Oh yeah, definitely. Few stadiums can complete with that.Originally Posted by PopePouri
Oh yeah, definitely. Few stadiums can complete with that.
Once the new enquiry is complete into Hillsbrough, I think they will find that people standing had very little to do with why it happened (obviously it has a direct consequence, but the "reason's why it happened" were all other influences).
Standing at a sports stadium can be safe, just like driving can be safe, and flying a plane can be safe. But you have to have rules, and you have to follow the rules, and you have to enforce the rules. Just like when you let people drive too fast, or fly without a safe plane, standing then has issues if it isn't controlled properly. I don't see anybody wanting to ban all driving or all flying just because a few people don't follow the rules. You ban those individuals or they are arrested. That's why rules and laws exist!
Hillsbrough heavily influenced my youth and how I grew up, but rationally I also know that standing can be a safe and popular option at football games.
I don't think with this type of safe standing section a Hillsborough could ever happen. Hillsborough happened because too many people were allowed on the terrace basically creating a crushing effect.
This stand still has a numbered seat and thus tickets can be limited to people coming into the section. I know that people can't sneak in and all but more intervention and prevention and having more seats then we would have in the south with a stand like this would counter act that.
I'm all for a system like this. Think it's good all around.
Annnnnnnd the discussion is made moot.
But feel free and cast your "vote" for or against.
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Im a pretty tall guy as well, so I try to stand either at the rail or by the stairs.I always feel awkward standing at sporting events. I'm 6'7", so I feel like a dink to the people behind me, especially if it's kids, but obviously if the people in front of me are standing, I can't see unless I'm standing.
Whats the expected ettiquette for giants?!
Wait so I think I missed it here... What exactly is the safety issue we are trying to prevent? The idea that the current seat set up is not fit for those who will inevitably be on their feet the whole game makes sense. People cant see over, so make it steeper and add a rail to make sure the steepness doesnt hurt people. But other then that do you guys see a safety issue at BMO Field currently?
and I like to sit during 1/2 time......esp in hot summer....have a refreshment , catch a rest before the final crush
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Same here, I am 6'8". and the last 2 seasons there seems to have been a lot of people bringing kids to games in sections 110 and 111. I think it has a lot to do with price point, and the solution is TFC should have a designated family section at the cheapest price. And maybe even clearly mark on supporters seats that they are "obstructed view"I always feel awkward standing at sporting events. I'm 6'7", so I feel like a dink to the people behind me, especially if it's kids, but obviously if the people in front of me are standing, I can't see unless I'm standing.
Whats the expected ettiquette for giants?!
The signs are up at the stadium, but by then it is too late.
I always try to be courteous and make sure those behind me can see, and feel bad if they can't, but why should my gameday experience be compromised? Its a delicate situation.
Hillsbrough happened because they use to have big fenced in sections, the security guided way to many people into one of the sections, while another fenced in section was half empty. Once the section got way over capacity they continued to still let more people into it, and the fences ended up being death traps as more people from the back entered the section fans near the front were getting trampled by the fences and people couldn't get out. None of these stadiums look like Hillsbrough did in the 80's. These rows with bars look like they would help prevent that, and if they count tickets nothing like that should happen. Many grounds fans stand anyways in front of seats, how would it be any worse if the seats happened to fold up. Hey BMO field plastic seats are not the greatest. You hit your shins on the front and back of them. But main point is we are aloud to stand.
Im all for safe standing sections, but I don't think its much of an issue at BMO field as we all stand. It is more of a deal in say England where some stadiums don't let fans stand. Many Grounds in England are losing the loud atmosphere. This might help bring some life back.
Last edited by james; 02-19-2014 at 01:28 AM.
As someone who is a Bristol City fan, and went to many a game before I moved here two years ago, I can say that a standing area will do wonders at Ashton Gate. Theres a section at Ashton Gate that stands for a fair bit of the match (Until they are harrased by stewards to sit) anyway. At BMO everyone stands in the supporters sections anyway, so this is really a non issue here. Having ticketed "assigned seats" as such for standing areas should eliminate and Hillsbrough repeat.
I loved how the supporters stand here, and think it really added to the atmosphere. I really hope it takes off in England, and glad to see my home town team taking the first step
As someone who is a Bristol City fan, and went to many a game before I moved here two years ago, I can say that a standing area will do wonders at Ashton Gate. Theres a section at Ashton Gate that stands for a fair bit of the match (Until they are harrased by stewards to sit) anyway. At BMO everyone stands in the supporters sections anyway, so this is really a non issue here. Having ticketed "assigned seats" as such for standing areas should eliminate and Hillsbrough repeat.
I loved how the supporters stand here, and think it really added to the atmosphere. I really hope it takes off in England, and glad to see my home town team taking the first step
I know Aston Villa wanted Safe standing sections a few years ago, they were hoping to be the first in the premiership to have it installed. But it may take longer as they have more strict rules for clubs playing in Championship and even more so the premiership. Where in League 1 and 2 some teams still have old style standing terraces, the very same that were called unsafe, does that even make any sense?? yet once you get promoted to championship a team has 3 years to install seatting or else the stadium is considered not safe enough for the Championship (so the first 2 years was safe? year 3 it is a death trap? would that mean you get relegated if your stadium doesn't add seats by 3rd year?). And I think if you are in the premiership by no means are you aloud any standing terraces (but some stadiums fans still stand anyways in front of there seats, other stadiums are very strict and force fans to sit). Anyways it really doesn't all make sense, at least let stadiums install safe standing terraces like in Germany, it would be great for English football fans.
