TFC 2014 In-Season player moves/speculation/rumours/etc. thread

[Pookie]

MLS Draft is crapshoot. You can't rely on draft filled with overage "youth" kids to build a championship team especially when you got teams like TFC and NYC FC signing world class players these days.

I would agree with you but for 2 factors.

1. NYC FC (or any other team) cannot sign 11 world class players given the MLS quota system and its Designated Player rules. Both combine to ensure that primarily US Domestic players get a chance to play and develop.

2. MLS does not have Free Agency… a team holds players for as long as they want.

Those 2 factors mean that player acquisition is critical.

The MLS Draft is the main way a team can get its hands on Domestic talent that hasn't been cast aside. If it doesn't draft, it relies on trades… usually like for like… or the Re-entry Draft and Waiver Draft. Lastly of course is the Academy. But dropping 18 year old Canadians into professional soccer is more risky than drafting 22 year old NCAA players in this US Domestic league. I would also argue that for top picks, it isn't a crap shoot at all. Many, many quality MLS players have come via the draft.

It's very much like the Leafs. Pre-salary cap era, the Leafs could spend to overcome their shortfalls. They would trade youth for veterans (Leetch, Nolan, Clark II, Gilmour II, etc, etc). Then came the cap that limited spending. Then came restrictions via reduced age for free agency. Good players just weren't available anymore. The draft became critical in building a team and the Leafs had no picks.

It is perhaps even more critical for TFC since it is the ONLY way it can acquire US born players that haven't been dropped or deemed expendable by other MLS clubs.

[Ultra & Proud]

I would agree with you but for 2 factors.

1. NYC FC (or any other team) cannot sign 11 world class players given the MLS quota system and its Designated Player rules. Both combine to ensure that primarily US Domestic players get a chance to play and develop.

2. MLS does not have Free Agency… a team holds players for as long as they want.

Those 2 factors mean that player acquisition is critical.

The MLS Draft is the main way a team can get its hands on Domestic talent that hasn't been cast aside. If it doesn't draft, it relies on trades… usually like for like… or the Re-entry Draft and Waiver Draft. Lastly of course is the Academy. But dropping 18 year old Canadians into professional soccer is more risky than drafting 22 year old NCAA players in this US Domestic league. I would also argue that for top picks, it isn't a crap shoot at all. Many, many quality MLS players have come via the draft.

It's very much like the Leafs. Pre-salary cap era, the Leafs could spend to overcome their shortfalls. They would trade youth for veterans (Leetch, Nolan, Clark II, Gilmour II, etc, etc). Then came the cap that limited spending. Then came restrictions via reduced age for free agency. Good players just weren't available anymore. The draft became critical in building a team and the Leafs had no picks.

It is perhaps even more critical for TFC since it is the ONLY way it can acquire US born players that haven't been dropped or deemed expendable by other MLS clubs.

Somewhat agree but it is still a crapshoot. I think scouting the USL/NASL is a good option as well. There are more guys like Bloom down there to be had. I wonder if we do scout there?

[Pookie]

Somewhat agree but it is still a crapshoot. I think scouting the USL/NASL is a good option as well. There are more guys like Bloom down there to be had. I wonder if we do scout there?

I would highly doubt it but you never know.

The thing is to get a player there uses up a discovery signing. Is that where you want to use up those slots? On a US Domestic player?

[Ultra & Proud]

I would highly doubt it but you never know.

The thing is to get a player there uses up a discovery signing. Is that where you want to use up those slots? On a US Domestic player?

Was never a fan of the whole discovery system anyway. But sure, if a diamond in the rough was found down there then why not? They'd most likely be domestic, be used to the travel and climates, and also be cheaper than what we'd pay for a international player we'd be rolling the dice on who may not pan out.

[prizby]

My one hope is that TFC does the same and keeps all of their draft picks. The risk with the short term window is that you are back to square one once it closes and you need to have players ready to step in for this to be sustainable.

