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  1. #61
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    As a cable subscriber in Toronto I find the biggest issue is that Bell are total idiots about carrying Sportsnet channels and Rogers are total idiots about the TSN channels.

    In both cases you need to select monster sports add ons to get all the selections, you can't just pick up two or three channels. That is what really curbs access to the TSN2's and Sportnetone's.
    Road Trips: July 7 2007 Chicago, July 22nd 2007 Columbus, August 11 2007 NY, October 13 2007 LA, March 29 2008 Columbus, May 24th 2008 DC, May 26 2008 Montreal, June 28th 2008 NE, March 7-11-14 2009 Charleston, March 28 2009 Columbus, April 10 2010 New England, May 12 2010 Montreal, April 7 2012 Montreal, March 16 2013 Montreal , June 3 2014 Montreal, March 14 2015 Columbus

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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by mowe View Post
    The fact is one TFC game drew 352 thousand viewers (or flies if you prefer) and two weeks later a game drew 53 thousand. The drop could be attributed to a slowdown of the hype machine, the channel carrying the game, what other programming it was up against etc. I personally am really interested in this kind of stuff so it's fun to talk about.

    Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing what the ratings are for the Colorado game. I consider games on TSN to be the true national broadcasts to compare with NBCSN in the States. Seattle-Portland got around 250k I believe.
    352k, considering the money spent is flies in terms of the landscape of Toronto sports. It only beat previous records by a few thousand. It's about half what the Argos get (I know, I know everyone that watches the Argos is watching the other team )

    The fact that networks, that own the team, bury TFC on these "remote" channels should tell us all we need to know about MLS' popularity with the mainstream.

    I don't see that as bad. Supporting TFC (or the National Team, which also draws flies) has been the most fun I have had at any live sporting event. I have been fortunate enough to see the Leafs in the playoffs live and I am talking fun games when they were actually winning too. I'd still take a CCL game or road trip or cold opener or warm july evening over any of those.

    I don't mind if TFC is a well kept secret. I really don't care as long as they show the games somewhere.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    352k, considering the money spent is flies in terms of the landscape of Toronto sports. It only beat previous records by a few thousand. It's about half what the Argos get (I know, I know everyone that watches the Argos is watching the other team )

    The fact that networks, that own the team, bury TFC on these "remote" channels should tell us all we need to know about MLS' popularity with the mainstream.

    I don't see that as bad. Supporting TFC (or the National Team, which also draws flies) has been the most fun I have had at any live sporting event. I have been fortunate enough to see the Leafs in the playoffs live and I am talking fun games when they were actually winning too. I'd still take a CCL game or road trip or cold opener or warm july evening over any of those.

    I don't mind if TFC is a well kept secret. I really don't care as long as they show the games somewhere.

    somewhere is better than everywhere. ALL games on MLS live would be better than the scatter shit they pull

    The reason eevryone is looking to the internet, XBMC, websites, online streams. its the only way.
    Last edited by C.Ronaldo; 04-09-2014 at 10:23 AM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    352k, considering the money spent is flies in terms of the landscape of Toronto sports. It only beat previous records by a few thousand. It's about half what the Argos get (I know, I know everyone that watches the Argos is watching the other team )

    The fact that networks, that own the team, bury TFC on these "remote" channels should tell us all we need to know about MLS' popularity with the mainstream.
    352k is pretty significant for an MLS team that started up in 2007. The Jays averaged 650k in 2013, and 540k in 2012. Leafs games on Sportsnet average 700k. The Raptors are in the mid-to-high-200s since their resurgence this season.

    The point about burying TFC is an interesting one. Bell puts a lot of resources into marketing and production value, they have 14 TFC games on TSN vs 9 on TSN2, and so far their TSN ratings have been great (again, let's see how this weekend plays out). Rogers on the other hand have all games on SN360 and SN1 and soccer clearly isn't a priority for them, which isn't changing anytime soon.

    MLS clearly has a long way to go to break into the mainstream in Canada, but what they've done so far is impressive. Especially considering that outside of the GTA and maybe a small audience in Vancouver and Montreal, no one knows anything about TFC. There's a lot of room to grow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mowe View Post
    352k is pretty significant for an MLS team that started up in 2007. The Jays averaged 650k in 2013, and 540k in 2012. Leafs games on Sportsnet average 700k. The Raptors are in the mid-to-high-200s since their resurgence this season.
    Perhaps but in 2007 they did 301k on CBC. The growth is marginal.

    The point about burying TFC is an interesting one. Bell puts a lot of resources into marketing and production value, they have 14 TFC games on TSN vs 9 on TSN2, and so far their TSN ratings have been great (again, let's see how this weekend plays out). Rogers on the other hand have all games on SN360 and SN1 and soccer clearly isn't a priority for them, which isn't changing anytime soon.
    I'm interested to see that too. If they can beat the numbers CBC used to do, that would be good. That said, you'd expect a sports channel to do better than CBC as they can promote the games in their "news" shows and online content.

    My point about TSN2 or Sportsnet360 or One is simply that many here say that's the reason the numbers are low. I absolutely think there is validity to that. Yet over a 100,000 more Raptors fans managed to find their team's game on those same channels. To me, doing a 70k or a 50k vs the Raptors doing 178k on the same channel shows you the relative interest from the mainstream market in MLS and specifically TFC.

    MLS clearly has a long way to go to break into the mainstream in Canada, but what they've done so far is impressive. Especially considering that outside of the GTA and maybe a small audience in Vancouver and Montreal, no one knows anything about TFC. There's a lot of room to grow.
    Agreed. It will take more than a couple of signings to change that. Ideally it will grow and Canadians will ultimately become motivated to support their National team.

  6. #66
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    The problem with TSN over CBC is simple... nearly every household in Canada gets CBC most in HD for free if they want. TSN HD TSN2 HD and SN HD is $100 a month. I refuse to pay that...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    The problem with TSN over CBC is simple... nearly every household in Canada gets CBC most in HD for free if they want. TSN HD TSN2 HD and SN HD is $100 a month. I refuse to pay that...
    amen, preaching to the choir!

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    What's the guess on Saturday's ratings v Colorado? 160k?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    What's the guess on Saturday's ratings v Colorado? 160k?
    Prob dropped down dramatically after ppl realized it was just hoofball all game.

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    https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh...152835170.html

    Big drop in viewers with only 101k watching the Colorado game. For comparison Vancouver at LA got 122k and Liverpool-City got 228k.

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    I guessed high.

    Let's discuss.

    This game was on TSN, not TSN 2 or TSN 8 "The Ocho" (copyright "Dodgeball"). It was on Saturday afternoon. The team has a winning record.

    Vancouver vs LA on TSN later that night drew 122,000. Vancouver market is about 1/3 that of Ontario. Everton v Sunderland on Sportsnet drew slightly less than TFC at 81,000.

    The hype machine might need a little tweaking.
    Last edited by Pookie; 04-15-2014 at 11:41 AM.

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    I'm guessing that the home debut of Defoe and Bradley was an "event" that people tuned in for and did not represent the real draw of the team.

    It's possible that knowing that Defoe and/or Bradley were out also affected numbers, but I would be very surprised if that was a significant amount (if at all). If that is true, it would say a lot about what the draw of the team is.

  13. #73
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    I'll take 100K.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    I'll take 100K.
    We've always had 100k.

    I'm sure they didn't spend millions to stay the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    I guessed high.

    Let's discuss.

    This game was on TSN, not TSN 2 or TSN 8 "The Ocho" (copyright "Dodgeball"). It was on Saturday afternoon. The team has a winning record.

    Vancouver vs LA on TSN later that night drew 122,000. Vancouver market is about 1/3 that of Ontario. Everton v Sunderland on Sportsnet drew slightly less than TFC at 81,000.

    The hype machine might need a little tweaking.
    EPL games always get great ratings despite playing during morning (Canadian) time. That Everton v Sunderland isn't high profile game like Man City-Liverpool game, so no one shouldn't be surprised that they only got 86K viewers.

