2014 TFC TV ratings

[Pookie]

TFC is not promoted as much like the Whitecaps are and that might be a part of the reason. To me there seems to be a Whitecap bias from TSN, not sure about SN.

I can also see how most viewers tuning in the early portion of the season weren't MLS fans, most subsequently stopped watching after realising the football being played isn't up to their expectations. We aren't exactly playing beautifully.

I would agree though don't see the promotion part as being the factor in losing fans.

What you see on TV is also what you see at the stadium lately, despite announced sell outs or near capacity games. To the untrained eye, BMO is far from full.

The casual fan was sold on hype and even in the the playoff run, MLS just doesn't cut it for the mainstream.

I personally don't care. I enjoy it and don't need a crowd to justify my sports preference.

Where I do think there is pause for concern is when I read alleged comments by a TFC Ticket Rep saying prices will go up if there is success on field.

I think that they are VASTLY overestimating the demand. TFC to the mainstream is an event. Not a season long following. The tv numbers paint that picture. The attendance, the real attendance, paints that picture.

Raising prices would only serve to screw over the fans that actually care. Once they go, the casual fan won't be there to keep this thing alive.

Colossal mistake in my mind to raise prices but with their spends on players and the stadium, I am not sure if they have the wisdom to reconsider.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I would agree though don't see the promotion part as being the factor in losing fans.

What you see on TV is also what you see at the stadium lately, despite announced sell outs or near capacity games. To the untrained eye, BMO is far from full.

The casual fan was sold on hype and even in the the playoff run, MLS just doesn't cut it for the mainstream.

I personally don't care. I enjoy it and don't need a crowd to justify my sports preference.

Where I do think there is pause for concern is when I read alleged comments by a TFC Ticket Rep saying prices will go up if there is success on field.

I think that they are VASTLY overestimating the demand. TFC to the mainstream is an event. Not a season long following. The tv numbers paint that picture. The attendance, the real attendance, paints that picture.

Raising prices would only serve to screw over the fans that actually care. Once they go, the casual fan won't be there to keep this thing alive.

Colossal mistake in my mind to raise prices but with their spends on players and the stadium, I am not sure if they have the wisdom to reconsider.

Well we'll have more to talk about when they make the decision on renewal rates. Regardless what they sell us "the untrained eye" can even see that A) When we make the playoffs we are limping in B) They have to sell 8K more seats

They have a hard sell if ahead if they plan on raising the rate on the casual fan, who as we all know, rules Toronto the sports in this city.

[Heepster]

TV ratings are becoming less important than they had been. They exist for the purpose of setting television advertising rates, and television advertising in Canada has been significantly decreasing.
http://to411daily.com/2014/05/07/can...way-down-crtc/

From what I can see on the Numeris/BBM website, the only TV ratings information they make directly available to the public is a weekly list of Canada's Top 30 TV shows, which rarely has anything related to sports. They appear to keep anything else private for the use of those in the advertising business. Presumably anything else we hear is limited to what some may very selectively mention for promotional purposes, when they know the rest of us have no way of verifying it and comparing it to other information. I would be extremely skeptical about the accuracy and importance of some dubious list of alleged ratings for sports events some blogger claims to have compiled from second and third hand information anonymously passed to him.

I think the fact that MLSE is spending $90 million to expand BMO Field shows they don't seem to be very worried about anything.

[Qman]

only 88k watched the Houston disaster on wednesday

[Pookie]

I think the fact that MLSE is spending $90 million to expand BMO Field shows they don't seem to be very worried about anything.

I see what you did there. You are still assuming they are expanding BMO for all this demand for soccer in Toronto. Soccer and only soccer. 8 years after their own projected market analysis was pegged at 14k per game.

Clearly, this is about more than soccer. Hockey and Grey Cups are the driver.

[FRANKIE65]

I see what you did there. You are still assuming they are expanding BMO for all this demand for soccer in Toronto. Soccer and only soccer. 8 years after their own projected market analysis was pegged at 14k per game.

Clearly, this is about more than soccer. Hockey and Grey Cups are the driver.

Grey cups....ugh....what's more pathetic than a league with 8 teams, where 6 of them make the playoffs?!

[Heepster]

... 8 years after their own projected market analysis was pegged at 14k per game.

And yet they're still going ahead with it -- for those other things that might happen something like once every four or five years?
I don't think expanding the stadium appears to make much sense when it could be argued that it may be slightly too large now, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they must have some reasonably good idea that doing so will not financially ruin MLSE.
Even if the expanded stadium is routinely only half filled for TFC, I suppose they would just close off the west side and have everyone sit on the east side facing the TV cameras (as I already mentioned in another thread).
TFC may never attract huge national TV ratings or crowds larger than the niche type of audience they now have, but I also don't see it suddenly disappearing simply because the stadium will have 8000 more seats.
It's a niche audience, but a relatively stable one, probably the way things would have been all along in Toronto if the NASL had not folded after the 1984 season.

[TFC07]

only 88k watched the Houston disaster on wednesday

Given TFC past ratings and going against Maple Leafs home opener, I would take that rating.