Got to believe they have one eye on the expansion draft already for next year...which is a big reason why they have lined up 4 first round picks for next year's draft...they'll lose 2 guys and I wouldn't be surprised that guys like Oduro and Warner become expendible via the expansion draft next year too. They'll protect bendik, morrow, bloom, bradley, defoe, osorio, hagglund, and Henry if he isn't auto protected, probably see caldwell and jackson in there as well; maybe gilberto and oduro, but really, the 4 first round picks are to make up for what they will lose via the expansion draft

[Pookie]

Got to believe they have one eye on the expansion draft already for next year...which is a big reason why they have lined up 4 first round picks for next year's draft...they'll lose 2 guys and I wouldn't be surprised that guys like Oduro and Warner become expendible via the expansion draft next year too. They'll protect bendik, morrow, bloom, bradley, defoe, osorio, hagglund, and Henry if he isn't auto protected, probably see caldwell and jackson in there as well; maybe gilberto and oduro, but really, the 4 first round picks are to make up for what they will lose via the expansion draft

Very strategic review there. That really is another key reason to hold on to them.

I don't like what Tim L has to say very often but his pro-draft stance is one of the things that I really appreciate.

[prizby]

Very strategic review there. That really is another key reason to hold on to them.

I don't like what Tim L has to say very often but his pro-draft stance is one of the things that I really appreciate.

I think based on the way things are we'll have 1 or 2 top 10 picks (1 in the top 5) and probably 3 in the top 15 or 16 and 4 within the first 20 picks. There is absolutely no reason why TFC can't find a starter and at least 2 role players with in the draft; could see them packaging picks together to trade up

[Dub Narcotic]

I think KP selling draft pick was more to do with giving us more flexibility to sign players with allocation money he got from trading down draft picks. People forget how bad our cap space was when KP first arrived to Toronto. KP did a great job cleaning cap space up and signing some decent young players in process.

I think KP leaving had to do with TL philosophy on signing DP's than anything else. Of course, egos clash between those two played a part as well.

Trading draft picks for cap space lost year cost TFC Andrew Farrell, the best young defender in the league. They did not even get that much allocation either. Payne did do a good job clearing cap space but selling high draft picks for nothing and drafting non-GA players did not help at all in that regard and ended up being a massive long-term blow to the team.

[mcolvy]

If Oduro plays as a striker...why do we need Gilberto.
Moore is a great partner for Defoe, then you have Oduro and Dike who each bring a unique skillset that will give teams fits...
Boy if we had Laba still...

[Milanista]

bring laba back next yr sign an AM with gilberto being sold.

Play a 4 3 3 or 4 3 1 2

and we win mls

[Defoe]

bring laba back next yr sign an AM with gilberto being sold.

Play a 4 3 3 or 4 3 1 2

and we win mls

I wouldn't want to sell Gilberto at his lowest value... though I would like Laba back, we can make room for both.

[mitchf]

I wouldn't want to sell Gilberto at his lowest value... though I would like Laba back, we can make room for both.

Here's where you need to use your brain and what you've seen vs the possibilities and assumptions we made months ago.

I had HUGE expectations for Gilberto, right now, I expect zilch from him. He won't score in this league based on his complete inability to stay composed in the box. He's wild and reckless and has zero touch.

With Gilberto, it'll always be a case of "selling low". Sorry, but this will hold up as long as he's here.

[QBall]

Apparently Julio Cesar is not returning to TFC after the World Cup

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/so...032412528.html

"Though Cesar's loan at Toronto FC was supposed to run until December, it's been reported that newly promoted QPR will take him back after the World Cup for their return to the Premier League."

[OgtheDim]

I stand corrected. Oduro and Moore will play that up front and wide role.

[Abou Sky]

Ok, so how does cap hit go if we sell Gilberto for say, $500k outside of the league? Do we get his full hit back (pro-rated for time) or do we lose cap hit or ???

Really, if MLSE is out $500k, and they bring in a solid player for a couple of years they won't care.

[Dub Narcotic]

Ok, so how does cap hit go if we sell Gilberto for say, $500k outside of the league? Do we get his full hit back (pro-rated for time) or do we lose cap hit or ???

Really, if MLSE is out $500k, and they bring in a solid player for a couple of years they won't care.

I think it would accelerate the whole hit to this year's cap; the effect of that would be to lose the DP spot and cap hit for the rest of the year, not much advantage for Toronto. I imagine they are already thinking about how to buyout Gilberto in the off-season, although the CBA expiring is going to change a lot of things.

[Milanista]

I wouldn't want to sell Gilberto at his lowest value... though I would like Laba back, we can make room for both.

mlse don't care about money, if he doesn't improve you can't have such a poor DP..spend that money an a real AM

[trane]

Here's where you need to use your brain and what you've seen vs the possibilities and assumptions we made months ago.

