any indication if they've been talking to managers?Originally Posted by jloome
any indication if they've been talking to managers?
Hey we're just following trends here. The fact that this possibility isn't insane bullshit to us shows exactly how we view our team's management and they should look in the mirror and ask themselves why that is.
None. I know they've been talking ABOUT managers and the need to make a change and it becoming inevitable for most of June. So I imagine they have feelers out to people.
The one thing I know they're leery of is someone demanding full control again, as Bob did. My sense is that Manning agreed to it because of the man's status with the league, and was leery of doing so after Ali Curtis, but decided to go all in because it was the only way he'd sign a deal. That, and he wanted four guaranteed years.
Basically, he parlayed his LAFC supporter's shield into icon status and Manning bought it. Having said that, SO DID I. I, and others here, were excited before last season about the prospect of Bob. It really wasn't until the bad run at the start of the year that it occurred to me that he wasn't the guy.
So I suspect whoever it is will have to match a few criteria:
A) A strong, consistently winning record, probably in more than one league.
B) A track record of sticking around for a while; I don't get the sense that two-year hired guns like Bielsa and Martino are the preference, although I also haven't had any indication that they're against foreign or non-MLS managers.
C) A strong on-field coaching presence; they don't want another manager who tells his coaches what he wants and just leaves them to it. They want someone who is down their technical director's neck constantly to make sure the field training matches the tactical ambition.
D) A manager players want to play for; this isn't just hearts and flowers or the Wilfried Nancy effect, they have a lot of investment -- tens of millions -- in youth development that isn't really paying off, and there's a disconnect in nurturing talent between the first team and youth.
That's what they've been talking about as ideal. I imagine I'd add to that they probably want someone who has managed at a higher level than MLS, because we're one of the wealthier ownership groups and they need someone who can manage egos and stars as the league goes into the Messi era.
all interesting stuff, thanks.
the benefit of sacking a coach in the european offseason is that there are usually more managers available.
really hope they get someone in fairly quickly, if possible.
The nice takeaway here is it doesn't sound like they are truly in the rumoured cost cutting mode or have given up on spending on TFC. That is a big positive
Yeah, I did ask that question a day BEFORE the firing.
They're aware, dude. The constant word I've had for the last four weeks has been "none of you are wrong, we know that. We just don't know the best route to fix it yet."
Don't underestimate the role this board might've had had; I've been feeding a steady string of rather reasonable complaints to them for about three months and in the last month, increasingly the response has been "yeah, we know. It's just not working." I think when Manning saw the Italians trying their best to play the system in the first half against Cincy, but nothing coming of it, he decided this wasn't just locker room dissension over personalities, but over methodology and leadership.
Yeah, I mentioned not spending money a few times, and the answer was generally "that's not the issue, it's spending it wisely." So if the right pieces come up, they'll shell out. Hernandez only stopped playing a few years ago and is thought of extremely highly internally.
well no dont feel bad- based on TFC and Bill Manning's track record- it was perfectly justified to ask-dont let them make you feel any other way about it.
We def have reason to question each single thought process and move going forward- this basically will be a continued downward spiral or possibly franchise saving time period.
Oh to be a fly on the wall when MB heard his dad was getting canned...
Surely now the armband has to be taken away even if he comes back.
The whole father/son situation never should have happened and it contributed no doubt to the disfunction here.
Interesting bit there about MB travelling back from the coaches training Monday - did he come back early or did it finish Sunday - and discussions happening today.
I suspect the captaincy is on the table as is retirement.
I also think they desperately want to keep him around to coach the academy.
I think he should not be anywhere near our academy or team coaching...he like anyone else needs to pay his dues and prove his worth as a coach elsewhere.
Work his way up and see if he has what it takes.
Frankly, the sooner the all the Bradleys are gone the better. (2 of them gone now, MB the last one). Its been toxic here and no doubt the players in that Athletic piece said what they thought of the whole MB and BB situation..and no doubt don't think he should be captain....and lots of bad feelings towards his dad and lack of trust towards MB..and no doubt, he also is pissed at the players he knows or thinks spoke out against his dad....its all around bad. That's why the father/son coach/capitain dynamic everyone (apart from BM, BB and MB) knew would be poison, and it was. The damage is done. It will take a lot of time to heal the wounds no doubt.
