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  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonso View Post
    18% of US households are cord cutters, Canada is quickly following suit.

    TV ratings are irrelevant when you can't account for 18% of the population and what they are watching.

    That's all the logic I need.

    But I was agreeing with you, maybe you didn't notice.

    No one is watching MLS. It's pretty clear.
    Thats why the rating companies use PPMs now. The beepers catch what you watching even when your walking at the mall, watching at a bar, at the computer, etc.

  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qman View Post
    Thats why the rating companies use PPMs now. The beepers catch what you watching even when your walking at the mall, watching at a bar, at the computer, etc.

    I didn't know, what's a PPM, and how can it work through my computer?

  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    ^ what he said.

    While on the topic of cord cutting though, I am curious to see from those that have done it... Legally... if there is in fact any savings at all?

    I want all my live sporting events. From EPL to TFC, from NHL to MLB to NFL to the odd CFL to golf to NCAA football and basketball to less known things like triathlon and track and field.

    To upgrade modems and increase data plans and key into those events my spreadsheet doesn't show any savings at all.

    Is there another way... Legally?
    First, you can't get everything you list legally. Not an option even if you wanted to pay for it. I can only comment on soccer as that is the only thing I watch for sports, but there are two legal options. For TFC, you have MLS live. Lots of games are blacked out, so you would have to be content with watching those 48 hours later. For EPL, Sportsnetworld Online is your only option. You get all the EPL games on Sportsnet, but none of the ones on TSN. So if you care about picking and choosing the games to watch (or following a specific team), it is lacking. I primarily want to watch Man Utd games, I'd guess I got about half of them on SNWO last year.

    Other sports may be available with an OTA antenna, but a lot of that is location dependent. CBC is pretty easy to get though.

    As far as cost savings, if you are willing to live with the lack of content, the savings are there. I don't have the exact numbers, but to get setup with HD (non-PVR) and the packages you would need to get all the sports you want I think it was on the order of $80-100/month. This factors in the ~ $20.00/month for the Sportsnet World/360/whatever it is called now to get all the EPL games.

    My current costs,
    $7.99 for Netfilx.
    $40.00/year for MLS live
    One time cost of $50.00 for a good quality OTA antenna.
    SNWO was around $20.00/month, for the package with FA Cup and Champions league.


    I switched my Internet from Rogers to Teksavvy. Intital setup costs were around $200.00 if I recall, but I am paying less per month now than I was with Rogers, with a bandwith cap that is more than high enough for streaming needs. It's faster than Rogers as well.

    Also - for OTA - your mileage is going to vary a lot based on location. If you have a clear line of site to the CN tower, it's great. If not, it's not so great. I can't see the CN tower and I don't get a lot (reliably)

  4. #424
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    I cut my cord with Rogers, as much as I could, a few years ago. Went to Teksavvy internet for 5 times the bandwidth for the same cost as Rogers and less onerous charges if I happen to blow over my limit (extremely rare for me).
    Rogers threatened me with cancellation charges at the time which hastened my dropping of cable TV. I looked at Digitalhome.ca for assistance and their Over The Air (OTA) forum was great!
    Used TVFool.com to get a good idea of what OTA signals were available at my postal code and never looked back.

    I was satisfied with streaming football games live via ATDHE and FirstRowSports but missed the availability of being able to watch games after the fact and so stayed with Sportsnet World on-line.

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonso View Post
    I didn't know, what's a PPM, and how can it work through my computer?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_People_Meter

    How does this work?

  6. #426
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    The signal the PPM picks up is only embedded in canadian channels. So if a PPM user is watching a US feed, it won't pick up shit. There is a few thousand PPM users picked randomly in canada. They are required to have it on all the time and are monitored. For example, say you are at the gym and leave it in your gym bag, your get a call from the ratings company that night or next day saying they didn't get a signal for 45mins. Also, if you watch a PVR'd broadcast of a game 6 days later. This also is reflected in the ratings now.

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    There are lots of Leiweke whoppers about this out there.

