Disagree with this post.Originally Posted by Oldtimer
Why are the MLS players union entitled to a percentage of SUM? If they participate in SUM events they are paid for that. Unless ofcourse there were players who "INVESTED" in SUM back at it's inception. You know when no one had any clue it would be profitable. Lastly, stadium depreciation is just like building depreciation for any business.
While that is true, the league is in a better position than the players are with respect to a strike as of right now.
Soccer is one of the few North American sports where replacement players would have little to no effect on the perceived quality of the game. There are a flood of players available on any given day. All MLS would have to do is temporarily relax its domestic player quotas and open the doors.
That said, I think that the Players' Union is nearing a time when a strike makes absolute success. Many legal analysts don't think MLS' current structure could survive an anti-trust suit. The nature of the league holding all the contracts with players and the board structure (with owner-operators having a seat on the board) arguably serves to reduce competition, hold player salaries down, and often dictates where players will play. Those practices would seemingly be restrictive in terms of labour movement.
As teams become more independent and the league gains a foothold, that's when I think the Union will turn it up. It may not be this time around. Their path to success (ie. free agency), comes when the league is strong and going the replacement player route makes no sense.
I suspect they will use anti-trust concerns this time around to parlay it into increased benefits such as raises in the minimum salaries, more guaranteed contracts, player benefits.
Next time, with established markets, bigger TV contracts and growth it is likely they will swing for the free agency fence and the threat of a strike will be real.
This thing has a timeline and it is headed where the Union wants it.
Considering they are going to be trying to sell the game in new markets, I completely disagree. They have to show people that it's an entertaining game and one of reasonable quality. Contrary to popular opinon, there aren't a mass of out of contract players sitting around who could readily replace MLS players on a temporary basis (key word: temporary).
There is more than enough meat to strike at right now for the players to make up ground. TV contract not required. Players seem very willing to strike as well. They got smoked last time and they knew it. Afterwords they went out and got heavy hitters from MLB and some other places. They wouldn't do that unless they were showing intent.
^ how big is the war chest though this time around?
MLS players are entitled to a share of SUM profits to the extent that it is related to MLS games. After all, it is the players that create the entertainment that the TV revenues come from. If it is Mexican league games (also broadcast by SUM), I totally agree with you.
As far as stadium depreciation, tax treatment in the US differs from Canada. In Canada, the government dictates how much you can write off every year (Capital Cost Allowance) which can differ greatly from the depreciation on the books.
In the US, bookkeeping depreciation is used. This gives a strong incentive to inflate the amount of depreciation in order to minimize taxes. Also in the US, you can write off unrelated businesses, so creating a tax loss to offset taxes on the profits of other arms of the business makes a lot of sense. Turning around and using these bogus figures in labour negotiations is absurd, however, these figures exist only to cut taxes. This doesn't happen in Canada due to the Capital Cost Allowance regime.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
On mobile so I won't link it but Twellman said on twitter he would be "shocked" if the next CBA doesn't see 4 DP slots and a 45-50% cap increase.
They should keep it at 3 Dp's and should just double the cap.
In the interest of parity, just double the cap. In the interest of big money TFC, MOAR DP'S!!!!!!!!
Pretty good reads
Homegrown Player rule
http://www.brotherlygame.com/2014/5/...a-visual-guide
New TV deal
http://www.brotherlygame.com/2014/5/...union-and-fans
CBA negotiation
http://www.brotherlygame.com/2014/2/...gue-and-owners
http://www.brotherlygame.com/2014/4/...layer-salaries
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Just passively listening to podcasts, interviews, etc. I keep hearing 5 million cap and another DP slot keep coming up too much to think it's not just a coincidence.
What's the international rule now? I've forgotten it's been so long since it was an issue. Three in the playing squad? They might increase that, too, if tempted by the sudden increase in the available talent pool after a wage hike.
If another DP slot is added I hope they put a contingency on it... either: Domestic, Young, or grown (player moving from regular contract to DP like zusi etc). The villa, lampard, defoes are nice for the league but the bradleys and gilberto/laba type signings are the ones that will move the league forward.
Exactly, there is no need for another DP slot. It makes no sense. Overall team quality 1-11 has to improve... the league has taken a backwards approach in adding "stars" before depth, which I'm not complaining about, but depth has to improve now. This article is a little older and since has added Defoe, Kaka, Bradley, Villa, Lampard etc... but just states the upper echelon players are higher then Liga MX.
http://www.thegoatparade.com/2013/4/...-as-we-figured
This statement doesn't make sense.Bezbatchenko said he expected the salary cap to rise US$1 million to $4 million after the next collective bargain agreement, allowing for more player investment.
Read more: http://www.cp24.com/sports/toronto-f...#ixzz3DRm7CAzZ
Does this mean the cap will be somewhere around the ball park of 4M+, or an increase of 3 mil to the existing salary cap.
Heres hoping the salary cap is raised to at least 6mil, the league minimum is raised to 80k and no max salary, 5 DP's that salaries don't count to the cap, home grown players are not included in the cap, and CANADIANS ARE CONSIDER DOMESTIC LEAGUE WIDE
lol. wishful thinking
I read it as cap will be raised to 4 mil per team. add in allocation money spent on players and the cap will be around 4.5 mil per team, which is more realistic expectations.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
No, read it again.
Bez is saying that he expects the salary cap to be set between $4.1 million to $7.1 million(!) for next season.Bezbatchenko said he expected the salary cap to rise $1-million to $4-million after the next collective bargain agreement, allowing for more player investment.