    Vancouver rating might have to do with Canucks being out of playoffs. So all attention is on Whitecaps until BC Lions season starts. Also, they were playing against LA Galaxy (most popular MLS team)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    I guessed high.

    Let's discuss.

    This game was on TSN, not TSN 2 or TSN 8 "The Ocho" (copyright "Dodgeball"). It was on Saturday afternoon. The team has a winning record.

    Vancouver vs LA on TSN later that night drew 122,000. Vancouver market is about 1/3 that of Ontario. Everton v Sunderland on Sportsnet drew slightly less than TFC at 81,000.

    The hype machine might need a little tweaking.
    No Defoe, Bradley, was a rather nice day to be outside -- for once -- and a non-sexy opponent as far as general public goes.

    Sure would be nice to see somewhat consistent start times some day. I think there are more different start times than games on any given MLS Saturday. Next Toronto Saturday home games are 1 p.m., then 4:30 p.m., then 5 p.m., then 4 p.m., then 7 p.m. Gah.

    But yeah, I think when "the bigs" come back and (hopefully) start popping in some goals, it'll improve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    352k, considering the money spent is flies in terms of the landscape of Toronto sports. It only beat previous records by a few thousand. It's about half what the Argos get (I know, I know everyone that watches the Argos is watching the other team )

    The fact that networks, that own the team, bury TFC on these "remote" channels should tell us all we need to know about MLS' popularity with the mainstream.

    I don't see that as bad. Supporting TFC (or the National Team, which also draws flies) has been the most fun I have had at any live sporting event. I have been fortunate enough to see the Leafs in the playoffs live and I am talking fun games when they were actually winning too. I'd still take a CCL game or road trip or cold opener or warm july evening over any of those.

    I don't mind if TFC is a well kept secret. I really don't care as long as they show the games somewhere.
    The fluctuation in TV numbers for TFC is always concerning. Say what you want about the Jays and Argos, but their TV numbers generally don"t fluctuate that much and if they do there is usually a reason, ie holiday weekend etc. TV. Advertiser need to be shown that same audience is there every game. Until MLS can show consistent solid TV numbers, week in and week out, they will always be the poor cousin when it comes to TV deals and pro okie the Argos average a 1.6 share in just the GTA, which puts them usually second in the Toronto market for TV ratings in the GTA during that time period that their game is on.

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    TfC should be able to double or triple tv viewing figures with a successful play-off run.

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    Our ugly style of play certainly isn't going to attract new viewers on tv.

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    If any team in MLS started to attract a steady TV audience, I'd be interested to know. Bradley as Defoe or not, the league simply hasn't been a viewing success.

    It's still mostly a niche offering where people like the live entertainment option. Will probably stay that way until some more of the quality gap between MLS and the top leagues disappears.

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    I wonder if networks actually like to broadcast soccer. Or more to the point their advertisers?

    With all the time outs and changes in play, MLB, NHL, NBA and NFL allow you to put in a lot of commercials. Too many as far as I am concerned but that's another debate.

    Soccer is straight action for 45+ mins, a break and then another 45+. Advertisers get lumped into the halftime. Can't be too appealing.

    Question 2, with these low ratings does a 30,000 seat sold out stadium still seem realistic?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    I wonder if networks actually like to broadcast soccer. Or more to the point their advertisers?

    With all the time outs and changes in play, MLB, NHL, NBA and NFL allow you to put in a lot of commercials. Too many as far as I am concerned but that's another debate.

    Soccer is straight action for 45+ mins, a break and then another 45+. Advertisers get lumped into the halftime. Can't be too appealing.

    Question 2, with these low ratings does a 30,000 seat sold out stadium still seem realistic?
    Ratings and going to the game are not related in the way you are making it out.

    My father has been to one game, if he had time or it was easier (niagara) he'd go to more. He has started watching it on TV a little. His biggest complaint is that TV broadcasts just don't do the game justice, watching it live (at Skydome for the CCL Quarterfinal game) he said it was all the runs being made by other players that he loved. TV coverage gets in so close you don't see any of it, or not as well.