One day, years from now, if he proves he has what it takes to be a successful coach, its possible he can return here...but not now, no way...he was part of this whole mess.
Again, he was a legend here...but to me has to go..he's done. He is tarnishing his legacy here now and should have been gone at least 2 years ago.
And this getting his coaching license while getting paid by us and in season is ridiculous to me. But am assuming he was given the green light by Manning.....another dumb move.
I agree with your overall point (condensing the quote above for brevity). Have given this plenty of thought and I think his presence at TFC has grown into a net negative. Root causes here are his own lack of self-awareness (familial trait it would seem) and Manning’s management style.
The legend was allowed to grow too large. Manning needed to sit him down years ago and make it clear we appreciate his work but age spares nobody and you cannot expect to start every game and never get subbed. If MB can’t accept that, we needed to part ways. But instead, Manning’s blind admiration of MB combined with his general hands-off approach meant the only people who were going to handle that conversation would have had to be Curtis, Armas, or the player’s own F’n dad!
Another blackeye for Manning here is allowing him to restructure his contract twice. Nobody should be naïve here, when you are in the room with management and you take that sort of measure you are gaining influence. Round 1 was marginal, round 2 never should have been entertained in any way.
As for MB himself, I tend to think he operates with the intention of doing good but misses obvious points about how other people see things. Historically on the field he was highly capable, tactically aware, and seen as a strong leader but not overly personal. He makes a point of being in the room with coaches. He more than likely made recommendations to annex certain players from the team. His role on the team was allowed to go unchecked for too long and well past his capabilities, which is not his fault per se (as any athlete operates on confidence and always wants to play) but still not helping him. And cherry on top his father was the coach. Nobody feels comfortable around someone with that profile.
So I agree with you, he needs to work his way up the coaching ranks. I don’t think an academy role or assistant gig would normally be a problem but given his profile he’s just going to make people uncomfortable if he stays. He needs to go.
The coaching licenses are the last thing we should be worried about. Him being out of the picture and away from the team at least temporarily solves a problem for TFC.
very likely that any games he plays this season will be the last he plays for the club.
needs to be given an absolutely rapturous ovation, the most successful player tfc have ever had.
took multiple pay cuts to allow them to strengthen the squad, takes extreme measures to make sure he was healthy to play most games every year.
i know we're all frustrated about last few years. we never get close to 2016-2019 peak without MB.
as for coaching, could stick around if he is doing his badges and helping out in younger age groups. but i agree shouldnt be near the first team.
I agree. At this point the perfect scenario in my opinion would be he comes back tail end of the season, plays in 2 more matches to become the 2nd player in club history to hit 300 appearances and allow us to give him a proper send off, then he rides off into the sunset, whether it be retirement or somewhere else. We would never have attained what we did without him, but it is time to move on. Build him his statue outside BMO, but it is time.
Yeah, agreed. I'm fine with him managing us at some point IF he proves he's a good manager elsewhere first. But it's clear we need a clean break now and that clean break involves moving on from Michael, he should not be part of the club in 2024 for everyone's sake including his own
Reminder that MB has kept playing on a team his Dad was fired from before.....it is very possible to move on from the 2022-2023 BB/MB situation and have MB coach at the academy. Will it happen? Who knows. But if I was BM or Hernandez, I would not throw out the asset that is MB's brain over this.
This is true and also if you start him low enough in the academy then he is pretty removed from the first team. Like I had no idea Dunfield was part of our academy at all until this past Monday. And he was there for seven years too. I thought he was just doing TV here and there. Give MB a solid 5 years there and see where he's at after that.
Let’s hope not. (It would be a very Bob Bradley, inflexible thing to do!)
Yeah, I don’t know what the dynamics were last time but this time he is more front and centre. Needs to move on for his own reasons (and the teams).
