TFC 2014 In-Season player moves/speculation/rumours/etc. thread

[OgtheDim]

Our issue is width. Morrow and Bloom don't get forward often enough especially with Issey and Rey tucking inside. It's easily nullified by bunching up the middle. If I'm Nelsen, I'm bringing in Lovitz so that Jackson can play right back. He has the engine and pace to bomb up and down that right side.

When they tuck in, Bloom and Morrow do step up.

BUT, they've been told to tend to the back first and build from there.

I'm not into a Yedlin type of RB when we don't have a Destroyer.

If we get Laba next season, then let's see.

[MartinUtd]

On a side note, I can't wait to see Yedlin at the world cup. It's going to be a massacre.

[brad]

Yeah this is true, although could have spent more on the two FW spots. So I'll alter my argument to, instead of Defoe, who could we got for 12M? Or rather, instead of Gilberto, who could we have gotten for 7M? Or however you want to slice it.

A valid question, but that was also never on the cards either. Prior to the DP's signing, we Laba as a DP and 2 DP slots open. For the 2 DP slots, they were looking at one "A level" DP and one "B level DP". They didn't intend to sign two big name, high salary DP's - just one. Defoe, Gilberto and Laba was the plan to meet that. When Bradley fell into our laps, things obviously changed very quickly and they went for two A-level DP's as the opportunity was too good to pass up.

But also remember, at the point Bradley came around, Gilberto and Defoe were already signed as well.

[Red CB Toronto]

On a side note, I can't wait to see Yedlin at the world cup. It's going to be a massacre.

He still has to earn a spot on the 23 man roster. I would suggest at this point he would be favoured as one of the 7 cuts JK makes.

[Phil]

You can bet TFC are going to be gunning for Shea this summer window...

[OgtheDim]

You can bet TFC are going to be gunning for Shea this summer window...

I don't get that move at all. We need more defence in our midfield, not an upgrade on Bekker, with worse hair.

[Morlesio14]

Would love brek Shea, there are already some rumours of him returning to mls

[T-boy]

I don't get that move at all. We need more defence in our midfield, not an upgrade on Bekker, with worse hair.

Shea isn't a central midfielder, nothing like Bekker. He's an attacking mid at best, but more like a wide man in a ront 3 or a second striker or winger. I've seen him play pure wing and he's solid as he's ast for a 6ft 3 guy. He wouldn't be replacing anybody in the central midfield, but he would be an upgrade on all our current wide men. He would definitely be better than Jackson, I would think.

[defensor]

Better than rey, different than Jackson. I agree with the guy who said Jackson could play RB. I said it before in a game thread or something before I'm pretty sure, when everyone was praising Bloom and disrespecting Jackson. Anyway isn't Shea kind of overrated? Not sure how he's doing this year but last I checked he had one good season and since has been pretty bad. Pretty sure we could get someone a lot better for a lot cheaper. I remember someone saying Klinsman must have a man-crush on Shea for giving him so many minutes on the USMNT, and when I watched him play he was absolute shit. Kind of reminds me of the Bekker situation, but I disagree with the wolf avatar guy above, we have bradley, he is basically a defensive midfielder/ box to box CM, we would be wise to replace Bekker. But I do see why Nelson would be in search of someone for the wing mostly, or someone who could play like right mid left mid center attack mid types of roles.

[OgtheDim]

Its been noted by quite a few people who watch the USMNT that Bradley works better with a DM type so he can do his rushing and passing.

I see nothing different here.

Pair him with a true destroyer, and he'd be released.

[defensor]

Its been noted by quite a few people who watch the USMNT that Bradley works better with a DM type so he can do his rushing and passing.

I see nothing different here.

Pair him with a true destroyer, and he'd be released.

ok, that's a very fair point. His defensive work and abilities are his strongest point imo, but for MLS standards especially his passing and rushing is very good. He's not really the quickest ever on the rush, but he's quick enough, and can maintain his endurance for a full 90 minutes it seems. I guess for his offensive abilities to really showcase maybe he needs to play with a pure defensive midfielder which is probably pretty accurate, if playing with 2 strikers of course, if playing with 1 strike it's a different story. I'm not an expert on Bradley, but his defensive work is what impressed me the most.

[ensco]

I don't get that move at all. We need more defence in our midfield, not an upgrade on Bekker, with worse hair.

Brek Shea has WAY better hair than Bekker.

[Phil]

I want to see an upgrade on service to the strikers. Lets face it, our delivery into the box is pretty crap. Gilberto and Defoe won't score if they can't get service. I would think Shea is a partial solution to that *if* we get him.

[C.Ronaldo]

Shea isn't a central midfielder, nothing like Bekker. He's an attacking mid at best, but more like a wide man in a ront 3 or a second striker or winger. I've seen him play pure wing and he's solid as he's ast for a 6ft 3 guy. He wouldn't be replacing anybody in the central midfield, but he would be an upgrade on all our current wide men. He would definitely be better than Jackson, I would think.

pick up shea, trade jackson, pick up extra depth for defensive mid.

seems simple to me

[19Barrett19]

I would love to see tfc try a new formation I think it would improve the service to our ST
4-1-3-2 or a 4-1-2-1-2
Bekker would be more useful at cm/cam osorio on rcm/rm bradley at cdm and Rey at lcm/lm this way we could utilize dero at cam for bekker and have more wiggle room to tweek the roster .... thoughts?

[CBTFC]

I would love to see tfc try a new formation I think it would improve the service to our ST
4-1-3-2 or a 4-1-2-1-2
Bekker would be more useful at cm/cam osorio on rcm/rm bradley at cdm and Rey at lcm/lm this way we could utilize dero at cam for bekker and have more wiggle room to tweek the roster .... thoughts?

I agree, time to shake things up a bit. Feels like that we've been doing the standard english 4-4-2 FOREVER.

[T-boy]

I agree, time to shake things up a bit. Feels like that we've been doing the standard english 4-4-2 FOREVER.

Other than with Aron Winter and his 4-3-3 - which also didn't work!

We should try something unique and new like 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1!

[defensor]

pretty sure we've played with a 4 1 2 1 2 for like the last 2-3 games. IMO it's all about the 4 2 3 1 or 4141 but TFC doesn't have the right players for that, at all. It's not like it's as simple as just a formation though anyway, way more more complicated than that.

[SamK]

Nelsen has actually spoken in interviews about how many different formations they use (or want to use) when attacking, but do stick to more of a 442 for defending.

[Mark in Ottawa]

I saw him play the Ottawa Fury in the Amway preliminary match and he was terrific.
Looking forward to watching him when Edmonton return to Ottawa for a regular NASL match on May 31st.

[gdg_9]

Jordan Hamilton gave him a shout out on twitter yesterday...

Maybe he can help convince him to come to Toronto

[JamboAl]

I would love for him to go to TFC. But I think he'd be better off playing regularly somewhere after this season; and I'm not sure TFC will give him the chance. But I'm with Mark, he is quite exciting to watch.

[Super]

Might be interesting to see us try out a 3-5-2 formation. Especially with our midfielders. Not sure if our D is strong enough for it, though. Either way I prefer to see 2 strikers up front.

[jloome]

Nelsen has actually spoken in interviews about how many different formations they use (or want to use) when attacking, but do stick to more of a 442 for defending.

We play a zonal 4-4-2 defensively

Offensively, we play a 4-2-? adjusted. What I mean by this is we play two pivoting center mids at all time; both go forward or back based on the position of the ball as it transitions in the offensive zone, to support that side of the field.

But then our forwards are positioned based on assignments, not positions, since Nelsen is a modern theorist. That's why you'll see a lot of wing switching, etc. It's designed to provide the best one-on-one matchups for creative players. So at times it'll look like a 4-2-3-1, at times like a 4-4-1-1, at times like a 4-2-2, etc. The only constant is two mids, so that one can always drop to the strong (ball) side of the field and support the defense.

