2014 Success

[Hustle]

In this order: BMO to be loud and full again...party atmosphere...Hot babes in red everywhere. Playoffs. Voyageurs Cup.

[Abou Sky]

Was going to put this in the Mickey Mouse thread, but decided to revive this thread instead.

Leiweke may think competing for megaplayers will change everything, but that was never first on my list.

No more bad soccer.

I don't care who they sign, I'm not watching bad soccer.

That is what is worrying about the preseason.

+1

If this flops, TFC is FUCKED!

[Phil]

Was going to put this in the Mickey Mouse thread, but decided to revive this thread instead.

Leiweke may think competing for megaplayers will change everything, but that was never first on my list.

No more bad soccer.

I don't care who they sign, I'm not watching bad soccer.

That is what is worrying about the preseason.

Given what this team has endured in the past I totally get where you are coming from. All we can do is hope it is working out the way they plan it. This is part of my confusion with Nelsens coaching. I really like what he has done off the pitch with his contacts but when it comes to on field stuff I scratch my head a bit.

[themodelcitizen]

SS, MLS Cup, V-Cup and CCL cup.

Yeah, I am greedy like that.

what, no Club World Cup? You mentioned CCL, and the earliest we can win that is next season, same as the CWC

[Pookie]

I'm going to put this here too. This board is full of lots of comments regarding the "time to gel" excuse and single examples of preseason results not meaning anything. Valid points or simply setting the excuse table?

Ladies and Gentlemen, there is the other side of the coin.

The NY Red Bulls of 2010 went from worst to first.

They had a new GM in Dec of 2009 and a new coach as of Jan, 2010. They had massive player turnover. Adding players like Carl Robinson, Tony Tchani, Joel Lindpere, Tim Ream, Chris Albright, Greg Sutton and quite a stable of other draft picks and home grown players. 12 new players and that was just in the winter. They also added Henry, Marquez and others throughout the season.

NY had a preseason record of 8-0-2. They scheduled 10 games for a team to get to know each other. Some were against lower sides and some against MLS teams.

They went 4-1-0 in April and by the end of June were 8-5-0.

All the factors that are being lined up as excuses were in play for NY but they overcame them. It is not unreasonable to expect the highest paid roster in the history of MLS to have success and find it early on.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I'm going to put this here too. This board is full of lots of comments regarding the "time to gel" excuse and single examples of preseason results not meaning anything. Valid points or simply setting the excuse table?

Ladies and Gentlemen, there is the other side of the coin.

The NY Red Bulls of 2010 went from worst to first.

They had a new GM in Dec of 2009 and a new coach as of Jan, 2010. They had massive player turnover. Adding players like Carl Robinson, Tony Tchani, Joel Lindpere, Tim Ream, Chris Albright, Greg Sutton and quite a stable of other draft picks and home grown players. 12 new players and that was just in the winter. They also added Henry, Marquez and others throughout the season.

NY had a preseason record of 8-0-2. They scheduled 10 games for a team to get to know each other. Some were against lower sides and some against MLS teams.

They went 4-1-0 in April and by the end of June were 8-5-0.

All the factors that are being lined up as excuses were in play for NY but they overcame them. It is not unreasonable to expect the highest paid roster in the history of MLS to have success and find it early on.

Good example but I would consider that one to lean more towards exception instead of rule.

The expectation is undeniable. When everyone chooses to turn, lose it, however one wants to phrase it, is up to them.

[brad]

I'm going to put this here too. This board is full of lots of comments regarding the "time to gel" excuse and single examples of preseason results not meaning anything. Valid points or simply setting the excuse table?

I'm one of those that raised it. IMHO it's a valid point. I've been watching this game for a lot of years, and teams that have a high turn over rarely do well out of the gate. Players switching to new teams, new leagues with different styles of play often take time to adapt.

In the MLS - many (maybe even most) DP's take time to adjust to the league - even up to a year. Many South American players struggle in their first year.

To me - there are just to many "what if's". We need a bunch of players to come together quickly and start playing as a team right away. We need all 3 new DP's to hit the ground running, despite the fact that history points against this.

I don't see that as an excuse, I see it as reality. That said, TL has promised the moon, and I expect him to deliver it. The team didn't gel in time, we had too many injuries, ect, ect are just excuses.

Ladies and Gentlemen, there is the other side of the coin.

The NY Red Bulls of 2010 went from worst to first.

They had a new GM in Dec of 2009 and a new coach as of Jan, 2010. They had massive player turnover. Adding players like Carl Robinson, Tony Tchani, Joel Lindpere, Tim Ream, Chris Albright, Greg Sutton and quite a stable of other draft picks and home grown players. 12 new players and that was just in the winter. They also added Henry, Marquez and others throughout the season.

NY had a preseason record of 8-0-2. They scheduled 10 games for a team to get to know each other. Some were against lower sides and some against MLS teams.

