RSL is a fun team to watch. Glad they put us in our place. Time to learn from this and move on. The positives:
+ we had our chances
+ bekker looked alright
+ farran looks like he'll fill the wing depth much better than lambe ever could.
the negatives:
- bring back the replacement refs.
- hall..
- pressing and lack of chemistry left us wide open.
Sadly I expect another loss against the crew next week, but this was a tough start and going 2-2 would be a=ok with me.
Lack of depth is the big issue for TFC. Only 1 players has scored this season... Bradley &/or Osraio out & we don't have a midlfield. We don't have any quality on the wings.
not much been said about our 3rd DP... Gilberto hasn't shown anything so far. Has he offered any benefit over Laba? I hope he comes goood...but its a big question mark at this point,
Moderator
Ugh. What an ugly fucking game that was. I knew RSL was gonna be tough, but I never would have expected a blow-out like this.
I kinda want to talk about it, but I kinda also want to never speak of it again and just look toward the match against Columbus.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
Settled side that has a physical and athletic presence through out the spine along with creativity and one touch passing that create sustained pressure. RSL is a great model for any rebuilding MLS side.Originally Posted by ExiledRed
sensible thread ,....as well Bekker surprised me , he came on and made some nice up the middle break out passes a la Bradley , seemed to keep with in himself . Also Issey has to start. He streched out the defense with some nice runs and passes . Hall simply gave away the majority of balls and felt had zero sense of how to fit in with Bradley . The penalty was Sabborio? grabbing and spinning Henry then diving , Henry simply has realize that move and back-off . But I'll take that heart and FU attitude any day , he never gave up. He doesn't want to lose ! His haters crack me up . Everyone didn't know how to react tonight . Remember we have a very weak bench . we're going to have to learn to play like a team .
ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana
given the scoreline, I am surprised how many times TFC had a decent chance on goal. I fully expected them to lose but not 3-0. So it was worse than I was expecting but not really worrying at all in some other ways. They definitely didn't look like the incompetent team of years past, even when losing a game 3-0.
Next time we play RSL we beat them. To much reading into this one. We were just off, but we did miss Osario, Bradley had to play up to much which fucked up our shape.
If we do not bounce back against Columbus I would be worried. But right now, I am not panicking I saw a team that was just a bit off, disjointed, something that can happen in early season. I am not panicking, And who ever said " I am glad RSL put us in our place should be banned.
Depth is an issue. We noticed all the absences from previous weeks.
3-0 is harsh. But Mou once said better to lose one game 6-0 then 6 games 1-0. Lets beat Colombus and it will all be good.
Last edited by trane; 03-30-2014 at 02:59 AM.
We haven't used the draft well. If you think about it, most of our players come to us from trades,waivers or re entry draft. Trading means getting the better of the other GM. Waivers and re entry means getting other teams' cast off.
The academy has been hyped more than BMOs new roof but it isn't producing a flood of new players. That leaves the Superdraft. We have generally traded away picks.
It's that simple.
Last edited by Pookie; 03-30-2014 at 06:53 AM.
TFC has had a really tough schedule thus far and done pretty well. RSL and Seattle away will be two tough games and Columbus has been very good this year as well. Nelsen had better learn to adjust tactically though. 4-4-2 is not often going to work away. Unfortunately, some bad decisions from last year (the Silva trade, the draft) may hurt the team all year as they struggle with depth. Signing O'Rourke would be a good start.
Yeah. Hopefully.
So, just to recap. The guy who missed a sh*t ton of games in Tottenham and still injured when he was signed was feeling the same injury before the game and yet he still played game 3 of a 34 game season?
How much pressure is on TFC's locker room to force that decision? Are we riding the horses till they fall down? Can't wait to see what happens when the schedule gets congested if a player feeling a recurring injury can't be given a rest.
Related note to Nelsen: You may need to rework the "Hoof it to the Forwards" game plan if sorry WHEN this guy goes down.
Not exactly the full picture.Kurtis Larson @KurtLarSUN 1m Nelsen on lacking possession: "We had 15 attempts on goal. Just as many as they had. Our chances were good."
RSL had 17, TFC had 15 so that's kind of true.
Only 3 of those shots came in the first half. 11 came when RSL took their foot off the pedal when they were up by 3 goals.
How about football experience? Do you have any of that?John Molinaro @JohnMolinaro 3m
Nelsen: "We don't have much MLS experience. ... We have a big target on our back. Players have to experience this." #TFC
Sure. Not sure why the justification has to happen now.Kurtis Larson @KurtLarSUN 4m
Nelsen on expectations: "If you'd offered me six points from first three games I'd have taken it."