    Granted he watches more for me. He didn't watch this Saturday because it was at 8:30pm. He was out with his wife.

    More so EPL is still a higher level of Football. I'm sure the NHL gets better TV rating in Finland then the Finnish League does. We have to accept that.

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    I do agree in that the live experience is significantly better.

    What I am wondering though is what the actual market for TFC really is. If roughly 8-10k more tickets are to be sold (according to Tim L), where are these fans going to come from?

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    ^^Viability of a 30k sellout is going to depend largely on success of the team IMHO. If the team is doing well, people will come. If not, they won't.

    Prices will also play a role in the future once they start going up. So will quality of the games.

    i don't think (and have never thought) that big name DP's will directly convert into attendance. They convert into hype around SSH sales times which drives additional purchases. They convert into short term demand - it's hard to argue that seeing Defoe was a major driver at the home opener. But it 6 months time (or even 2 or 3), I just don't see people buying tickets in droves just to see Defoe.

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    football money is made from jerseys, sponsorships, rights, etc..
    There is TV ad money but I cant imagine it be as much as NFLs non stop commercials

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post
    football money is made from jerseys, sponsorships, rights, etc..
    There is TV ad money but I cant imagine it be as much as NFLs non stop commercials
    When you are owned by Bell and Rogers, there is also other, much larger avenues for profit utilizing the MLSE teams to drive profit into their other lines (IE cell phone contracts, data plans, ect).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    I do agree in that the live experience is significantly better.

    What I am wondering though is what the actual market for TFC really is. If roughly 8-10k more tickets are to be sold (according to Tim L), where are these fans going to come from?
    it really is a matter of how good the product is.

    If they are up around the top of the standings and a regular play off team then I can see it.

    The first 5 years or so, you could have sold out that stadium at 30,000 seats it was not easy to get tickets I didn't even try until 2009.

    But it won't sell out every game. There is nothing wrong with that.

    Here is what I've seen.

    IF we can't sell it out, it's a failure.
    If our ratings aren't the highest in the world it's bush league
    If we don't have a roof it's bush league.
    If it's not the right roof it's bush league
    The fans aren't the right kind of fans so it's bush league
    We haven't spent enough money.
    We have spent too much money.
    We haven't spent the money right.
    We need to win no matter what the game looks like
    We aren't playing pretty football.
    We aren't playing fast enough.
    We don't have enough skill
    We have too much skill but they can't handle the league.


    No matter what happens people are going to complain.

    (Pookie I'm not calling you out, it's the board in general)

    I don't understand it.. the only thing TFC fans seem to regularly support is the team is a failure no matter what happens.

    I'm not happy with Gilberto's performance, however we are still third in the east after playing the top teams in the league in our first 6 games.

    It was a tough tough start and we didn't do horrible. The Injuries just shows we aren't a super club. (Which is fine I don't have to do a spit take, which I'm happy and sad about)

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    Ratings for the Dallas game are in.

    35,000

    Ouch.

    Chris Zelkovich, who publishes the ratings in his blog wrote:

    While the Raptors are showing promise, their soccer brethren aren't faring so well on television. In what has to be a major embarrassment, the team's game against Dallas on Saturday drew the interest of only 35,000 viewers to Sportsnet One.

    Granted, Saturday night during the hockey playoffs is never good for ratings and Sportsnet One doesn't have the widest distribution. But 35,000 is the kind of audience you'd expect for lumberjack competitions

    This is not what MLSE envisioned when it paid out all those millions for star players.


    https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh...230401936.html
    Last edited by Pookie; 04-23-2014 at 09:34 PM.

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    ^There is no business model that supports the Defoe/Bradley signings, we should enjoy every second they are here, because if/when a bean counter gets the reins, they will be taken from us in a nanosecond.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    For comparison Seattle drew about 45k viewers for their last game against Chivas, which was just under their highest rated match ever on local TV. Seattle has the highest local TV ratings in MLS.

 

 

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