I had HUGE expectations for Gilberto, right now, I expect zilch from him. He won't score in this league based on his complete inability to stay composed in the box. He's wild and reckless and has zero touch.

With Gilberto, it'll always be a case of "selling low". Sorry, but this will hold up as long as he's here.

g
Who have you been watching??? I want to see him too, this "wild and reckless" dude with "zero touch" but I haven't seen any Gilberto that fits that description in any way.

As for the Gilberto that I have seen I exptected nothing from him, as I new nothing about him, and had never seen him play. BUT now that I have seen him play I can say that he is one of the best attacking players I have ever seen in this league, but for one great big flow, he has not score yet. Everything else, vision, touch, positioning, movement ect. has been fucking a

[Pookie]

Ok, so how does cap hit go if we sell Gilberto for say, $500k outside of the league? Do we get his full hit back (pro-rated for time) or do we lose cap hit or ???

Really, if MLSE is out $500k, and they bring in a solid player for a couple of years they won't care.

The "cap" doesn't work like the NHL. It is a budget charge.

If TFC sell him outside of MLS, they aren't paying anything anymore. Therefore no budget charge the moment the payroll department stops issuing cheques. DP slot opens.

If they trade him in MLS and still pay a portion of his compensation that gets charged against their budget. If another team assumes full financial responsibility, they get charged nothing against their budget.

Think of it as if they have to still pay it goes against budget. If they walk from the deal, it doesn't.

Now, I wouldn't entertain that at all.

[Yohan]

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football...on_158837.html

Don't know how credible this source is

[OgtheDim]

The bit about him wanting to play with ex West Ham mates is typical of the English media - if they can draw a connection, they can sell ads by putting it in front of the 4 million or so English people who feel the need to know every last thing going on in English football, even if its just rumours.

[prizby]

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football...on_158837.html

Don't know how credible this source is

wouldn't surprise me one bit if he had that a 2 month loan deal worked into his contract every January

[jloome]

Sorry, but this will hold up as long as he's here.

You are sure of yourself, aren't you? Seem to have been watching a different player than the rest of us, though.

[LFC8]

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football...on_158837.html

Don't know how credible this source is

Sportsmole is not credible....that site just makes up random rumors lol

[mitchf]

g
Who have you been watching??? I want to see him too, this "wild and reckless" dude with "zero touch" but I haven't seen any Gilberto that fits that description in any way.

As for the Gilberto that I have seen I exptected nothing from him, as I new nothing about him, and had never seen him play. BUT now that I have seen him play I can say that he is one of the best attacking players I have ever seen in this league, but for one great big flow, he has not score yet. Everything else, vision, touch, positioning, movement ect. has been fucking a

This is hilarious. Sometimes it's ok to accept defeat.

[ryan]

Defoe wants to play football 12 months of the year? Not so sure.

[Derko]

All this talk of selling Gilberto is a little too much to take, he adds so much to the attack, my opinion is most of those who want to throw Gilberto under the bus, must on Glue or Crack

[TFCAURORA]

I don't know why we making so many trades. There are a few new teams joining the league in the next few years. Chances are we will lose some players in the expansion draft. If there are players we don't want or see as expendable, keep them instead of losing what we traded them for.

[PopePouri]

I don't know why we making so many trades.

Team balance for a better playoff run.

There are a few new teams joining the league in the next few years. Chances are we will lose some players in the expansion draft. If there are players we don't want or see as expendable, keep them instead of losing what we traded them for.

We lose up to two players. Looking at who may be unprotected, don't see anyone that we can't live without.

Protected:

Bendik
Caldwell
Henry
Hagglund
Osorio
Bradley
Defoe
Lovitz
Jackson
Warner
Morrow
Bloom

Unprotected:

Moore
Richter
Morgan
DeRosario
Konopka
Orr (loan ends)
Wiedeman
Hall
Bekker
Gilberto
Oduro
Dike

[Pint]

Team balance for a better playoff run.



We lose up to two players. Looking at who may be unprotected, don't see anyone that we can't live without.

Protected:

Bendik
Caldwell
Henry
Hagglund
Osorio
Bradley
Defoe
Lovitz
Jackson
Warner
Morrow
Bloom

Unprotected:

Moore
Richter
Morgan
DeRosario
Konopka
Orr (loan ends)
Wiedeman
Hall
Bekker
Gilberto
Oduro
Dike

I thought homegrown players were automatically protected? so wouldn't Morgan, Henry, Osorio, Hamilton, and Apariaco already be protected?