They went 4-1-0 in April and by the end of June were 8-5-0.

All the factors that are being lined up as excuses were in play for NY but they overcame them. It is not unreasonable to expect the highest paid roster in the history of MLS to have success and find it early on.

A valid point, but with a sample size of one. Which says it can be done, but should we expect it? Far more teams that have turned over their roster have been poor for a year or two then gathered steam as they held the core together.

Now - the point about the 10 preseason games is interesting. I'm not a fan of the complete roster not being here (Defoe should be from day one - but I suspect that wasn't an option for TFC). The club should be banging through pre-season games with the first 11 playing the bulk of the matches.

[brad]

I wrote a detailed post about this in the superclub thread - quoting it here as it's a bit more relevant.

I don't think I am underestimating either Bradley or Defoe. I am cautiously optimistic, however I am seriously tempering my expectations based on a number of factors:

*In general, it takes players time to adapt to a new league.
*In general, whenever a team adds a bunch of new players it takes time for them to gel as a team
*It doesn't matter how good the players are, it takes a good manager to get results out of them

Specific to the MLS
*Euro DP's rarely hit the ground running. They usually take time (up to a season) to adapt.
*South American players usually take time, again, up to a season to adapt to the league.
*Being an MLS Allstar doesn't mean much - Brennan was one...

All that said, sure, we might have a stellar season and be one of the best teams in the league. But that that depends on lot stars aligning. We need Bradley, Defoe and Gilberto to buck the trend and hit the ground running. We need to gel as a team very quickly. We need to hope that DeRo last year was not an indication of what DeRo this year will be like.

And the big X-factor no one seems to discuss - we had better hope that an in-experienced Nelsen can turn this team into a winner. That he can outclass more experienced managers tactically. That he can get the team playing together in a competent style. That he can keep hold of the dressing room. That he can rotate his squad and not burn the DP's out. That he can make impactful subsitutions. All of this remains to be seen.

That said - I think Nelsen will do okay. My expectations for this season are that we do alright for the first half of the season - some good results, some bad ones, and start to hit form around July or August. Hopefully at that point we are within touching distance of the playoffs and can make a push from there.

All of this is of course injury dependent. If Defoe and Bradley go down, we are still IMHO a fairly average MLS team.

[Canary10]

^ You are far too rational . Totally agree with this.

[themodelcitizen]

The NY Red Bulls of 2010 went from worst to first...

...NY had a preseason record of 8-0-2. They scheduled 10 games for a team to get to know each other. Some were against lower sides and some against MLS teams.

Now see why this doesn't apply?

[brad]

Now see why this doesn't apply?

It applies for sure, but you have to factor in that it is a sample size of one when deciding if that is the norm or the exception. It says it is possible, but not how likely. Personally, I think it an exception (based on the fact that many of the good MLS teams assembled their core and weren't very good initially), but have no hard data to back it up.

[Cashcleaner]

I want this:




And a legitimate shot at this:




Oh, and if we play our cards right, we might be able to put together a good campaign for this:

[jloome]

It applies for sure, but you have to factor in that it is a sample size of one when deciding if that is the norm or the exception. It says it is possible, but not how likely. Personally, I think it an exception (based on the fact that many of the good MLS teams assembled their core and weren't very good initially), but have no hard data to back it up.

But it's not a factor size of one; Chicago won the league as a new franchise, RSL went from out of the playoffs to the title, and DC United went from Worst to first. It's happened at least five times in a league that's only 18 years old.

[themodelcitizen]

It applies for sure, but you have to factor in that it is a sample size of one when deciding if that is the norm or the exception. It says it is possible, but not how likely. Personally, I think it an exception (based on the fact that many of the good MLS teams assembled their core and weren't very good initially), but have no hard data to back it up.

The point is we've had a woeful preseason. Using a team who went 8-2 in preseason isn't really an example we can aspire to

[brad]

But it's not a factor size of one; Chicago won the league as a new franchise, RSL went from out of the playoffs to the title, and DC United went from Worst to first. It's happened at least five times in a league that's only 18 years old.

In one year? RSL took two or three. Chicago was an expansion team in a very different time. Not sure about DC.

Who are the other teams that went from last to best in one year?

[Yohan]

In one year? RSL took two or three. Chicago was an expansion team in a very different time. Not sure about DC.

Who are the other teams that went from last to best in one year?