I can see why he doesn't want to spend more on longer contracts that could leave him handcuffed next year. It looks like the training wheels are finally coming off - MLS must be putting all their tv money into player salaries over the next 5 years. I can't see players complaining too much about that. A massive increase will probably buy off the players on other CBA issues like free agency and transfers.
Last edited by Initial B; 09-16-2014 at 06:52 AM.
Based on the quote and what I heard at the BBQ, it was definitely my impression that he meant the cap would be rising by 1m, ending up with each team having a cap of 4m (up from 3m). I'd be excited if it would be 7 but I really doubt it.
Fixed.Bezbatchenko said he expected the salary cap to rise $1-million. To $4-million after the next collective bargain agreement, allowing for more player investment.
If true, it's an entirely different league next year. Although I suspect a lot of this will be stuffed under USL rosters.
5M+ salary cap is too good to be true. I read it as a raise of 1M for a $4M salary cap. Wish they would've gone bigger with this one...it would bring in MLS 3.0 a loy sooner.
The cap not going up significantly after all these good years of progress is a step backwards. I think the best way to do it would be to have the cap at 7-10m, with the first 4m covered by the league, that way you could actually get the teams with money to be able to create a good squad and challange in the CCL.
such an increase will improve the quality of the league, but with int spot limitations, a lot of what will happen is that the scrubs just end up making more money
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
http://www.theguardian.com/football/...draft-veterans
some good read on re-entry draft
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
they want scrubs that left to euro and mexico to come back
the power of a comma!
Ah, the nuance of vocal tones. Well, that still about what we considered to be the most likely scenario in the salary cap poll (http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showth...alary-Cap-Poll). Still, If the new CBA keeps increasing the salary by 5% per year, that's still too slow for my taste, as a $4mil cap in 2015 will be only a $4.86mil cap by 2019. I'd much rather see the cap raised to $4.5-5mil, with with a 5%/yr increase would result in 2019 caps of $5.46mil or $6.07mil respectively. That would make it much a less drastic hit when they raise the cap to $7-10million in the following CBA.
I'm assuming the CBA will run 5 years, but doesn't the TV agreement run 8 years? I'm not liking that since that allows the owners to cry poor to the players again in the next CBA. I'd really like to see all the non-DP players in the league get a blanket $20K raise each (which would add $600K to each team roster). It's not that much more to players at the high-end of the pay-scale, but it would a 50% increase in pay for those at the lowest end of the pay scale and help offset some of the salary inequity complaints. Am I the only one who thinks the players should be paid more?
<edited for grammar and spelling>
Last edited by Initial B; 09-16-2014 at 02:05 PM.
Exactly. How many domestics are actually worth a huge pay increase? Or what domestic talent can be replaced at higher wages/quality? I think minimum for players need to rise drastically ($75,000 instead of $45,000 for example and then the question of how many players make league minimum and how would almost doubling it affect the overall cap figuring in homegrown player rules and generation Adidas rules) but for example Ashton Morgan shouldn't be entitled to double his wage because he is a domestic and we have a ton of cap room to fill at say 7-10million.
International player quality should go up with a cap that high but I think it would leave a large majority of domestic talent being bench warmers or overpaid based on their quality. Making tighter regulations on what is deemed a domestic would help that but then to fill such a high cap of 7-10million we end up with the overpaid domestic player problem. It could lure more American domestics back to MLS but is their enough of them to go around? Surely there are not enough Canadians at this time that have enough quality to demand high wages.
A talent like Osorio would benefit because if he starts maximizing his potential instead of going to Europe he could potential have a nice non DP wage. Therefore we could assume actually DP theresholds would be higher and potential attract more elite players (Or again overpay even more for over-the-hill DP's)
I think MLS is taking the stance as domestic talent increases (another convo on how to measure such a thing ) then the none DP cap should increase in line with this. Clearly they are being conservative and I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing based on what is outlined above.
very good convo to have tho. Will be interesting to watch the proceedings.
Last edited by pdubs; 09-16-2014 at 02:20 PM.
2 international spots need to be added and the minimum should rise to maybe 55k max. I'm sorry Osorio that is all your worth. If it raises only 1 million, it will be hard to improve overall quality that much within the next 2-3 years. The difference of that extra 1-2 million is huge. I'm hoping for 6... wouldn't be mad with 5. At 4 million I would be pretty dissapointed... The difference between 4 and 5 million is the difference of an extra 2 quality south American players like a Valeri and Laba. Our lineup fully healthy with Laba, Valeri and another quality talent is the difference between a quality team that would be enjoyable to watch that could probably do very well in concacaf vs a team that is still in the beginning stages and hard to watch... I support my local team no matter what but it would be nice to actually enjoy the game sooner rather then later. A 5 million dollar cap should be the goal, that would be a huge step forward. I think they should focus on adding more south American talent. The lack of Americans is not a problem at all... Dempsey, Jones, Bradley, Zusi etc get all the headlines anyways. We need the help from south America, so take it... put out a better product, increase the quality, and it will lead to more interest across both countries.
just to reiterate, MLS player's union's priority is not raising the salary cap. rather, it's over min wages, free agency and player benefits.
MLS FO will raise the salary cap because of other reasons, but it won't be mainly due to MLSPU demands it
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
55k is not going to attract the type of talent that thrives is professional sports. Right now, there are plenty of guys who will take Europe based on equal money and greater visibility or just give up on the game rather than go through this drudgery. Money may cause overpayment of domestics in short term but will draw talent in the long run. Internationals can't solve the lack of domestic talent, which this league needs to draw more attention to the product.
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