams. That's thinning the domestic talent pool awfully thin and dividing the fanbase in certain areas which is still quite small compared to those of other North American sports. Not to mention throwing away all hopes of a balanced schedule which would give the league further legitimacy that it often claims it deserves but is not given by the rest of the world.

The only workable compromise I see in a league of 24 or more teams is if MLS is divided into two separate conferences and teams from each will only play against those from another in the playoffs.

[Wooster_TFC]

if turf is the future were all fucked

Yes because turf has been such a problem at Wembley, the San Siro, and Bernabeu. Both Manchester teams, Liverpool, Tottenham and more...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desso_GrassMaster

While you're probably referring to crappy turf installations like we've had in the past then yes, I agree.

[nascarguy]

I seen that youtube video about Wembley and soccer(football) kills grass more the CFL. our field was fucked up after the winter we had something has to be done

[C.Ronaldo]

MLS is the call girl that anyone can afford.

It should be by invite only call girl like NHL / NFL