Last edited by james; 02-19-2014 at 02:04 AM.
One thing to consider about a standing section at BMO. Any move towards a standing section would most certainly be accompanied by measures to ensure that the stand is not over capacity. The most likely measure is going to be ticket checks to get into the south end. So it very will might have an impact on folks that buy tickets in other location and come over to the south end (which may be a good or bad thing)
The move is picking up steam. Villa were first, now there are seven or eight EPL clubs on board (including Man Utd). As more teams add their voice, there will be more pressure to it.
The only thing I'm torn about is that visually and physically it's very imprisoning. It kind of looks like were behind bars (I guess literally speaking we would be) and I'm not sure how I feel about that. Don't get me wrong, I've had enough drunken nuts fall or jump forward 6 rows after a goal and knock over everyone and our $1700 small beers, but I'm not sure if we'd really need this at BMO where we're still allowed to stand and chant. Just my two cents, but I do think you'd lose that ability to go nuts with the people directly in front of you and behind you if there was a 4 foot railing separating you and an additional foot high riser between us all.
First few years we would bring flags and drums and games were always sold out. After a few rather minor incidents here and there I noticed they stated to check ticket checks at the gate entrances to 112 and 113. We also started to have stupid strict rules like time restrictions you were aloud to bring flags and banners into the stadium (that one I never really understood the point of). Anyways they have seemed to let up a bit on that stuff in last couple years, Not sure if that is just because games haven't been selling out anymore or because they realize they didn't need all the extra security. I guess we might find out this year!
Last edited by james; 02-19-2014 at 02:34 PM.
Think the question was argument against it... This is a reason to put it in ASAP.
It's important to note that the Taylor report into the Hillsborough disaster did not recommend the elimination of standing terraces, as is often believed, but only that standing areas in stadia should not exceed 1/3 of full-capacity. Depending on who you read, there are strong arguments within sociology of sport that the elimination of the standing terraces in the EPL and Champions League was done more is an effort to transform the target audience of English football away from its working class roots to the more lucrative clientele in the upper and middle classes and little to do with overall safety.
I'm certain MLSE only has the working classes in mind when considering its seating options.
^^They might now after seeing the base erode - but Anselmi was certainly targeting higher than middle class targets. Part of that was enforcing no standing policies in non-supporter sections with a draconian fist.
Rogers Centre has rails in the 500's, the acc has them in the upper deck. If everyone is standing i don;t see how you'd notice it.
Interesting to know. I wonder what the reason is that they might be considering standing sections in the stadiums again? I wonder if it is complaints from fans? or maybe that teams outside of the super rich clubs could actually sell more tickets if standing sections were brought back in? Or maybe they realize other European clubs come into English stadiums and to often it is them that you here making all the noise and not the English fans, maybe it just takes away from the whole home experience? Or maybe they realize they could still sell tickets to the lucrative clientele in the upper and middle classes even with standing sections?
Last edited by james; 02-19-2014 at 09:46 PM.
there is a market for both; whether they realize that or not is another issue
For my son it works with seats, no seats would mean that we would have to go somewhere else.
And that would suck to leave the seats I have had since day one. Ones that I shared with my father at one point.
Honestly, just 'checking in' with the people behind you is usually enough. At 5'8" I often have to jostle left/right a bit or trade a couple seats over but it has always worked out really quickly.
If everyone is sitting it is worse because you can't easily move over to accommodate.
There are still seats, except that they are the fold down ones - movie theater style.
They could always move the supporters section into the middle of the east stand - folding seats are there - no reno's needed
Glad you reminded me of that - that's kind of what I'm getting at - I don't know if you know what I mean but in the 500's at Jays games, its so much more awkward to celebrate and interact with people in front and behind you because you have the steepness and the railing in the way - it's just way more confined. I don't really care, anything that could improve atmosphere would be great, I'm just not sure if this is the solution. At least for me I like that there isn't anything in between me and the guys in front and behind.
At Fleetwood Towns stadium we have terraces behind both goals, home fans in one and away fans in the other, seating along both sides, I have always stood at matches and hate having to sit at all seater stadiums, over here you tend to find the hardcore supporters,singers etc on the terraces, far better atmosphere 12th man etc, it also allows a cheaper entry charge as terraces hold more fans.
Taylor report recomended that after a certain period of time all stadiums in top league in England be converted to all seater stadiums. Football league implemented this recomendation and clubs in top leagues had to fully comply by I think around 1993-95.
a renovated stadium with closed in corners and a roof would help the atmosphere. The safe standing seats would only benefit if the Argos were to come to share BMO field, I think a lot of Argo fans would hate it, or not know what to do with the seats and then complain "why are the railings so high, we have to stand up to see over them." hahahaha
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