[OgtheDim]

Grey cups....ugh....what's more pathetic than a league with 8 teams, where 6 of them make the playoffs?!

9 - Ottawa came back.

[FRANKIE65]

9 - Ottawa came back.

LOL, I stand corrected. Shows how closely I pay attention to the "three down debacle"

[Pookie]

And yet they're still going ahead with it -- for those other things that might happen something like once every four or five years?
I don't think expanding the stadium appears to make much sense when it could be argued that it may be slightly too large now, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they must have some reasonably good idea that doing so will not financially ruin MLSE.
Even if the expanded stadium is routinely only half filled for TFC, I suppose they would just close off the west side and have everyone sit on the east side facing the TV cameras (as I already mentioned in another thread).
TFC may never attract huge national TV ratings or crowds larger than the niche type of audience they now have, but I also don't see it suddenly disappearing simply because the stadium will have 8000 more seats.
It's a niche audience, but a relatively stable one, probably the way the way things would have been all along in Toronto if the NASL had not folded after the 1984 season.

Oh I agree. They aren't going to disappear. With MLS ownership and SUM profit sharing it virtually guarantees Toronto will have a stadium.

The Winter Classic is going to happen and my guess is that it will become an annual/semi annual thing. 2017 is when the construction is to be done and that is the Leafs' 100th season. That stadium will be used.

The spin from the FO that this is for TFC is pretty insulting intellectually. For the $90M they are spending (plus the welfare they are looking for) they could build their own stadium if it was a priority. This is multi-use being sold to a fan base… that will simply be one of many to use it.

I guess from a City owned perspective, it's fine. Might as well rent it out as often as you can.

I actually think they might get 30,000 for a couple of games. The home opener should sell out. A big name on the visitors might help it sell out. Certainly a well known friendly opponent (ie. United, City, Real Madrid, Barcelona, etc) will help it sell out.

On the whole though, the interest in the team amongst the non-casual fan is what we have seen over the last few months. Here you have a team with Defoe, with Bradley, in a playoff chase and they are lucky to be half full. As you say, that's what the niche really is.

[Supporting]

Oh I agree. They aren't going to disappear. With MLS ownership and SUM profit sharing it virtually guarantees Toronto will have a stadium.

The Winter Classic is going to happen and my guess is that it will become an annual/semi annual thing. 2017 is when the construction is to be done and that is the Leafs' 100th season. That stadium will be used.

The spin from the FO that this is for TFC is pretty insulting intellectually. For the $90M they are spending (plus the welfare they are looking for) they could build their own stadium if it was a priority. This is multi-use being sold to a fan base… that will simply be one of many to use it.

I guess from a City owned perspective, it's fine. Might as well rent it out as often as you can.

I actually think they might get 30,000 for a couple of games. The home opener should sell out. A big name on the visitors might help it sell out. Certainly a well known friendly opponent (ie. United, City, Real Madrid, Barcelona, etc) will help it sell out.

On the whole though, the interest in the team amongst the non-casual fan is what we have seen over the last few months. Here you have a team with Defoe, with Bradley, in a playoff chase and they are lucky to be half full. As you say, that's what the niche really is.

We have sold out every game this year, haven't we?

[shwade]

We have sold out every game this year, haven't we?

The tickets have been sold because people bought into the bloody big deal but the butts in seats have gone down dramatically - people have lost interest and are tired of all the drama.

[Pookie]

The tickets have been sold because people bought into the bloody big deal but the butts in seats have gone down dramatically - people have lost interest and are tired of all the drama.

I'd even question the "tickets have been sold" part. Were they or were they simply holding back tickets to give the appearance of scarcity? Even the early games this year we could buy pairs of tickets every day, including game day, on ticket master.

Clearly, they had some popular games and it was great to see. But if they were "sold out" it was the easiest sold out ticket in town to get right from the box office.

[FRANKIE65]

The tickets have been sold because people bought into the bloody big deal but the butts in seats have gone down dramatically - people have lost interest and are tired of all the drama.

Many of those sold tickets are in the hands of scalpers who figured they could cash in on "The Bloody Big Deal"...they are taking a beating now. Looks good on them too. Hopefully most of them dump their seasons, so, true supporters have the opportunity to use them.
As for lost interest, yeah, the casual "I'm at the game because it is an event" fan is gone.

[TFC07]

I'd even question the "tickets have been sold" part. Were they or were they simply holding back tickets to give the appearance of scarcity? Even the early games this year we could buy pairs of tickets every day, including game day, on ticket master.

Clearly, they had some popular games and it was great to see. But if they were "sold out" it was the easiest sold out ticket in town to get right from the box office.

Most of tickets you see TFC selling are from SSH who couldn't make it to the games so they end up selling their tickets with help of TFC/MLSE and get 52% from sold tickets (MLSE gets rest since they're selling tickets on our behalf). I personally have done it this season and I had no problem selling it.

