Well since you asked. I think we need to improve our service to our strikers. Gilberto has been given very few good opportunities. I think Dero is good for 15 minutes at the most. I also agree with you that we need to improve possession a bit but I think it will come with familiarity. We also need another midfielder and a backup striker. That's all I have to add.Originally Posted by Pookie
i got 4 words, as my apres win post.
EAT IT BILL ARCHER.
Love
NORB
NOTICE: Wager with STB: OVER 2 shots on goal in the First half wins a Pint at HT.
Yes apparently the "system" won the game yesterday. The players were irrelevant to the outcome -they will be dissapointed to know that. The new players Orr and Haglund will be asking for 4-1-5 system next week so that they can show their true worth!
I agree with most of your post.
Wanted to pull out the above section though as I think is worthy of a discussion.
Why is this road vs home mentality so prevalent in soccer? Specifically the MLS?
As a fan base we have been conditioned to believe that a draw on the road is a good result. Commentators say that all the time.
Maybe, if you are playing in front of 70,000 hostile fans in countries where bags of urine are thrown at you or your team bus is attacked then I get that you may alter your style of play.
But the MLS? Come on. Most stadiums are not sold out. Even if they are is the "we love you, we love you, we love you, and where you go we follow, we follow, we follow cause we support (Insert team name here).... " chant really that intimidating that it makes you alter your style of play?
The only place that I could see feeling like a deer in the headlights would be Seattle with Portland a close second.
To me this road result crap is a self fulfilling prophecy. Especially in MLS. Teams play for the draw because they think its the way to do it and they typically have poorer road records as a result.
Do baseball teams play to get into extra innings on the road? Hockey teams play for the tie to get into OT? Football teams give up points on the road? Nope. They go to win.
Makes no sense to me when we think about the MLS.
Hahahaha.
And lest we forget that Hagglund and Orr are not much better than Cann and Atakora.hahaha. Maybe they were watching the game at the Basso residence with Sandro L and Robbie F??? Lol
@Pookie, I agree with everything in that post regarding poor expectations going into a road game. Like you said "self-fulfilling prophecy". It's ok to lose as we weren't supposed to win because we are on the road. I can see in other sports like hockey and basketball where you can end up playing 5 road games in less than 2 weeks, three time zones away, going from city to city in that span. I guess, for MLS, if you play one road game on one Saturday, a home game midweek and then another road game the following Saturday, maybe the traveling around will affect the players. But yesterday came a week after the previous game.
No one said that. But TFC haven't been terribly outshot so far. Their Total Shot Ratio (basically the Corsi of football) through the first three games is middle of the pack. Their shots on target and shots in the box ratio is top 3 (again, not including the Columbus game). Check out this link for more advanced stats.
The lack of possession is definitely troubling. But TFC have done a good job creating chances considering all the new faces and the tough schedule to start the season.
We all know Pookie has a point. There are definitely some issues.
Nobody really knows what this team is yet. 4 games is not enough. There were a lot of people here who thought Montreal's entire first half last year was a fluke, and they were mostly proven right.
But man it feels good to be figuring out the issues with some points in the bank. Wins are tough to get in this league. Look at NY-Mtl and Portland-Seattle yesterday.
Last edited by ensco; 04-06-2014 at 09:30 AM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
It might not make sense to you, but it is still very much a factor in this league nonetheless. The visiting teams in MLS have historically compiled an abysmal record. I believe the collective winning percentage is under 25%.
Dont forget the travel, time zones and hotel food. That what separates MLS from other footy leagues.
I've always been baffled by it. Especially because it's the only sport where you get 3 pts for a win, making a tie even less valuable. So you need 3 tie's to equal 1 win. With that math i'll go for the win every game....unless you're riddled with injuries or playing a far superior team (Barcelona).
Yes. The record is there.
But is the record there because playing on the road in MLS is tougher or as I said before do expectations become a self fulfilling prophecy?
Time zones aren't that much of a factor given east vs west travel. For example, TFC only have one more game on the West Coast. And if time zones were the factor, travelling back home across time zones would have a similar effect in the next game.
