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    TFC had 3 DPs out there yesterday. Only 2 looked like or performed like DPs

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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostKiller View Post
    I feel like Cooper is a proper #10 and was the best man on the pitch yesterday. Bradley was really in shit form yesterday. Maybe it was because he was returning from international duty and wasn't clicking with the boys but to put that performance out there after he left the door open to an early departure from Toronto leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

    I think he is a good contributor and a valuable player but not a necessity.
    Chapman should be our starting no. 10.

    Cooper doesn't have much vision and can't see the final pass. He's better out wide where he can drift inside.

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    If they are throwing 2-3 middies at Bradley, he needs support. None of the other 3 helped him out, but Osorio REALLY was playing too high for the first 60 minutes.

    i.e. That wasn't Bradley playing crap as much as the other mids around him leaving him isolated.


    BTW, he made his usual 5-6 pinpoint line busting passes.

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    It'd be a lot easier for him if the midfielders in front of him had any clue how to work together. We need Johnson back healthy and in form, and Chapman needs to start playing again. We've played Osorio at the tip of the diamond for the last 7 consecutive games, and we have one win against Chicago to show for it. Granted, he's not the only reason we haven't been winning games; Delgado looks very tired almost all the time now, Switching Zavs and Hagglund in and out didn't do anything good for the backline, Beita's form is getting worse and worse, and we haven't had Seba. Even then, the last seven games our offense looks slower and uglier than it has since the Nelsen days. And not being able to have proper consistent build up play through the middle has had the collateral effect of putting a lot more pressure on our defense in bad areas. What the logic is in keeping this midfield right now the way it is is beyond me.

    Bradley can't be the whole midfield. We already tried that last year. Asking him to be our Anchor and our main playmaker is impossible. Midfield of Bradley, Johnson, Cooper, Chapman is a lot better than what we put out yesterday. Until we change up the personnel in the diamond i'm not going to criticize Bradley. If we aren't playing those four in the diamond come playoffs, or if we don't switch up our tactics, I think the only game we might be able to win is Philly at home. Outside that I can't picture us winning a game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by molenshtain View Post
    It'd be a lot easier for him if the midfielders in front of him had any clue how to work together. We need Johnson back healthy and in form, and Chapman needs to start playing again. We've played Osorio at the tip of the diamond for the last 7 consecutive games, and we have one win against Chicago to show for it. Granted, he's not the only reason we haven't been winning games; Delgado looks very tired almost all the time now, Switching Zavs and Hagglund in and out didn't do anything good for the backline, Beita's form is getting worse and worse, and we haven't had Seba. Even then, the last seven games our offense looks slower and uglier than it has since the Nelsen days. And not being able to have proper consistent build up play through the middle has had the collateral effect of putting a lot more pressure on our defense in bad areas. What the logic is in keeping this midfield right now the way it is is beyond me.

    Bradley can't be the whole midfield. We already tried that last year. Asking him to be our Anchor and our main playmaker is impossible. Midfield of Bradley, Johnson, Cooper, Chapman is a lot better than what we put out yesterday. Until we change up the personnel in the diamond i'm not going to criticize Bradley. If we aren't playing those four in the diamond come playoffs, or if we don't switch up our tactics, I think the only game we might be able to win is Philly at home. Outside that I can't picture us winning a game.
    The longer Bradley plays DM, the less I like him there. He's still a good player but he tries to force too much from too deep a position. he hasn't accepted that it's just an anchor role.

    Having said that, it's too limiting for him anyway. he shouldn't be at the tip or the anchor, he should be one of the two two-way mids. Just because it isn't where he's traditionally been doesn't mean it doesn't play into his skillset; he passes well, most of the time, he tackles well, most of the time, he dribbles out of trouble, most of the time; he's not a specialist, he's just a really good all-rounder.

    To me, that says play him two ways but stuck to one side, for discipline.

    Based on performance this year overall, our lineup right now should probably be

    -----------------Irwin-------------------
    Beitashour--Zavaleta--Moor--Morrow

    --------------Cheyrou--------------
    ----Bradley------------Cooper-------
    -------------Chapman-----------------
    ---------Altidore---Seba--------------------

    EDIT: And before anyone comments that Cheyrou doesn't have the legs: if you think an anchor needs the best wheels you really, really, really don't understand the position. It needs to be the person who can best read and react. And that's cheyrou, which is why he was so good there. He doesn't need wheels precisely because he doesn't have to go forward, if this is played right. It's a purely defensive/link position.

    Further, based on wheels, ball handling skills and read of the game alone, this lineup should rip it up. Really.
    Last edited by jloome; 10-17-2016 at 03:05 PM.

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    ^I like that, but I would make Cooper the tip of the diamond and put Johnson in beside Bradley.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Id put Oso in for Chapman. I know some on here are all over him for not scoring, but he is linking very very well and is strong defensively.

    the one I am not sure about any more is Beita. Morrow has had an off year but seems to be coming round, Beita seems to be going the other way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    ^I like that, but I would make Cooper the tip of the diamond and put Johnson in beside Bradley.
    Maybe, yeah. Johnson seems to have a lost a step of speed this year.

    Interesting stats this week on mlssoccer.com

    http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/m...stical-leaders

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    Besides, I don't think they are going to change Bradley's role now. Furthermore, the first goal was a simple error by Delgado, which doesn't indicate team weakness. They generally looked fairly solid both ways with Bradley at the base of a diamond.

    i still like a 3-5-2 with these players but that's unlikely.

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    The crazy idea I have is to play Xmas tree with Altodore up top, Cooper beside Gio, and Cheyrou between Bradley and Johnson
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    I'm trying to process the 10 minutes there where we played with a recessed Seba in a 4-3-3. It was very effective but everybody was tiring so I am not sure that would be a good starting formation.

    He played from where he wants to get the ball - on the left a bit back - and then charged at/passed through their defenders and mids.

    I watch the second goal again and the work by Jozy and Seba is deep thinking magic.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    The crazy idea I have is to play Xmas tree with Altodore up top, Cooper beside Gio, and Cheyrou between Bradley and Johnson
    Idea is good,but no Bradley,Champan if he is fit to play.
    Great love does not exist without joy and without great suffering ,that's why One club is worth only as much as its fans !


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    Um, people want to use Chapman instead of Bradley?


    oooookkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    I'm trying to process the 10 minutes there where we played with a recessed Seba in a 4-3-3. It was very effective but everybody was tiring so I am not sure that would be a good starting formation.

    He played from where he wants to get the ball - on the left a bit back - and then charged at/passed through their defenders and mids.

    I watch the second goal again and the work by Jozy and Seba is deep thinking magic.

    I keep thinking how long before I get a kit with Ricketts on the back.
    Nations League Canada vs USA Nov 15th!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    The longer Bradley plays DM, the less I like him there. He's still a good player but he tries to force too much from too deep a position. he hasn't accepted that it's just an anchor role.

    Having said that, it's too limiting for him anyway. he shouldn't be at the tip or the anchor, he should be one of the two two-way mids. Just because it isn't where he's traditionally been doesn't mean it doesn't play into his skillset; he passes well, most of the time, he tackles well, most of the time, he dribbles out of trouble, most of the time; he's not a specialist, he's just a really good all-rounder.
    Yeah, I've been increasingly thinking something like this over the past few weeks.

    He's kind of too expensive to be playing DM. Not really because of the money itself, but because given the money we're spending on him, we should be trying to maximize his value. I think he's been a pretty good DM this year, but at the end of the day we're still paying a guy 6.5 million dollars to make tackles and play long balls.

    Bradley has too many good offensive qualities to be nailed at DM. I've been saving the highlights of every TFC game to my hard drive for a long time now for easy access, and I was going through some from last year, and I was a bit surprised to see how much Bradley was involved in the games we won. I think a lot of people have forgotten how dynamic he can be in a box-to-box role. He killed us many times last year because he'd get caught up the field when we had no actual DM to cover, and our back line was garbage. But he was often really, really good at linking up in our build-up play, making driving runs, and delivering killer passes. For example:

    His goal vs. New England

    This game vs. Montreal where he was involved in every single chance we created
    1st and 3rd goal vs. Orlando
    Both goals in the 2-1 win vs. Montreal

    I could go on. He was our 2nd most dangerous player last year in terms of xG+xA. Those numbers have tanked for him this year, no surprise given his new role. It's too much of a waste of his ability. With our back line now, and when playing an anchored DM, we could use him as a box-to-box player without constantly worrying about getting caught on the counter.

    As far as who plays DM then, I'd be a little wary of playing Cheyrou there against counter-attack heavy teams. But with him likely leaving/retiring after this season, I don't see why Johnson couldn't play there. He has the work rate and defensive ability to be really effective. Sure, we'd lose a little passing range and he wouldn't be able to contribute offensively, but given the choice I'd rather have Bradley further forward than Johnson.
    Last edited by notthesun; 10-18-2016 at 02:12 PM.

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    I'll keep this short, and, sweet. Bradley is most effective when he plays his role, AND DOESN'T TRY TO DO TOO MUCH!! Unfortunately that last part is his biggest fault.

    Is he worth the $'s he earns...hell no. Honestly I want him to succeed, but, I'm thinking it might be time for him to move on.

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    Bradley is wasted in MLS.

    Good box to box mids are system guys. They make systems work. That just doesn't describe MLS.

    It's the Coopers and Gios that move the needle in MLS. Dallas has been the bellweather, they have had a series of creative mids. Valeri. Kljestan. dos Santos (Gerrard has really thrived in that role too).
    Last edited by ensco; 10-18-2016 at 03:08 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    I keep thinking how long before I get a kit with Ricketts on the back.
    I thought you bought one in 2008 - oh, a Canada jersey not TFC?
    Toronto 'til I die - but I think they're trying to kill me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notthesun View Post
    Yeah, I've been increasingly thinking something like this over the past few weeks.

    He's kind of too expensive to be playing DM. Not really because of the money itself, but because given the money we're spending on him, we should be trying to maximize his value. I think he's been a pretty good DM this year, but at the end of the day we're still paying a guy 6.5 million dollars to make tackles and play long balls.

    Bradley has too many good offensive qualities to be nailed at DM. I've been saving the highlights of every TFC game to my hard drive for a long time now for easy access, and I was going through some from last year, and I was a bit surprised to see how much Bradley was involved in the games we won. I think a lot of people have forgotten how dynamic he can be in a box-to-box role. He killed us many times last year because he'd get caught up the field when we had no actual DM to cover, and our back line was garbage. But he was often really, really good at linking up in our build-up play, making driving runs, and delivering killer passes. For example:

    His goal vs. New England

    This game vs. Montreal where he was involved in every single chance we created
    1st and 3rd goal vs. Orlando
    Both goals in the 2-1 win vs. Montreal

    I could go on. He was our 2nd most dangerous player last year in terms of xG+xA. Those numbers have tanked for him this year, no surprise given his new role. It's too much of a waste of his ability. With our back line now, and when playing an anchored DM, we could use him as a box-to-box player without constantly worrying about getting caught on the counter.

    As far as who plays DM then, I'd be a little wary of playing Cheyrou there against counter-attack heavy teams. But with him likely leaving/retiring after this season, I don't see why Johnson couldn't play there. He has the work rate and defensive ability to be really effective. Sure, we'd lose a little passing range and he wouldn't be able to contribute offensively, but given the choice I'd rather have Bradley further forward than Johnson.
    those highlights are excellent. Its a shame that the diamond prevents Bradley from contributing more. Maybe a change of formation?

    also interesting to see Giovinco's and Altidores touch in those videos - much better than against montreal on sunday. Rust? Rain? And Osorio looked very good in a lot of those highlights too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Bradley is wasted in MLS.

    Good box to box mids are system guys. They make systems work. That just doesn't describe MLS.

    It's the Coopers and Gios that move the needle in MLS. Dallas has been the bellweather, they have had a series of creative mids. Valeri. Kljestan. dos Santos (Gerrard has really thrived in that role too).
    This is exactly what I said when we got him, MLS was always going to be a strange fit with how specialized it is when it comes to player positions.

    He either need to specialize as a DM or AM, as a DM he is overpaid but if we consistently played him further forward I could see him get 10G 10A a year.

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    Sorry could some one give some examples of Bradley's offensive qualities? He was the root cause of the second goal on Sunday when he tried to be a box to box midfielder and ran out of ideas giving the ball up on platter for a counter attack. His free kicks and corners are quite possibly the worst I've seen in MLS and nobody seems to want to do anything about it. I don't see any signs of captaincy - picking the team up and getting them fired up. Bradley's shooting from distance is akin to Osorio. A decent DM and he has shown in the past that he can play a lot better. My guess is that he has already decided to leave and that possibly other players know that. That would explain our late season malaise (which is not quite a collapse). The contenders for the MLS cup almost all won on Sunday - good teams win when they need to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    This is exactly what I said when we got him, MLS was always going to be a strange fit with how specialized it is when it comes to player positions.

    He either need to specialize as a DM or AM, as a DM he is overpaid but if we consistently played him further forward I could see him get 10G 10A a year.
    I can't see MB specializing as an AM. Watch him in comparison to Cooper on the ball when deep in midfield. It's clear some things are missing.

    We've purchased a luxury part in a league without room for luxuries. Dedicated AM and DM, no converts, is the way to go.

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    If MB leaves this off season and we pick up a stud AM with his DP spot/salary - would anyone be heartbroken? I know with Cheyrou being a question mark for next year and Bradley gone we'd need to address DM, but I'd still see that as a promising move.
    TFC management changes: "like adding a new fish to your aquarium of failure." - Shakes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben - D.O.W. View Post
    If MB leaves this off season and we pick up a stud AM with his DP spot/salary - would anyone be heartbroken? I know with Cheyrou being a question mark for next year and Bradley gone we'd need to address DM, but I'd still see that as a promising move.
    I
    I would. Chapman is a top tier homegrown prospect and this would cost him a ton of minutes and make him redundant. I'd prefer to keep Bradley where he is and upgrade the rest of our midfield. That's where the problem is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben - D.O.W. View Post
    If MB leaves this off season and we pick up a stud AM with his DP spot/salary - would anyone be heartbroken? I know with Cheyrou being a question mark for next year and Bradley gone we'd need to address DM, but I'd still see that as a promising move.

    In MLS,a quality AM with a steady DM behind would shine better than what we have ie a quality DM with mediocre AM in front of him, imo.
    I think regardless of Bradley staying or not, that role of attacking mid/playmaker has to be looked at and will be. I just feel with Bradley's wages of the bill it opens up a much bigger market to shop for one of higher quality.
    The other question is does Bradley even want to stay, he hasn't said he wants to leave but certainly didn't shut down the rumour mill when he could have.It might well be, if we have a good run in the play offs, god forbid a really good run, that he can then leave, saying he did what he came for. All conjecture at this stage........

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    Quote Originally Posted by molenshtain View Post
    Chapman is a top tier homegrown prospect and this would cost him a ton of minutes and make him redundant.
    You're completely right - I glossed over Chapman in my daydreams of how much more confident I'd be in this playoff run if we had someone supporting our forwards beyond Endoh whipping in ineffective crosses whenever a team bunkers like a boss AM. Although Cooper is showing things I like. I would like to see Chapman keep getting chances.
    TFC management changes: "like adding a new fish to your aquarium of failure." - Shakes

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    Somebody in that midfield has to be a goal scoring threat - right now, nobody is. Cooper might be that but until he starts to score, I prefer to remain unconvinced of his scoring touch. Too many times we've had guys who score everywhere but for TFC.

    I was told Johnson is but I don't see it this season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notthesun View Post
    Yeah, I've been increasingly thinking something like this over the past few weeks.

    He's kind of too expensive to be playing DM. Not really because of the money itself, but because given the money we're spending on him, we should be trying to maximize his value. I think he's been a pretty good DM this year, but at the end of the day we're still paying a guy 6.5 million dollars to make tackles and play long balls.

    Bradley has too many good offensive qualities to be nailed at DM. I've been saving the highlights of every TFC game to my hard drive for a long time now for easy access, and I was going through some from last year, and I was a bit surprised to see how much Bradley was involved in the games we won. I think a lot of people have forgotten how dynamic he can be in a box-to-box role. He killed us many times last year because he'd get caught up the field when we had no actual DM to cover, and our back line was garbage. But he was often really, really good at linking up in our build-up play, making driving runs, and delivering killer passes. For example:

    His goal vs. New England

    This game vs. Montreal where he was involved in every single chance we created
    1st and 3rd goal vs. Orlando
    Both goals in the 2-1 win vs. Montreal

    I could go on. He was our 2nd most dangerous player last year in terms of xG+xA. Those numbers have tanked for him this year, no surprise given his new role. It's too much of a waste of his ability. With our back line now, and when playing an anchored DM, we could use him as a box-to-box player without constantly worrying about getting caught on the counter.

    As far as who plays DM then, I'd be a little wary of playing Cheyrou there against counter-attack heavy teams. But with him likely leaving/retiring after this season, I don't see why Johnson couldn't play there. He has the work rate and defensive ability to be really effective. Sure, we'd lose a little passing range and he wouldn't be able to contribute offensively, but given the choice I'd rather have Bradley further forward than Johnson.
    get rid of johnson and get another cheyrou when he retires. a version of cheyrou is exactly what we need, but healthy and a few years younger

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    Quote Originally Posted by burlington Red View Post
    In MLS,a quality AM with a steady DM behind would shine better than what we have ie a quality DM with mediocre AM in front of him, imo.
    I think regardless of Bradley staying or not, that role of attacking mid/playmaker has to be looked at and will be. I just feel with Bradley's wages of the bill it opens up a much bigger market to shop for one of higher quality.
    The other question is does Bradley even want to stay, he hasn't said he wants to leave but certainly didn't shut down the rumour mill when he could have.It might well be, if we have a good run in the play offs, god forbid a really good run, that he can then leave, saying he did what he came for. All conjecture at this stage........

    he did do what he came for, he got Altidore a starting role for a ton of $

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton_Red View Post
    Sorry could some one give some examples of Bradley's offensive qualities? He was the root cause of the second goal on Sunday when he tried to be a box to box midfielder and ran out of ideas giving the ball up on platter for a counter attack. His free kicks and corners are quite possibly the worst I've seen in MLS and nobody seems to want to do anything about it. I don't see any signs of captaincy - picking the team up and getting them fired up. Bradley's shooting from distance is akin to Osorio. A decent DM and he has shown in the past that he can play a lot better. My guess is that he has already decided to leave and that possibly other players know that. That would explain our late season malaise (which is not quite a collapse). The contenders for the MLS cup almost all won on Sunday - good teams win when they need to.
    Well, he scored nineteen goals in one season in the Eredivisie. I imagine he has a few qualities.

 

 

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