Oh wait, that's right. Tim L promised playoffs so I guess the justification will have to happen after every loss. Particularly embarrassing ones like this.
Media doesn't help with Larson saying that MLS teams that start 2-0-0 have a 79.9% chance of making the playoffs. Honestly, is this wise?
For fun here is the history of our team over the first 5:
2007 - well, forget that one
2008 - Carver - 9 points in 5 games
2009 - Carver/Cummins 5 points in 5 games
2010 - Preki 6 points in 5 games
2011 - Winter - 6 points in 5 games
2012 - forget that one too
2013 - Nelsen - 5 points in 5 games
2014 is 6 in 3. Great start. Columbus and Colorado up next. Can they beat the previous records? Tie them?
Defoe
Tweaked the hamstring in the first half. (i.e NOT the same injury that kept him out of Spurs)
The man has the right attitude.
I would like to see Nelsen protecting Defoe at bit more in a game like that. Playing him for 60 minutes in those circumstances is what you do in October, not now.
Not sure he should have played. For sure, Defoe doesn't need to go back out at halftime, in a very physical game, at altitude, that we are losing, when he had a "tweak" pregame!
Also is Gilberto OK?
Last edited by ensco; 03-30-2014 at 08:12 AM.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
Nelsen's quote was that he was feeling it BEFORE the game.
As for it being a different injury, there are only 2 hamstrings. If one is hurt the other compensates. All related.
Doesn't matter really. The odds say he is going to be hurt based on age and history. Playing him, if he was in fact feeling it BEFORE the game is troubling to me.
I don't blame Nelsen for that either.
I blame Tim L and his easiest team to turn around, playoff bound, flagship for reversing the culture of losing and are you sure you don't want back in on the season tickets because we won twice public bragging.
Nelsen has no choice to run Defoe as far as his health will take him.
Last edited by Pookie; 03-30-2014 at 08:14 AM.
Not entirely accurate. Defoe only missed 8 games out of a total of 40 played this season for the Spurs. The previous season he had the second most games played for the Spurs. I hate fact checking.
Defoe is only 31 years old so I don't think his age will be much of a factor. I also don't think you can compensate with one hamstring for another.
Think last night was a great reality check regarding our depth. RSL is the Moneyball success of Major League Soccer, and they showed us what you need to win: depth, time in role, and "gel."
We have none of those three things right now, and only more time will help two if not all three of them.
Agree with what someone else said up top, the home advantage in this game is nearly insurmountable for a squad like ours. If this was a September game, then MAYBE we had a chance at the draw. As it stands now, not a hope in hell and C-bus won't be any easier next week.
Well that was a splash of reality. While I did not expect the boys to win (Never won there before, top team at home, high altitude, and lots of flying east/ west.). I thought we would put on a better show. What do I take from this game: Hall is a liability for the team in the formation we play (known factor, no surprise). Actually we looked a lot better with Bekker in there which was a pleasant surprise. However still need to get Tim B to get more depth at CM. What was a negative surprise was that Orr cannot play in this league, just too slow ans not athletic enough. Need to bring Hagglund along this year. Gilberto is working very hard out there and is showing a good mentality but the combination with Dafoe needs more time to develop. The passing from our back four in transition leaves a lot to be desired. Really surprised how bad Morrow and Orr are with passing and this has always been a weakness fir Henry. Tactically Ryan has to mature. He stuck with same tactics even after they half when it was clear we were getting killed in the midfield. Should have moved to 4-5-1 and counter attacked. We need to get more control of the ball, we have the players to do it when we are all healthy and this must improve. Only one game, tough opening schedule. Let's see how they respond in the next game.
Last edited by SKB; 03-30-2014 at 10:00 AM.
How healthy he was in the past needs to be weighed with the fact that as we age, the risk of injury increases. Particularly true for athletes.
That is the risk in signing older players and in particular one that had an injury at the time of signing.
BTW, Defoe also missed a few weeks in 2010 with.. Wait for it... A hamstring injury.
Last edited by Pookie; 03-30-2014 at 10:04 AM.
I can live with not changing the tactics. Nelsen's trying to get the team to gel. Changing formations is for down the line. (The fact that our tactics stink, that's true!)
I am still shaking my head at the idea that Defoe came out for the second half, having "warmed down".
Even if Defoe and the doctor told him it was OK, what Nelsen is paid to do is to look at everything (game situation, point in season, the history) and make a call there. I think he got that very wrong.