To me, the road record is there because the expectations are low. Team leaders come from cultures were "road result" is drilled into them. Teams play to expectations.
Don't read too much into the first few games.
last season through the first 7 games:
Seattle had 6 points. (Playoffs)
RSL had 8 points (MLS cup finals)
NY had 8 Points (Supports Shield)
FC Dallas had 16 points (DNQ)
In fact half the teams that went to the playoffs had fewer then 9 points by the end of 7 games.
In 2012:
LA lost 3 of hits first 4 games and won the Cup.
Seattle and SJ has identical starts over 11 games,
SJ won the SS 10 full points a head of Seattle.
It really is a season performance that matters. Early season form is less important and really isn't a indicator of mid season performance.
Pookie is right there a serious issues on the field right now, bad passes and the such poor awareness of other players (particularly on the attack)
Mid season Columbus would have picked up 3 goals from the mistakes we made last night. Cross Bar hit at the end, and two through balls in the box all just required a little more form and those were all goals.
There are good signs We are attacking, we are fighting, we are maintaining our formation. Of course I think Mid-Season TFC scores a few more times.
Toronto FC as Ryan Nelsen has very honestly been saying is a work in progress.
When I like about "Nelly" is that he is fairly honest and fairly realistic about where the team is, even is some supporters and media aren't.
We have "supporters" here that think we are going to implode at any second because Jackson is bad. Or Urrti would be better because Gilberto hasn't scored yet, even though he didn't really have a pre season, isn't fully match fit, and the team is still adjusting to his needs. After a bad game it's "same old TFC"
The reality is.. All the players are still learning each other as so many of them are new. People said it would take a long while for the team to gel, and others responded to that by saying good players should still get results.
Well these players are still getting results, and they are still Gelling which is being aggravated by a lot of injuries. (which is worry some)
That is a positive. Lets wait and see what happens. Right now we are getting results, lets enjoy that, and hope that their form improves while acknowledging that it does have room to. Rather then spouting off all this doom and gloom stuff.
Last edited by Kaz; 04-06-2014 at 09:53 AM.
sorry.......can't agree here . Seems very dismissive . Hagglund will be a centre piece of the future along with Henry...they're young, growing and North American , at that . Orr yes simply used all of his knowledge to scrape out a hell of a game , rose above himself I'd say . The love for Attakora was, say the least, hilarious . These two newbies are a new breed full of knowledge and raw talent and with the coaching of Nelson can be defensive superstars in MLS . ...........Like goalies , they will mature and only get better .
ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana
I'm guessing here, but I think knowing the pitch is a big part of it. in Hockey the Ice surface isn't going to be a huge factor (unless you are in Russia and it's the 3rd period) In Baseball the park isn't' always the same size but you are still hitting a ball and running in the dirt.
American Football the Ball is played in the air, and I don't think altitude is going to effect the air enough to have significant enough effect on ball dynamics to change the out come too much.
In Soccer the Pitch is a major player. If you play on it and train on it, you will know the best way to use it. Visiting teams don't have the same knowledge of the pitch as home teams.
Type of Grass, length of the grass, condition of the grass, where are the patchy parts, what are the light conditions like and how do you deal with it. How strong is the wind going to be, Width of the pitch. All of these factors give the home side a small advantage.
I do think it is over played, and the mentality that it is hard to play away leads to extra mistakes. I have to think that was part of the loss in Salt Lake, which was just a bad performance.
I think some of you are over-analyzing this simple game of football.
I'm enjoying the moment,don't give a fU*k about tactic,system,are we winning ugly or not,I'm not paid by ML$E to run this club and the ones who are should think where and how we can improve this team.
I, as TFC supporter like the fact that we have 9 points after 4 games,away or home who gives a damn,I come on this site after 2nd away win and find all these posts with nothing else but concerns what future might bring,fu*k what future might look like,enjoy while you can, it took us 8 years to be in this kind of situation,don't piss on it now.
ENJOY THE MOMENT
brilliant...........and refreshing
ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana
you guys miss the point. They are on the same team AND together our brilliant future, as draft picks stabilizing our future . Together !
ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana
hahahah. It is hard to believe that I make a great living writing legal memorandums.
Ratings
Cesar: 6
-Did what he needed to do, though I didn't think he was tested much, except for that last Columbus shot off the pos.
Bloom: 6.5
-Good performance from Bloom who was decent defensively, but offensively excellent. Showed that he was very comfortable with making short passes with his left foot. Come to think of it, both Morrow and Bloom are pretty good with their weaker foot.
Orr: 6.5
-Warrior performance. Picked up a knock around 60 min mark, but played it out. His experience was critical. Was good organizing the defence, and may have shown that he can be useful as 3rd CB with TFC, at least this season. (b/c Bloom has lock on RB IMO)
Hagglund: 6.5
-Good outing for the rookie, who was not afraid to get stuck in. Used his athleticism to good effect, complimenting wily Orr as partner. He was very vocal too, which is good to see for a rookie.
Morrow: 7 (MoM)
-Better 1st half than 2nd half, but he turned left side of the pitch into a sinkhole for Columbus offence. Excellent positioning and anticipation cut out a lot of Columbus attack. Got an assist, but he also had quite a few turnovers, which negated a lot of good work he did defensively.
Jackson: 6.5
-I wish I can give him a higher rating, because he was everywhere defensively, forcing turnovers. Was totally gassed out at the end of the game. Offensively, he showed he has an idea what he should do and got into decent positions, but his execution was poor, coughing up the ball over.
Bradley: 7
-Excellent first half where he did what he does, which is dominating the midfield. Then he gassed out in 2nd half, and wasn't as effective. Still, his anticipation is phenomenal, and opposition has hard time working the ball through the centre. He probably didn't win many fans celebrating in front of Crew supporters after his goal, even if he's high on adrenaline. (Celebrating in front of opposition supporters is rude)
Bekker: 6
-Decent outing for Bekker. When he tried to be complicated, he lost the ball. When he kept things simple, he did well. Was surprisingly good defensively. Promising game for Bekker, who will need to show this kind of discipline if he wants to be 3rd CM.
Rey: 5
-Another poor game for Rey who couldn't get anything going. He did put in a lot of work defensively, but gassed out again, which is a worrisome that Rey may never be a 90min player under Nelsen's system.
Gilberto: 6.5
-Bit of unlucky game for Gilberto who put in a tremendous work defensively, and deserved to get a goal for his effort. I liked what he showed in hold up play, linking up with midfield, dropping deep and willing to work hard. His goals will come.
De Rosario: 5
-Poor game for DeRo again, other than 2 shots early in the game, he really couldn't get anything going. His lack of pace is really showing now.
Nelsen: 8
-The key difference between RSL and Columbus is that Columbus has much weaker midfield, and their game plan was relying on Higuain to spring Oduro and his pace to get behind TFC defence. Also to use Trapp and Higuain to hold up the ball enough for FBs Williams and Francis to flood TFC midfield. Both were easily contained by TFC.
-I thought a bit of different tactics, with Bekker primarily focused on defence and not getting caught (partially due to his lack of athleticism) with Bradley in a box to box role. The strikers were using a pulley system, with both DeRo and Gilberto willing to drop deep offensively and defensively, which caught Crew bit off guard.
-The disciplined high pressure system, combined with Bradley dominating the centre disrupted Columbus attack, causing a lot of turnovers. There were couple of instances when TFC almost cut out a pass from either Clark or the CBs, which would have led to 1v1 against Clark.
-Higuain was negated because he didn't get the ball in good positions in the centre, and if he did, he was immediately swarmed. TFC kept shape defensively, despite Higuain moving all over the pitch and normally pulling defenders out of position through good communication. Columbus played 3 in the middle, but TFC strikers willingness to help out defensively meant 2 CMs can mark out Higuain, with help. (Higuain also had an off game, which helped, esp on set pieces)
-Because the centre was denied for attack, Columbus increasingly relied on attacking through the flanks, which was hard due to good work by Morrow and Jackson especially. Any crosses were easily gobbled up by Orr and Hagglund working in tandem, and also from a set and stable position, not caught in transition. Also, Oduro isn't good in the air. He's most effective when fed with throughballs for him to run on to. Arrieta would have been a better striker if Columbus went for more direct approach.