    I know something about the sports sponsorship business, I see who the sponsors are this year vs last (essentially unchanged), and I say Leiweke is making it up.

    The only time we have ever seen an actual number disclosedwas for Portland in 2010, as part of their expansion bid package. Maybe someone else has the link. Portland's total sponsorship revenues were around $3M

    Teams lie about attendance, about wait lists, about sponsorships. They just do.

    The rest of your calculation, cmon, there have been a few thousand Defoe jerseys sold tops. Probably less. Calling that line item $4-5M incremental revenue is a joke.
    http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/J...n-Jerseys.aspx

    The bank and Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment, which owns Toronto FC, agreed to a five-year extension that industry sources valued at more than $4 million annually.
    http://www.thestar.com/business/2012...ps_losing.html

    the stadium’s naming rights to Bank of Montreal for a reported $27 million (over 10 years)
    so BMO is paying at least $6.7M a year...maybe Portland isn't a strong sponsorship market or their reported number is wrong...there could also be the US-Canadian dollar difference (minimal) to consider.
    as for new sponsors...not sure you noticed how everything is branded from the projected starting XI (new) to the inactive player list (new)

  8. #428
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    I see at least 10 to 15 new sponsors this season,but what do I know,im jus a fan who wants to see a winning team and to be entertained,numbers blah blah blah...talk to me in 10 yrs

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    Quote Originally Posted by prizby View Post
    http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/J...n-Jerseys.aspx



    http://www.thestar.com/business/2012...ps_losing.html



    so BMO is paying at least $6.7M a year...maybe Portland isn't a strong sponsorship market or their reported number is wrong...there could also be the US-Canadian dollar difference (minimal) to consider.
    as for new sponsors...not sure you noticed how everything is branded from the projected starting XI (new) to the inactive player list (new)
    Hang on. We're talking about how much Leiweke increased sponsorships, not what they are.

    He can claim he increased them $3M in the offseason all he wants, I don't believe that is credible. Most secondary sponsorship deals (ie not jersey or stadium) for a team of this stature would be in the $50-100K range (and some would be less).
    Last edited by ensco; 08-11-2014 at 09:39 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie View Post
    numbers blah blah blah...talk to me in 10 yrs
    It's not the numbers per se, it's that our team owners are always inventing this, instead of doing what has worked before. When you invent a model that depends on the big pocketbook, you have to wonder what happens if the pocketbook goes away.

    But you have a point.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  11. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Hang on. We're talking about how much Leiweke increased sponsorships, not what they are.

    He can claim he increased them $3M in the offseason all he wants, I don't believe that is credible. Most secondary sponsorship deals (ie not jersey or stadium) for a team of this stature would be in the $50-100K range (and some would be less).
    sorry, I didn't pick up on that...you had quoted this part at the end, which was a summary of all sponsorships:

    so $3M new with $4-5M on kit + $2.7M on stadium + old sponsors + KIA Academy...It is not far fetched to think we are $10M + actually
    My general point really was that we have somewhere in the ball park of $10M in sponsorship type of money...there is a grey (or is it gray?) area; most sponsors get a suite out of their deal and some 'sponsors' also have their hands in other baskets; ie. Budweiser/Coke

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    tfc match doesn't make top 15 rated sports programs. So, at least less than 91k. But women's football with post game getting higher ratings - likely due to shorter length and comeback victory that many probably missed in part or in whole. Whitecaps in a good Sunday slot is #12.

    Here are the most-watched English-language sports events on Canadian television the past weekend, according to BBM Canada overnight ratings:
    1. MLB, Tigers at Blue Jays, Sunday, Sportsnet: 753,000
    2. MLB, Tigers at Blue Jays, Friday, Sportsnet: 671,000
    3. MLB, Tigers at Blue Jays, Saturday, Sportsnet: 584,000
    4. CFL, Ticats at Lions, Friday, TSN: 576,000
    5. CFL, RedBlacks at Stampeders, Saturday, TSN: 484,000
    6. CFL, Eskimos at Alouettes, Friday, TSN: 454,000
    7. Soccer, Women's under-20 World Cup post-game, Friday, CBC: 428,000
    8. PGA, PGA Championship final round, Sunday, TSN: 375,000 (CBS audience not measured)
    9. PGA, PGA Championship third round, Saturday, TSN: 288,000 (CBS audience not measured)
    10. Soccer, Women's under-20 World Cup, Canada vs. Finland, Friday, CBC: 265,000
    11. PGA, PGA Championship second round, Friday, TSN: 255,000
    12. MLS, Sporting KC at Whitecaps, Sunday, TSN: 208,000
    13. Tennis, Rogers Cup finals, Sunday, CBC: 178,000
    14. Tennis, Rogers Cup semifinals (afternoon), Saturday, CBC: 148,000
    15. Tennis, Rogers Cup semifinals (evening), Saturday, CBC: 133,000
    16. Tennis, Rogers Cup quarterfinals, Friday, Sportsnet360: 91,000

  13. #433
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    Highest rating for a channel other than CBC, TSN or Sportsnet was #16 on Sportsnet 360. TFC might've got better numbers if it was on a main network following the all star game and win in Montreal which was decently viewed. If the next game isnt on TSN or Sportsnet then the numbers will continue to be sad as they are with any sport event on 360 or TSN2.

  14. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoop View Post
    Yeah, you can't really "pretty up" TFC's numbers. I mean I doubt 100,000+ have been streaming TFC matches.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe VWFC are actually outdrawing TFC on television this year. If I were Leiweke, that's what would trouble me considering we have a much larger market.

    Then again, you can't just expect to wash away all the futility and damage done in half a season. It's going to take time to win people back, be it in the stands or on the field. We're just lucky that we have a strong market. Had MLSE tried that crap elsewhere it would have been fatal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe VWFC are actually outdrawing TFC on television this year. If I were Leiweke, that's what would trouble me considering we have a much larger market.

    Then again, you can't just expect to wash away all the futility and damage done in half a season. It's going to take time to win people back, be it in the stands or on the field. We're just lucky that we have a strong market. Had MLSE tried that crap elsewhere it would have been fatal.
    Vancouver was one of the stronger NASL markets and the club stuck around (through thick and thin) for the last 30 years on one form or another. It has a strong following because of that. Similar to Seattle and Portland.

  16. #436
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    They might play it as that but the presence in the market prior to launch was not great. Montreal was probably stronger from a USL perspective but they would also trail Vancouver for ratings.

  17. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qman View Post
    Vancouver was one of the stronger NASL markets and the club stuck around (through thick and thin) for the last 30 years on one form or another. It has a strong following because of that. Similar to Seattle and Portland.
    Does Vancouver sell out their stadium every game? Doesn't it look half empty most of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr k View Post
    tfc match doesn't make top 15 rated sports programs. So, at least less than 91k. But women's football with post game getting higher ratings - likely due to shorter length and comeback victory that many probably missed in part or in whole. Whitecaps in a good Sunday slot is #12.

    Here are the most-watched English-language sports events on Canadian television the past weekend, according to BBM Canada overnight ratings:
    1. MLB, Tigers at Blue Jays, Sunday, Sportsnet: 753,000
    2. MLB, Tigers at Blue Jays, Friday, Sportsnet: 671,000
    3. MLB, Tigers at Blue Jays, Saturday, Sportsnet: 584,000
    4. CFL, Ticats at Lions, Friday, TSN: 576,000
    5. CFL, RedBlacks at Stampeders, Saturday, TSN: 484,000
    6. CFL, Eskimos at Alouettes, Friday, TSN: 454,000
    7. Soccer, Women's under-20 World Cup post-game, Friday, CBC: 428,000
    8. PGA, PGA Championship final round, Sunday, TSN: 375,000 (CBS audience not measured)
    9. PGA, PGA Championship third round, Saturday, TSN: 288,000 (CBS audience not measured)
    10. Soccer, Women's under-20 World Cup, Canada vs. Finland, Friday, CBC: 265,000
    11. PGA, PGA Championship second round, Friday, TSN: 255,000
    12. MLS, Sporting KC at Whitecaps, Sunday, TSN: 208,000
    13. Tennis, Rogers Cup finals, Sunday, CBC: 178,000
    14. Tennis, Rogers Cup semifinals (afternoon), Saturday, CBC: 148,000
    15. Tennis, Rogers Cup semifinals (evening), Saturday, CBC: 133,000
    16. Tennis, Rogers Cup quarterfinals, Friday, Sportsnet360: 91,000
    how is the whitecaps game measured because at KO time on TSN, the PGA Championship was on; if they are just saying TSN; were they only measuring TSN's numbers from 8pm on or did they combine tsn2 and tsn???

  19. #439
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    TFC TV numbers are low due to playing on secondary channels. They're facing exact same problems as Raptors were last season where their ratings were all over the place, but eventually playoff time, Raptors ratings double or triple and almost average close one million viewers by end of their playoff run. All Raptors playoff games were on TSN main network.

    Last game was on Sportsnet 360, right? If so, then how can you except to get good TV ratings and build your brand?

    Also keep in mind that Bell is major sponsor of Vancouver Whitecaps. If anyone watches TSN regularly will tell you that TSN/Bell advertise Vancouver way more than TFC and Montreal. This is also why you see a lot more Vancouver games on TSN main network than TFC and Montreal combined.

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    Umm....Bell is a also a part owner of TFC.

    Are you saying Bell is pushing a non-owned product on TSN due to the shirts and seeable on TV sponsership over one of their own divisions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Umm....Bell is a also a part owner of TFC.

    Are you saying Bell is pushing a non-owned product on TSN due to the shirts and seeable on TV sponsership over one of their own divisions?
    Bell is more silent partner than anything else when comes MLSE (bit of complicated relationship between Rogers and Bell). Plus, Bell invested in a lot of money into Vancouver through sponsorship deals and regional TV deals. They have invested interest in Whitecaps to succeed.

    I think being sponsor by Rogers hurt us a bit. But if Rogers decides to bid on MLS Canadian national rights and wins, then we will benefit more than TSN/Bell owning next MLS Canadian TV rights.

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    The CAN/FIN Post game had double the viewers than the actual game?

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    I really wish the games were back on CBC. Exposure to a national audience and so much better than either TSN or Sportsnet who throw it on the secondary channels that you have to pay extra for.

    I've been stuck watching the majority of games through MLS Live because of this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan View Post
    The CAN/FIN Post game had double the viewers than the actual game?
    I guess exciting end of the game boost post-game show ratings up.

  25. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by barticusz View Post
    I really wish the games were back on CBC. Exposure to a national audience and so much better than either TSN or Sportsnet who throw it on the secondary channels that you have to pay extra for.

    I've been stuck watching the majority of games through MLS Live because of this.
    Agreed, but sadly, CBC is out sports TV business now.

    It's going to get worst that TSN is going add three more channels (TSN3, TSN4 and TSN5) in the fall. So except more the same in the future.

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    CBC is not doing sports again ever, by the looks of things. Their sports department is basically becoming a division of the news. No live coverage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by prizby View Post
    how is the whitecaps game measured because at KO time on TSN, the PGA Championship was on; if they are just saying TSN; were they only measuring TSN's numbers from 8pm on or did they combine tsn2 and tsn???
    Really good point. I thought it was a pretty high number for them. they are usually in 125ish range.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Umm....Bell is a also a part owner of TFC.

    Are you saying Bell is pushing a non-owned product on TSN due to the shirts and seeable on TV sponsership over one of their own divisions?
    funny that you say that ... kind of appears like it is.
    I think its more that Vancouver will move its games around the CFL schedule so they get on the main network.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qman View Post
    funny that you say that ... kind of appears like it is.
    I think its more that Vancouver will move its games around the CFL schedule so they get on the main network.
    Also, Vancouver's local games are on TSN too. Not just the national package. Don't know why TFC allows them to be seen in toronto.

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    how much does an mls team get for each tv viewer watching their games? and would colubus split the money with toronto for the last game?

 

 

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