Last edited by ensco; 03-30-2014 at 10:32 AM.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
Well that was a big reality check. While it would be arrogant to expect to win away against an excellent team like that... We really did expect TFC to compete. Instead they were comprehensively beaten. Beckerman and Morales were far more effective than our one man mid-field. If Bradley ever gets injured we are back to last season..i'm afraid. There is a touch of the Frings scenario here...decent team when he was fit - hopeless when not. Bradley is at his peak fortunately- so less of a risk than Frings was. TFC are good enough to make the play-offs - but we are a ways off from contending for the cup. Not a play-off team if Bradley or Defoe get injured.
Most concerning for me is the quality of our wingers... They offer no threat from what I have seen so far. This makes it easy for opposing teams... Pack the middle and mark Defoe tightly and you can shut TFC down. I've not been impressed with Rey or Jackson at all.
2nd concern is Gilberto... Hopefully just a litttle more settling in required...but he is going to have to contribute at DP level and win some games. We need to get goals from players other than defoe soon.
I know it's only 1 game but this proves that Henry is not ready. Too raw and inexperienced. He should have been aware that Toledo was the ref who loves giving penalty shots. He needed to jockey Saborio. He was no threat if he just kept him where he was. He manhandled and tossed him like a ragdoll. Penalty was justified. Nelson realized Morgan was a liability and it will only be a matter of time before he realizes Henry is as well.
Always was going to be tough for TFC to go into RSL. Didn't expect 3-0. Was really hoping for the draw. Our depth got exposed. Would have like to see Bekker ahead of Hall. I enjoy watching Bekker play.
After watching the game again, I think the scoreline was misleading. It was actually an evenly contested match, but RSL had the benefit of an early brutal penalty call, a lucky bounce, and were able to capitalize.
That being said, our lack of depth will continue to be an achilles heel for this club until it is addressed.
Here's what I got from this thread over the last 12 hours.
Defoe is too old,
Defoe is injury prone,
Nelsen can't coach,
4-4-2 will never work,
It's time to panic,
Proof that Henry is not up to par,
We have no quality wingers,
Thank you for the contributions. Does anyone other than a handful of people talk about the facts of the game, tactically, rather than point fingers and put blame?
Bekker was much better last night. I would prefer to see him start alongside Bradley with Osorio out for the next few weeks.
Thanks for the last two comments, convinced me it is still worth reading and contributing here..like most things in life people run simply on emotion.
Both interesting issues. If Defoe's hamstring was tight, he probably shouldn't have been starting, at the very least, and probably not playing. Who risks an asset that valuable in a place where only 20% of teams ever get a point?
The tactical issue is doubly interesting though, because the first two wins were against flat 442, same as we play. Part of the reason they cut us to pieces was that we didn't stop pressing, even against a narrow diamond, allowing plenty of space off the ball for RSL to pass around us.
Next week, we have Columbus, which I believe is playing either a 4-2-3-1- or a 4-3-2-1; If we dont' adapt to that and just try to press high and counter, they'll kill us, too. Higuain is just like Morales, he loves to operate between the midfield and back line and use lateral movement to open up space for other players.
Rey was invisible yesterday, as Columbus concentrated on his flank offensively and he was behind the play a lot; the Bloom experiment on the other wing was a failure, too.
We have great players, great assets; but we're still half a team, and tactically we're a ways away, still, it appears. People think I was being crazy premature for the "start the death watch" column, but they thought that about Mo, too. If we lose next week, we follow that stretch with Colorado, Dallas, New England and Vancouver. Of those, I'd say only New England should be guaranteed points.
Interesting times. Still beats the hell out of past futility but the future is unwritten.
What stuck out for me was from the very beginning. Why did Ryan change up the defense? After Bloom was moved back, it tightened up. He just have AT MOST put Orr at RM and left Bloom at RB.
With Oso and Jackson out, I would have played a much more defensive game, while TFC constantly tried to push them through the middle and got caught on counters and 1-2 touch plays.
True however with our depth players we are just trying to get them to function and position well, this itself seems to overwhelmed them... let alone actually change tactics. Actually could also be said for a number of the starters. Defoe was a calculated risk based on Nelsen is still trying to get Gilberto up to speed, no one else is available that is likely to be effective. I would have rested Defoe however it all suggest Nelsen is under pressure for results big time. Given the pitch and where the team was at.... the tactics realistically seemed pragmatic and this team as a whole to change tactics mid-game well...they have only a few players capable of that.
Back to reality
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote