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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    It is an interesting observation that Bradley has never been the same since the USMNT 2018 qualification fiasco. Bradley was never again an elite destroyer after 2018 CCL, and that coincdes pretty tightly to the time where he started facing the music over losing in Trinidad in October 2017.

    It was brutal for a couple of years, he got booed in every US city every time he touched the ball. They still do it in Columbus. It didn’t affect Jozy as much, he revelled in being the monster.

    There are USMNT supporters who believe to this day that MB and Jozy dumped that Trinidad game to avoid a trip for an intercontinental playoff to Sydney, which would have happened in the middle of the 2017 MLS playoffs.
    After Drew Moor picked up his major injury in 2018 that basically started to wind down his career (made him less available and less consistent in playing time) MB never had a competent CB leader behind him to manage more of the defensive responsibilities. Since then MB has been hesitant to attack oncoming opposition with the aggression he had in prior years, I'd chalk that up to lack of confidence in those operating behind him.
    Last edited by jabbronies; 10-18-2022 at 11:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    Thanks and for context, what you were responding to was my post in the other thread so I copied it here:

    Well IMHO, he was never a technical player, at least not what I think is a technical player (ala Modric or Kova). For the Seria A time, for chievo played 35 games (1 goal), at Roma 41 games and had 2 goals and little to no assists either. Make no mistake though, was very happy when we got him. And I thought he was great for us and a big part of our success.

    I don't say he wasn't great before, not sure where that comes from? He was a great captain also.

    But to be fair also since we are looking back and you mentioned the USMT, the 2018 USMT disasterous failure to qualify for the WC was (in big part) due to him and Jozy not getting it done. And if you recall from post 2017 anytime we played outside of Toronto, they were mercilessly boo'ed everywhere we went due to that 2018 DNQ.
    Didn't you post this somewhere else word for word? Lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    The question is, do they have any other opinion on anything other than the Bradleys? I have yet to see it (oh, except that Mr. Joey Saputo is a shining light of MLS ownership).

    Seriously though, there is no "debate" when people are entrenched in positions and it gets extremely tiresome that every thread gets hijacked into a referendum on the Bradleys.
    Who is they? And I contribute on alot of the topics. I also literally put my money where my mouth is with seasons.

    PS you know I contribute on "other opinions", I gave you my opinion on Zinedine Zidane the other day which you kindly gave me a "touche" on.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by Hala Hrvatska; 10-18-2022 at 11:25 AM. Reason: typos in particular Zidane

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Didn't you post this somewhere else word for word? Lol.
    yeah, ensco posted there too to that post and then deleted it and moved it here. I then copied it here for context as it will get deleted as is a better fit here . Ensco was directly responding to my post in the other thread originally.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    Who is they? And I contribute on alot of the topics. I also literally put my money where my mouth is with seasons.
    But almost every topic you comment in will contain something along the lines of "imagine what he thinks of MB making this much $$$" or "He must be pissed having a captain who is the son of the manager". Could be a discussion on a new GK coach and it will always turn into this.

    Also he got blame for USMNT 2018 because he was captain but he was also DM. He didn't hoof that own goal (Omar) or float around and fail to do anything against T&T (Jozy).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    But almost every topic you comment in will contain something along the lines of "imagine what he thinks of MB making this much $$$" or "He must be pissed having a captain who is the son of the manager". Could be a discussion on a new GK coach and it will always turn into this.

    Also he got blame for USMNT 2018 because he was captain but he was also DM. He didn't hoof that own goal (Omar) or float around and fail to do anything against T&T (Jozy).
    Come on man, no that's not true. I get you are a Bradley fan, and all the power to you, post what you like.

    I love football and discuss all topics related to it and the team (am a seasons ticket holder). And THIS thread is specifically a MB thread, if we can't talk about him here, then where can we?

    I get he is a polarizing topic but Leeds is the one that made the "conspiracy" thread which revived this thread, so lets talk about him and bb here and keep it respectful always. CHeers.

    Hey, I was not boo-ing him and JA for the US DNQ, it was American fans everywhere we went that did that.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    Come on man, no that's not true. I get you are a Bradley fan, and all the power to you, post what you like.
    I'm actually not. I'm just fair. I think he should do the Cheyrou role and I have been saying that for 2 years now but I get why he hasn't.

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    There’s an argument for MB not being on the roster anymore and it’s based in MLS nuance.

    His salary is majorly disproportionate to his value.