Teams that missed playoffs and made huge improvements next season

2008 Columbus Crew: missed playoffs in 07, 20 pts improvement, Supporter's Shield, MLS Cup
2009 LA Galaxy: missed playoffs in 08, 15 pts improvement, runner up Supporter's Shield, MLS Cup finalist
2010 NY Red Bulls: missed playoffs in 09, 30 pts improvement, Eastern Conference winners
2011 Houston Dynamo: missed playoffs in 10, 16 pts improvement, MLS Cup finalists (SKC also had a huge improvement from missing playoffs)
2012 San Jose Earthquakes: missed playoffs in 11, 28 pts improvement, Supporter's Shield winner (DC also had huge improvement from missing playoffs)
2013 Portland Timbers: missed playoffs in 12, 23 pts improvement

I agree with you that teams need to gel and team chemistry doesn't happen overnight, but MLS is one of those leagues that if you find the magic bullet, you can go on a helluva run. And a lot of luck. Relying on finding that magic bullet and luck is not a good way to build a team though

[LFC_TFC]

My success includes keeping talented young players on our roster like Laba, oh wait...

[brad]

Teams that missed playoffs and made huge improvements next season

2008 Columbus Crew: missed playoffs in 07, 20 pts improvement, Supporter's Shield, MLS Cup
2009 LA Galaxy: missed playoffs in 08, 15 pts improvement, runner up Supporter's Shield, MLS Cup finalist
2010 NY Red Bulls: missed playoffs in 09, 30 pts improvement, Eastern Conference winners
2011 Houston Dynamo: missed playoffs in 10, 16 pts improvement, MLS Cup finalists (SKC also had a huge improvement from missing playoffs)
2012 San Jose Earthquakes: missed playoffs in 11, 28 pts improvement, Supporter's Shield winner (DC also had huge improvement from missing playoffs)
2013 Portland Timbers: missed playoffs in 12, 23 pts improvement

I agree with you that teams need to gel and team chemistry doesn't happen overnight, but MLS is one of those leagues that if you find the magic bullet, you can go on a helluva run. And a lot of luck. Relying on finding that magic bullet and luck is not a good way to build a team though

Do you know if any of these teams turned over as many players as we have when doing so? Genuinely curious if these teams improved that much by building on a solid core or if it was a rip and replace job that did it.

[Yohan]

Do you know if any of these teams turned over as many players as we have when doing so? Genuinely curious if these teams improved that much by building on a solid core or if it was a rip and replace job that did it.

2010 NY and 2013 Portland for sure

Edit: 09 LA, 12 SJ a bit

[Red CB Toronto]

This team is going to seriously need to sign at least some depth players at least for some cover during the World Cup. The roster currently sits at 25 players under contract including a long term injured player (Dike), a 3rd and 4th string Gk and two recent home grown academy signings. So when you factor out those guys out of the equation in terms of making a decent contribution to the club, you are at 20 players ready to go.

Now there are also three unsigned draft picks in camp. In my eyes Nick Hagglund is the only sure fire signing, so will have to see what happens with the other two.

[Fort York Redcoat]

My success includes keeping talented young players on our roster like Laba, oh wait...

Instead of Bradley? Oh.

[brad]

This team is going to seriously need to sign at least some depth players at least for some cover during the World Cup. The roster currently sits at 25 players under contract including a long term injured player (Dike), a 3rd and 4th string Gk and two recent home grown academy signings. So when you factor out those guys out of the equation in terms of making a decent contribution to the club, you are at 20 players ready to go.

Now there are also three unsigned draft picks in camp. In my eyes Nick Hagglund is the only sure fire signing, so will have to see what happens with the other two.

EDIT: just saw in another thread that this is wrong. Players are leaving earlier than the break.


I'm not so sure it will be a problem, unless England and/or the US make a deep run (which I doubt). MLS is taking a break during the Group Stages. Our last game before is on June 7th, the next one is on June 27th (vs NYRB).

Brazil are likely to go deep. If Brazil make the final, Cesar will miss 4, possibly 5 games. Bendik is fine here. We can get a league loaner for backup if needed (assuming Roberts is out on loan).

USA's last group game is the 26th. Bradley probably won't play on the 27th.
England's last game is on the 24th. Defoe is a possibility, but maybe unlikely for the 27th.

If England or USA make a deep run there would be an additional 2 games - Chicago on July 2nd and DC on July 5th. Basically, it looks like if any team makes the Round of 16, Chicago is out, if any team makes the Quarter finals, DC is also out. I'm not even going to consider the US or England making it to the final

[trane]

CL success, playoffs.

A proper riot in the stands. (joke)

[Wince]

What is the minimum that TFC can achieve this season for you to still consider the season a success, and walk away happy?

Signing better plays and managing the team better (which already seems to be happening), a sign that the ship has finally been righted?
More wins/points than last year? More wins/points than TFC has ever reached before?
Being in the playoff race late in the season?
Making the playoffs?
Supporter's Shield?
MLS Cup?
CCL?

Emphasis on MINIMUM achievement for this thread. For me, I'll settle for meaningful late season games, so being in the playoff hunt for me.

Bumping this thread back to the top. Perhaps a mod could change the title to read 2015 Success?

My minimum threshold this season will be not only making the playoffs, but advancing at least past the first round.

[Ivy]

My success includes keeping talented young players on our roster like Laba, oh wait...

edit: my bad, didn't realize this thread was from 1876.