I'm not saying he would be with the first team - I'm very much talking about an academy role. Given he showed up Tuesday morning to the pitchside and said Hi to Dunfield indicates MB isn't persona non grata at the Training ground.
I'm just wondering if people are taking animus at his Dad and over the BB while MB is captain thing too far - there is a way to recover something here & it would be wiser to find that rather then burn the bridge.
(yes, spot the HR manager)
I appreciate Bob is separate and if it was just that I could give the benefit of the doubt.I'm not saying he would be with the first team - I'm very much talking about an academy role. Given he showed up Tuesday morning to the pitchside and said Hi to Dunfield indicates MB isn't persona non grata at the Training ground.
I'm just wondering if people are taking animus at his Dad and over the BB while MB is captain thing too far - there is a way to recover something here & it would be wiser to find that rather then burn the bridge.
(yes, spot the HR manager)
His own actions and history here are the reason why he has to leave.
What are we talking about when it comes to MB? What substantively have we heard? Apart from being the son of BB.
I have no unique knowledge here. My thoughts are simply based on what I've seen of Michael Bradley, how he carries himself, and recent events in the club we have all read about.
The big picture thought here is he positioned himself too closely with a failing management team and is perceived as too far away from the players and rank-and-file of the club.
So he's already back from Wales?I'm not saying he would be with the first team - I'm very much talking about an academy role. Given he showed up Tuesday morning to the pitchside and said Hi to Dunfield indicates MB isn't persona non grata at the Training ground.
I'm just wondering if people are taking animus at his Dad and over the BB while MB is captain thing too far - there is a way to recover something here & it would be wiser to find that rather then burn the bridge.
(yes, spot the HR manager)
Yeh, Dunfield said he flew in Monday night, went to the pitch at the start of training but had to go home due to "family things" which given he has kids could be anything from gymnastics to the flu to "Hey, Dad, you OK?" time (I note Dunfield talked openly about his 1 year old and his wife). They were supposed to have a talk Tuesday afternoon or Wednesday morning. In theory, Dunfield has to talk to media tomorrow so we'll see.
^^^^Hala and ag futbol are right. It's over.
I think it's a burn it down 2013 restart, except that Insigne/Defoe/Jozy piece is a fixed object and already here.
As part of that, MB should immediately leave TFC as a player.
I think his time as captain is way past done, he is not good enough as a player, and his role as a management figure the last two years makes him a polarizing, problematic presence in the locker room.
Do we have the buyout for 2023 left, or did we use it already?
I have no big opinion on MB as Academy coach, other than to point out two facts to the HR department (neither good). One, that's a pretty junior job for a guy whose lifetime earnings were $40M+. You want the Academy guy to be committed, a lifer. Is MB really going to slog it out for five years, or will he just move on in a few months, a la Cheyrou? He might love the work and/or love living in TO, its possible … but it's not the way to bet it. Two, he would be seen as a manager-in-waiting here. It's a negative in attracting any new manager. Maybe better for him to be an Academy coach elsewhere.
Agree he needs the right send off. I would like to see Jozy and Seba at his sendoff also, so we can properly salute all of them, something that circumstances denied when they left. (VV and Morrow and Oso would be there of course too)
Last edited by ensco; 06-30-2023 at 02:16 AM.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
I'm an optimist by nature..thus the
BB though needed to be fired, thus thethinking there.
I see your points but I think its doable.
Agree with all this. We need to move on for everyone's sake and him being involved will be an issue attracting and retaining any managers
As I said he could be a future TFC manager but the only path there is to go earn his reputation elsewhere and then if he's a viable candidate bring him back
Thinking about this a bit more, I think MB should go abroad for a while or forever. Not only because of the bad scene here but we also most likely have a better player candidate to manage in Vasquez and I would 100% put more behind him getting his badges and moving up our system than I would MB.
Also a chunk of the USMNT nutjobs have changed their tune on him now and he was being mentioned to take over that gig. Let him go there under Berhalter.
^ Hilarious. When he’s someone else’s responsibility he’s beyond questioning. When the conversation comes to managing something they care about they get skittish. Telling.
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