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    There’s an argument for MB not being on the roster anymore and it’s based in MLS nuance.

    His salary is majorly disproportionate to his value.
    True but it wasn't when he signed it and there's others who fall into that same category (Mavinga, Bono, & Akinola come to mind). His deal is his deal and I can't see a buyout happening even if BB wasn't the manager so it's a moot point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    Who is they? And I contribute on alot of the topics. I also literally put my money where my mouth is with seasons.

    PS you know I contribute on "other opinions", I gave you my opinion on Zinedine Zidane the other day which you kindly gave me a "touche" on.

    Cheers.
    I can appreciate a good comeback!

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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    There’s an argument for MB not being on the roster anymore and it’s based in MLS nuance.

    His salary is majorly disproportionate to his value.
    Couldn't agree more. Not to mention the father/son captain dynamic is bad all around (IMHO).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    I can appreciate a good comeback!
    Appreciate it. You are far too kind. )

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    It is kind of important to separate love or hate for posts, and not extend that to posters. Pretty much everyone here has said incredibly insightful things, and dumb things. Sometimes in the same post. There are 20 or 30 really informed posters here, and they all bring something to the table (frankly, a hell of a lot more, collectively, than we get from other media)

    I have found I have never really held a grudge here, and nod at things appreciatively that someone is saying, where I thought the same person was being a bozo the day before.

    I also kind of get confused about who exactly said what when. So I deliberately don’t pay a lot of attention to who exactly said what - but I do recognize posters, and read those who I know have some history of being smart on TFC. It's a cumulative thing.

    I do think I see trolling sometimes. Not that often. I agree with efforts to call that out, it's just boring and disrupts the flow. I think sometimes the people doing it don’t realize they are doing it.
    Last edited by ensco; 10-18-2022 at 01:54 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    It is kind of important to separate love or hate for posts, and not extend that to posters. Pretty much everyone here has said incredibly insightful things, and dumb things. Sometimes in the same post. There are 20 or 30 really informed posters here, and they all bring something to the table (frankly, a hell of a lot more, collectively, than we get from other media)

    I have found I have never really held a grudge here, and nod at things appreciatively that someone is saying, where I thought the same person was being a bozo the day before.

    I also kind of get confused about who exactly said what when. So I deliberately don’t pay a lot of attention to who exactly said what - but I do recognize posters, and read those who I know have some history of being smart on TFC. It's a cumulative thing.

    I do think I see trolling sometimes. Not that often. I agree with efforts to call that out, it's just boring and disrupts the flow. I think sometimes the people doing it don’t realize they are doing it.
    Yep... cause...

    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 10-19-2022 at 11:17 AM.

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    Just finding this thread to point out in the appropriate place.

    MB does not give out "I am going to go willingly when Father Time calls" vibes.

    More

    "But, see I'm good at this still as my world reduces in size" vibes

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    Thanks OgtheDim.

    In the past, I liked MB for what he brought on and off the pitch. Love what his teammates have to say about him and how he shows up at practice and in the locker room. I have always appreciated his consistency and work rate. His stats speak for themselves.

    2022 MB stats were, once again, impressive - although declining for sure. His passes seemed to be intercepted more frequently and he has certainly lost a step which is a concern. Still has a great engine though.

    At 35, I will reserve judgement until I see him on the pitch in a couple of weeks and once again look at the stats. Data matters to me. Opinions less so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DOMIN8R View Post
    Thanks OgtheDim.

    In the past, I liked MB for what he brought on and off the pitch. Love what his teammates have to say about him and how he shows up at practice and in the locker room. I have always appreciated his consistency and work rate. His stats speak for themselves.

    2022 MB stats were, once again, impressive - although declining for sure. His passes seemed to be intercepted more frequently and he has certainly lost a step which is a concern. Still has a great engine though.

    At 35, I will reserve judgement until I see him on the pitch in a couple of weeks and once again look at the stats. Data matters to me. Opinions less so.
    Show me data that tells us when he leaves his man unmarked in the box or gets burned for pace consistently. No the eye test is what matters

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    Quote Originally Posted by DOMIN8R View Post
    Thanks OgtheDim.

    In the past, I liked MB for what he brought on and off the pitch. Love what his teammates have to say about him and how he shows up at practice and in the locker room. I have always appreciated his consistency and work rate. His stats speak for themselves.

    2022 MB stats were, once again, impressive - although declining for sure. His passes seemed to be intercepted more frequently and he has certainly lost a step which is a concern. Still has a great engine though.

    At 35, I will reserve judgement until I see him on the pitch in a couple of weeks and once again look at the stats. Data matters to me. Opinions less so.
    In fairness, I think you’re seeing an evolution of what the position is too. A really good DM now has an extensive passing range can play balls between the lines and over the top in addition to the simple lay-off / sideways passes.

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    All the 2022 stats show Bradley as a fairly average DM in MLS.

    Few great games, bunch of poor ones, and a ton of meh ones.

    He isn't the best, he isn't the worst, and he isn't worth the TAM deal based on current form but it is what it is. He isn't like a Bono level DM out there being forced in to tank us.

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    I think, others said it too (someone else posted this a long time ago) …. that Bradley, in order to protect himself because he lacks closing speed, now sits back too much, and allows too much open space in front of him. This wouldn’t show up in the stats.

    It's really obvious when you see better DMs from other teams play against us. Really noticed it when Philly (Martinez) or Vancouver (Cubas) played us. Those guys are marauding (is that a word?)
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    All the 2022 stats show Bradley as a fairly average DM in MLS.

    Few great games, bunch of poor ones, and a ton of meh ones.

    He isn't the best, he isn't the worst, and he isn't worth the TAM deal based on current form but it is what it is. He isn't like a Bono level DM out there being forced in to tank us.
    40% mediocre, 30% good, 20% bad equals upper level mediocre... which for a 35-year old isn't bad.

    His defensive numbers aren't helped by his age and speed but that's not why he's not an elite DM. He's never been one. He's not a DM. He was a number eight at Chievo, he was a number 8 in Germany, he was a number 10 in the Eredivisie.

    He is a progressive two-way passer who blocks channels and reads movement well, and can untangle the middle of the park with good movement and short passing. He's not an offensive threat. He's not a defender. He never has been. He played there, effectively, under Vanney. But we had so much more possession under Vanney, and such a good back line in terms of stepping up, that most of his duties were basically number eight-style double pivot duties anyway.

    I think we need a defensive midfield specialist in some games. It's clear that if we're going to push the back line very high and try to pin other teams in, speed will sometimes be an issue.

    But that doesn't turn his mediocre-to-good on average performances into the root of the problem. It DOES speak to blind spots from successive managers about the need for having more than four (and sometimes even just two) defensive players on the pitch.

    If we had a DM and MAK/Bradley rotated the other spot, with Oso starting whenever possible, I think we'd do better. One of the tests this season for me is whether Bob's system can work in MLS. I am skeptical, as it seemed to me last year he was using a rotating triangle in the middle, and too often the three midfielders did not know where they were supposed to be.

    When two were supposed to be high and one back, inevitably, the one back wasn't deep or central enough to cover. So I'm not convinced it isn't a poor tactical choice. Clearly, when Oso dropped back under Vanney during MB's short injury spell in 2020, we were a better unit with two deep eights and a 10. I'm not sure "anyone can be the 10, anyone can be the 8" works (assuming that's what he's even trying to do; that's what it looked like from a layman's perspective.).

    EDIT: And I dispute this "face of the franchise whether we like it or not" argument. He literally features in ONE ad this year, and he's in the background. No one is pushing Michael Bradley as the face of the franchise or a ticket seller.
    Last edited by jloome; 02-04-2023 at 01:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I think, others said it too (someone else posted this a long time ago) …. that Bradley, in order to protect himself because he lacks closing speed, now sits back too much, and allows too much open space in front of him. This wouldn’t show up in the stats.

    It's really obvious when you see better DMs from other teams play against us. Really noticed it when Philly (Martinez) or Vancouver (Cubas) played us. Those guys are marauding (is that a word?)
    Also that first 4-1 loss to NY, when Amaya kept stepping up constantly and breaking us up, barely over the half line. He's small but his speed and mobility make him a very effective DM.

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    I think the final conclusion here is that Michael Bradley is a good player (who used to be great) who can still serve a purpose on the field. But his role needs to be reduced to continue to get the best out of him until his contract expires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    I think the final conclusion here is that Michael Bradley is a good player (who used to be great) who can still serve a purpose on the field. But his role needs to be reduced to continue to get the best out of him until his contract expires.
    My concern is by whom.

    MAK is a true 8; he is good at holding possession and linking play, but he is weak defensively and even weaker offensively.

    Oso is an 8/10. If he had more acceleration, he'd probably be a winger. He did well dropping into the 6 role repeatedly for half a season, three years ago, and is a good marker and tackler. But he's wasted in that role.

    Bradley is a number 8, like MAK, but with better decision making and passing accuracy (albeit now mostly just from the middle third to an outlet).

    WE don't have ANY naturally defensive minded midfielders. It just feels like a mistake. What happens if the three 8s doesn't work, if they're just getting bypassed again?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    40% mediocre, 30% good, 20% bad equals upper level mediocre... which for a 35year old isn't bad.
    Succinct and agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    ...I think we need a defensive midfield specialist in some games...
    Of course! Agree... a VI, 6, Six... the number of a beast is needed. O Where Art Thou a Marcelo Brozovic-like/lite (without the politics)?

    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    ...But that doesn't turn his mediocre-to-good on average performances into the root of the problem. It DOES speak to blind spots from successive managers about the need for having more than four (and sometimes even just two) defensive players on the pitch...
    BB must realize? No? Otherwise, someone, Sorber or Stalteri, remove that blinder.

    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    ...When two were supposed to be high and one back, inevitably, the one back wasn't deep or central enough to cover. So I'm not convinced it isn't a poor tactical choice. Clearly, when Oso dropped back under Vanney during MB's short injury spell in 2020, we were a better unit with two deep eights and a 10. I'm not sure "anyone can be the 10, anyone can be the 8" works (assuming that's what he's even trying to do; that's what it looked like from a layman's perspective.).
    I suspect Delgado was part of that equation. To Be Or Not To Be... a single or the double pivot at times may be a question this season.

    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    EDIT: And I dispute this "face of the franchise whether we like it or not" argument. He literally features in ONE ad this year, and he's in the background. No one is pushing Michael Bradley as the face of the franchise or a ticket seller.
    I will disagree with you on this only in the sense that while he is not among the main marketing faces for the club, nor should he be any longer, lots of others deserving to feature moving forward, he is though, IMHO, TFC's current puppet-master; yields the realpolitik power in that locker room for now.
    Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 02-05-2023 at 06:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    My concern is by whom.

    MAK is a true 8; he is good at holding possession and linking play, but he is weak defensively and even weaker offensively.

    Oso is an 8/10. If he had more acceleration, he'd probably be a winger. He did well dropping into the 6 role repeatedly for half a season, three years ago, and is a good marker and tackler. But he's wasted in that role.

    Bradley is a number 8, like MAK, but with better decision making and passing accuracy (albeit now mostly just from the middle third to an outlet).

    WE don't have ANY naturally defensive minded midfielders. It just feels like a mistake. What happens if the three 8s doesn't work, if they're just getting bypassed again?
    Our midfield will continue to get overun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    Our midfield will continue to get overun.
    Our 3rd DP when ever he arrives must be a replacement for Bradley , all current positions look strong Bradley still the weak link. Also Hala don’t think I have congratulated you on Croatias fine World Cup performance , just amazing how a country of 5 million constantly produces so many top notch footballers, Soccer Canada would be wise to hire some Coaches from that country to get our program up to snuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by Section 223 View Post
    Our 3rd DP when ever he arrives must be a replacement for Bradley , all current positions look strong Bradley still the weak link. Also Hala don’t think I have congratulated you on Croatias fine World Cup performance , just amazing how a country of 5 million constantly produces so many top notch footballers, Soccer Canada would be wise to hire some Coaches from that country to get our program up to snuff
    Definitely agree on the replacement for Bradley. All we can hope for now is there is a rotation of some kind and he retires at the end of this year.

    And thanks so much for the congrats. We should also get some Cro players here, harkening back to the old Toronto Metros Croatia days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    Definitely agree on the replacement for Bradley. All we can hope for now is there is a rotation of some kind and he retires at the end of this year.

    And thanks so much for the congrats. We should also get some Cro players here, harkening back to the old Toronto Metros Croatia days.
    That was a great 1976 team wish we had a #9 at TFC similar to Croatian Ivan Lukacevic used to love watching him play for Metro-Croatia, it’s still hard to believe we also had Eusebio in a Toronto uniform , great memories.

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    I will repeat what I said in the post game thread.

    His leadership style doesn't fit what this team needs now. There are people who want to move this team beyond the "we gotta just be all personally responsible" approach he takes to something more systematic & cohesion focused.

    The game is not what it was in 2017. He won't do it, but he should relinquish the captaincy.

 

 

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