-Will Trapp was stuck trying to shield Columbus CB too deep, due to Toronto's threat on counters and Columbus turning the ball over too much. He is generally the guy who starts first pass for Columbus attack, and not so effective when dropped too deep.
-TFC created a lot of promising opportunities on transition, but I think it's just needing more teamwork and chemistry. Still scored 2 goals away, which is good.
-Both TFC fullbacks were mindful of their defensive duties, but still pushed forward whenever they can, instead of bunkering. (Morrow's assist on Issey's goal, Gilberto hitting the post off of Bloom's short pass)
-In short, pretty much a carbon copy of tactics vs Seattle, but Nelsen was able to impose his tactics on Berhalter's, while Berhalter was not able to adjust. Columbus really isn't good enough outside Higuain and couple of other players.
-A couple of different bounces during the scrambles meant Columbus goal, but I thought Columbus was largely ineffective on attack, while TFC was very disciplined defensively for a solid away game.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Berhalter said afterwards that TFC won because they had a good plan. Which basically says that Berhalter didn't respond effectively.
and Columbus admitted that they didn't take TFC seriously coming into this game.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Right on Denime!I think some of you are over-analyzing this simple game of football.
I'm enjoying the moment,don't give a fU*k about tactic,system,are we winning ugly or not,I'm not paid by ML$E to run this club and the ones who are should think where and how we can improve this team.
I, as TFC supporter like the fact that we have 9 points after 4 games,away or home who gives a damn,I come on this site after 2nd away win and find all these posts with nothing else but concerns what future might bring,fu*k what future might look like,enjoy while you can, it took us 8 years to be in this kind of situation,don't piss on it now.
ENJOY THE MOMENT
I get it that it is hard to be optimistic, given the beatings we have received the last many years from Anselmi, Bierne, Cochrane, Mo + Mariner. It is also dead easy to pick apart some decent wins that NOBODY counted on in the early going. The team is not near its potential yet, but nobody really expects that now.
The hard part (for me) is mixing in post game negative pickiness with rejoicing over incredible wins and an amazing, fantastic start to the season. To top it off - the games do not look like flukes either!
I don't mind analysis on our weaknesses, places to improve, worries about the future etc... Couldn't we just put that in some other thread? Maybe just for 24 hours after a win?Perhaps we could start a PUD thread (Pickiness, Ugly and Depression)? Or start the next game thread immediately post game for analysis of improvement prior to next game? I dunno - I just want to wallow and savor in this place we are in - it has been a long time coming... I don't need fugly...
The TFC Pessimistic thread
V
The TFC Optimistic thread
personally, i can't find fault with a single thing in yesterday's away win ... it was fuckin awesome, had a smile on my face the whole game (well, except a few nervous moments late). it was beautiful football in my eyes, we scored early, stuck in, held tight, pushed when we could, no major errors. hell, we even had some nice build up play going at times. great individual performances from every position, total team win, full of heart. if i had to criticize one thing it might be the lack of team finishing in attacking area.
this team is certainly showing signs of strong character.
Ahem, I do believe I said this at the beginning of the week:Awesome. This reaction from the players and Nelsen after the RSL match is a big step. The subs really stepped in and did a good job. Jackson has been a beast defensively and Hagglund and Orr were impressive. Overall, I'm ecstatic to be 3-1 on the season so far.
Which of you will lie to me and say you expected this?
omg this is hysterical
I think he meant being 3-1 to start the season? Which i would then take credit for
Actually I would have guessed something like that.
Don't change a thing!
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
Ha pretty much sums up the last 3 pages I just read
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Great love does not exist without joy and without great suffering ,that's why One club is worth only as much as its fans !