[TFC07]

Many of those sold tickets are in the hands of scalpers who figured they could cash in on "The Bloody Big Deal"...they are taking a beating now. Looks good on them too. Hopefully most of them dump their seasons, so, true supporters have the opportunity to use them.
As for lost interest, yeah, the casual "I'm at the game because it is an event" fan is gone.

This is big problem with scalpers having some really good and cheaper seats which makes it harder for fans to get those seats unless they're willing to overpay market value. Hopefully those scalpers drop their SST which will give opportunity to real fans to get better and cheaper seats.

[Yohan]

This is big problem with scalpers having some really good and cheaper seats which makes it harder for fans to get those seats unless they're willing to overpay market value. Hopefully those scalpers drop their SST which will give opportunity to real fans to get better and cheaper seats.

with TFC looking to miss playoffs and seat expansion, there will be plenty of tickets available. if I was a scalper, I'd look elsewhere.

[Pookie]

Most of tickets you see TFC selling are from SSH who couldn't make it to the games so they end up selling their tickets with help of TFC/MLSE and get 52% from sold tickets (MLSE gets rest since they're selling tickets on our behalf). I personally have done it this season and I had no problem selling it.

Are you talking about the Ticket Exchange?

[TFC07]

with TFC looking to miss playoffs and seat expansion, there will be plenty of tickets available. if I was a scalper, I'd look elsewhere.

True, but east stand (that's where they're adding 8K seats) is awful to watch soccer especially during the day due to the sun. I am not sure how many people are willing to buy seats there unless ticket prices are cheap.

Are you talking about the Ticket Exchange?

Yeah.

[Supporting]

I'd even question the "tickets have been sold" part. Were they or were they simply holding back tickets to give the appearance of scarcity? Even the early games this year we could buy pairs of tickets every day, including game day, on ticket master.

Clearly, they had some popular games and it was great to see. But if they were "sold out" it was the easiest sold out ticket in town to get right from the box office.

lol you have so many conspiracies. Look at tickermaster for the montreal game, there are probs 100 tickets left max. TFC does do well, or else MLSE wouldn't invest in them. MLS is an expanding market and toronto could easily be like Seattle with regards to attendance.

[OgtheDim]

East stand should be cheaper then the West stand but I get the feeling the bean counters won't see it that way and will tier the east to mirror the West.

[reggie]

lol you have so many conspiracies. Look at tickermaster for the montreal game, there are probs 100 tickets left max. TFC does do well, or else MLSE wouldn't invest in them. MLS is an expanding market and toronto could easily be like Seattle with regards to attendance.

don't bother...he is not even a season ticket holder.talk is cheap

[Pookie]

.talk is cheap

… but supporting TFC outside of yellows and light greys isn't.

[Pookie]

lol you have so many conspiracies. Look at tickermaster for the montreal game, there are probs 100 tickets left max. TFC does do well, or else MLSE wouldn't invest in them. MLS is an expanding market and toronto could easily be like Seattle with regards to attendance.

MLS/SUM marketing does well, that's why MLSE invests in it.

100 tickets left? Ok, then.

[TFC07]

East stand should be cheaper then the West stand but I get the feeling the bean counters won't see it that way and will tier the east to mirror the West.

Well on TV, it looks really bad. If I am MLSE, I would rather have east stand packed than west stand since camera is facing towards east stand. Now they're adding more seats on east stand which only makes it harder to pack east stand. So MLSE (especially if TFC doesn't make it to the playoffs) better not price out fanbase and reduce their ticket prices especially seats in the east and north stand.

[reggie]

all kidding aside Pookie...I agree the pricing is way out of wack.

[Pookie]

all kidding aside Pookie...I agree the pricing is way out of wack.

All good. I really hope that they accept the idea that a lower price will bring a higher volume. Particularly now that they have a higher volume of seats.

It really is a grass roots support not a corporate one. The fact that long standing ticket holders generally tend to move to cheaper sections whenever they can should tell them something.

If those that argue that it really is sold out are right, then there is no hope for reasonable prices. Prices will go up the moment they win.

I don't see the demand (not in the primary market, not in the secondary market and not in the TV market) so I hold out hope they will have to lower prices across the stadium. And I think if they do that, they will get a young, boisterous and much fuller crowd.

[dupont]

I don't see the demand (not in the primary market, not in the secondary market and not in the TV market) so I hold out hope they will have to lower prices across the stadium. And I think if they do that, they will get a young, boisterous and much fuller crowd.

Cheap tickets shouldn't even bother them since most people there are buying lots of beers. So the money is still there for cheaper seats because of that.

[OgtheDim]

Well on TV, it looks really bad. If I am MLSE, I would rather have east stand packed than west stand since camera is facing towards east stand. Now they're adding more seats on east stand which only makes it harder to pack east stand. So MLSE (especially if TFC doesn't make it to the playoffs) better not price out fanbase and reduce their ticket prices especially seats in the east and north stand.

If they were smart, they'd make the whole upper east side the price of light greys except for the two middle sections which would be medium grey. That would sell and probably not canabalise the west end too much. Not going to happen. Thinking beyond symmetry is unlikely.