To me, it's smart football -- if you have the players to pull it off. It's why I like the 4-2-3-1 in particular. But after a decade of watching MLS, I honestly believe most teams will never have enough "smart" players on the field at one time (real game readers, not just athletes or technicians) to pull off that much offensive flexibility.

It leads to a lot of weaving, and dropping off, and showing for the ball etc, but very little actual penetration, because players have too many decisions to make and not enough instinctive play based on "knowing" exactly where other players will be, which is possible when you stick to one or two base formations. There's too much reliance on offense as individuals and not as team players.

I think it's also well beyond the typical MLS lineup to pull it off every week. It's ambitious and grandiose.

[Abou Sky]

pick up shea, trade jackson, pick up extra depth for defensive mid.

seems simple to me

Why would you trade Jackson? He is a great player, super fast, hard nosed and great on defense.

[MightyDM]

We play a zonal 4-4-2 defensively

Offensively, we play a 4-2-? adjusted. What I mean by this is we play two pivoting center mids at all time; both go forward or back based on the position of the ball as it transitions in the offensive zone, to support that side of the field.

But then our forwards are positioned based on assignments, not positions, since Nelsen is a modern theorist. That's why you'll see a lot of wing switching, etc. It's designed to provide the best one-on-one matchups for creative players. So at times it'll look like a 4-2-3-1, at times like a 4-4-1-1, at times like a 4-2-2, etc. The only constant is two mids, so that one can always drop to the strong (ball) side of the field and support the defense.

To me, it's smart football -- if you have the players to pull it off. It's why I like the 4-2-3-1 in particular. But after a decade of watching MLS, I honestly believe most teams will never have enough "smart" players on the field at one time (real game readers, not just athletes or technicians) to pull off that much offensive flexibility.

It leads to a lot of weaving, and dropping off, and showing for the ball etc, but very little actual penetration, because players have too many decisions to make and not enough instinctive play based on "knowing" exactly where other players will be, which is possible when you stick to one or two base formations. There's too much reliance on offense as individuals and not as team players.

I think it's also well beyond the typical MLS lineup to pull it off every week. It's ambitious and grandiose.

This is the best comment I have seen on this board, and explains what I saw last night - players trying to be almost too cute with passes and little runs between our penalty area and centre, random passes which went straight to Vancouver, and the players looking confused. Interesting, because the fair criticism of Nelsen is then that he is too ambitious, not too conservative. very interesting and very clearly written, J Loome. you still have it....

[molenshtain]

We play a zonal 4-4-2 defensively

Offensively, we play a 4-2-? adjusted. What I mean by this is we play two pivoting center mids at all time; both go forward or back based on the position of the ball as it transitions in the offensive zone, to support that side of the field.

But then our forwards are positioned based on assignments, not positions, since Nelsen is a modern theorist. That's why you'll see a lot of wing switching, etc. It's designed to provide the best one-on-one matchups for creative players. So at times it'll look like a 4-2-3-1, at times like a 4-4-1-1, at times like a 4-2-2, etc. The only constant is two mids, so that one can always drop to the strong (ball) side of the field and support the defense.

To me, it's smart football -- if you have the players to pull it off. It's why I like the 4-2-3-1 in particular. But after a decade of watching MLS, I honestly believe most teams will never have enough "smart" players on the field at one time (real game readers, not just athletes or technicians) to pull off that much offensive flexibility.

It leads to a lot of weaving, and dropping off, and showing for the ball etc, but very little actual penetration, because players have too many decisions to make and not enough instinctive play based on "knowing" exactly where other players will be, which is possible when you stick to one or two base formations. There's too much reliance on offense as individuals and not as team players.

I think it's also well beyond the typical MLS lineup to pull it off every week. It's ambitious and grandiose.

I agree this is a pretty good assessment of Nelsen's offensive preferences when he gets a group of guys playing together for more than a few games. I'd say you saw the same thing towards the end of last season when He finally got the same 11 guys on the pitch most games. The first few weeks last year were similiar to this, very static movement with pretty good defensive organization. then When convey, Brockie, Laba and Caldwell came in it settled the lineup a bit and allowed us to fool around up top and you saw a lot more movement, especially from midfield. The same I think is happening this season, to varying degrees of success. Next few games are going to be crucial.

[starter]

We play a zonal 4-4-2 defensively

Offensively, we play a 4-2-? adjusted. What I mean by this is we play two pivoting center mids at all time; both go forward or back based on the position of the ball as it transitions in the offensive zone, to support that side of the field.

But then our forwards are positioned based on assignments, not positions, since Nelsen is a modern theorist. That's why you'll see a lot of wing switching, etc. It's designed to provide the best one-on-one matchups for creative players. So at times it'll look like a 4-2-3-1, at times like a 4-4-1-1, at times like a 4-2-2, etc. The only constant is two mids, so that one can always drop to the strong (ball) side of the field and support the defense.

To me, it's smart football -- if you have the players to pull it off. It's why I like the 4-2-3-1 in particular. But after a decade of watching MLS, I honestly believe most teams will never have enough "smart" players on the field at one time (real game readers, not just athletes or technicians) to pull off that much offensive flexibility.

It leads to a lot of weaving, and dropping off, and showing for the ball etc, but very little actual penetration, because players have too many decisions to make and not enough instinctive play based on "knowing" exactly where other players will be, which is possible when you stick to one or two base formations. There's too much reliance on offense as individuals and not as team players.

I think it's also well beyond the typical MLS lineup to pull it off every week. It's ambitious and grandiose.

So, to sum up your analysis, would it be fair to say that RN, like AW before him, is expecting too much from the squad?
Could they run before they can walk?
The team looks confused with the ball in the short periods it has it.

[jloome]

So, to sum up your analysis, would it be fair to say that RN, like AW before him, is expecting too much from the squad?
Could they run before they can walk?
The team looks confused with the ball in the short periods it has it.

I don't know if it's a case of the squad not being good enough yet or simply more than players at this level will ever take on. I've heard players from KC and Portland talk about the fact that they get confidence from very prescribed movement and I wonder if perhaps we'll see more of that; it may be that Nelsen is of the opinion that everything starts from not giving up goal. The question is when or if we'll see more cohesiveness on the offensive end and even in the build up.

I'm trying to be optimistic about that but I'm not really seeing it yet. We can't really string together quick pass-and-move sequences, which you sort of need in a league where every team is built down the spine and defenses tend to get back quickly. Otherwise, we end out just whipping in crosses all day; there's usually more space outside in MLS so perhaps he believes we should spend most of our time out there offensively, but I'm not convinced. The great think about a 4-2-3-1 variant instead of those with four across the middle is you still have cover but one of your offensive triggers is in the hole behind the strikers, which defences have to respect, giving the strikers more of a chance to find space.

[Areathrasher]

We play a zonal 4-4-2 defensively

Offensively, we play a 4-2-? adjusted. What I mean by this is we play two pivoting center mids at all time; both go forward or back based on the position of the ball as it transitions in the offensive zone, to support that side of the field.

But then our forwards are positioned based on assignments, not positions, since Nelsen is a modern theorist. That's why you'll see a lot of wing switching, etc. It's designed to provide the best one-on-one matchups for creative players. So at times it'll look like a 4-2-3-1, at times like a 4-4-1-1, at times like a 4-2-2, etc. The only constant is two mids, so that one can always drop to the strong (ball) side of the field and support the defense.

To me, it's smart football -- if you have the players to pull it off. It's why I like the 4-2-3-1 in particular. But after a decade of watching MLS, I honestly believe most teams will never have enough "smart" players on the field at one time (real game readers, not just athletes or technicians) to pull off that much offensive flexibility.

It leads to a lot of weaving, and dropping off, and showing for the ball etc, but very little actual penetration, because players have too many decisions to make and not enough instinctive play based on "knowing" exactly where other players will be, which is possible when you stick to one or two base formations. There's too much reliance on offense as individuals and not as team players.

I think it's also well beyond the typical MLS lineup to pull it off every week. It's ambitious and grandiose.

Excellent post. Sums up some thoughts that i'd been having and struggling with lately.

The bolded part is bang on! ​