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  1. #61
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    I think a case can easily be made for both. I'll leave it to RN to decide, but I don't think we can go wrong with either as captain. Although I definitely lean towards Caldwell retaining it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazza View Post
    The flack that our best all-time player gets around here is pretty comical at times. DeRo has never been a locker room cancer. He's a strong personality, but he's a leader and a winner. He'll be the least of our problems.
    Seriously? I can already see him being a problem based on the last 4-5 days.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    Bradley would make a good captain. He is known for being a leader on the field. A lot of USMNT supporters thought he would be there captain, and want him to be.
    Right.. but, that's the U.S. national side that people think he would be a perfect fit for, as captain; language barrier and a number of other variables can sometimes play a role in whether or not a natural born leader is suited to a specific leadership role and, as much as I love, love, love this signing, the optics of an American walking in and snatching our Canadian side's armband is a totally different story, especially as we embark upon what will likely be our most memorable season, to date. Given the chance to endear himself to the fans, it could well prove to be a no-brainer for him to captain TFC.. but, with him locked up for 6 years, I don't see why we should force things and potentially cause a bit of a stir, in so doing.

    I just feel like the captaincy, here, has been thrust upon nearly every past captain; I'd like for it to mean something to the person taking it on. As Shakes had alluded to, elsewhere, the players coming in aren't going to have an affinity for Toronto, the city nor club -- certainly not right away; after some time, they may well have and perhaps would aspire to take on such a role as captain.

    Yes, Caldwell's not been here long, but, I don't see the rush in handing it to Bradley. You even have to wonder if Bradley and the like would have to fight off their own subconscious mind from thinking that the club is Mickey Mouse -- that they're above everyone else, when they, not only walk right into the side, but, take the captaincy from a well-respected and extremely important member of the club, as Caldwell, given the difference he's made, since joining, undoubtedly is.

    We have, at least, a couple years with Caldwell, in which to see who organically stands out as a natural pick.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Seriously? I can already see him being a problem based on the last 4-5 days.
    Haha right? DeRo will be Ryan Nelsens biggest challenge...hopefully he doesn't score more than defoe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shwade View Post
    Haha right? DeRo will be Ryan Nelsens biggest challenge...hopefully he doesn't score more than defoe.
    Not sure if you are, but there are people on twitter and Facebook seriously suggesting DeRo is as good as Defoe. Things like "Disrespect to DeRo to not have him on the new banner" and "Should be 4 people up there." etc. etc. etc. Some people need a reality check as to both how good DeRo was and how good he is now. I hope he contributes. But the man is being paid to provide a winning attitude, not to do that winning on his own.

  6. #66
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    Of our 26 current roster players (included Laba, didn't include Eckersley), 20 are returning from last year. That's some good continuity. At the end of last year, you could see that the players who were there were playing for each other, and not just mailing it in. How much of that is on Nelsen, and how much of that is on Caldwell being captain? Just for continuity, I see Caldwell remaining captain. Also, as has been noted in the past, players put way less emphasis on the armband than fans and journalists do. Bradley and Defoe will be leaders on and off the pitch, regardless of whether they have the armband. Same goes for DeRo for the young Canadians.

    Now, with DeRo, I don't think there are going to be any problems. He signed his contract well aware that he was coming in as a depth player/potential starter, rather than being THE guy. It would also have been dumb idea for management to avoid telling him that they were targeting potentially multiple big players (Gilberto was already signed at this point). The very fact that DeRo was even at the press conference (he knew beforehand what it was about - he tweeted a few days in advance welcoming Defoe and Bradley to TFC) means that there will be less issues than he had in the past.

    Now, if 10-15 games in, DeRo has brought the goods and has double the amount of goals than Defoe, then there might be issues, but I doubt it. DeRo signed this contract full well knowing that there he is not the top dog, and he should be very motivated if the option year is big money based on performance this year.

  7. #67
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    Cronaldo coming in wouldn't dissuade DeRo from thinking he's the man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakes McQueen View Post
    If Los Angeles can do it en route to two MLS Cups, we should be able to navigate the egos too.

    - Scott
    And New York has never been able to navigate them thus far. Quarter final exits, no Open Cup.

    Since the Beckham arrival, there have been 7 Cup finals. 2 won by LA and 5 won by the likes of Colorado, SKC, Columbus, RSL and Houston.

    If you were an odds guy, they seem to favour the teams with the smaller gaps in spending though of course the sample size is small.

    TFC can manage it if the players believe there is equity in management. That all are held to the same standards.

    While salaries are different, the starting 11 will be treated the same in terms of results in the court of public opinion. If Bendik lets in a bad one, he wears the horns. Henry doesn't mark a player and it leads to a loss, he wears them. And while the media and casual fan might focus on that one moment in a game, the players know that there are many moments in a game that make a difference in the outcome. That can lead to some challenging situations particularly if the lower paid folks don't think that the higher paid guys are going all out and they are wearing the horns .

    Reminds me of 2009 when only a very young Sam Cronin had the courage to step in front of the cameras and answer questions following that 5-0 NY loss. The "stars" were no where to be found. That situation can't repeat and Nelsen has to have the stones and ability to apply equal treatment to all... entourages aside.

    If he can, it may work. If he can't, well, here we go again.
    Last edited by Pookie; 01-15-2014 at 10:51 AM.

  9. #69
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    Great thread and good posts, Pookie.

    I really don't follow the Leiweke = LA Galaxy logic. LA is Bruce Arena.

    And lets not forget - LA didn't win a cup until the fifth year Beckham was on the team. Everything we know about this league is that spending does not equal immediate success.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    And New York has never been able to navigate them thus far. Quarter final exits, no Open Cup.

    Since the Beckham arrival, there have been 7 Cup finals. 2 won by LA and 5 won by the likes of Colorado, SKC, Columbus, RSL and Houston.

    If you were an odds guy, they seem to favour the teams with the smaller gaps in spending though of course the sample size is small.
    Is be curious to see salary distributions between the teams you mention. 3 DP's tie up a lot of your cap in 3 players. I wonder if the other teams were built in such a way that the cap was spread around more allowing for more depth. Might not be, without DP's they could still have players at the max an be in the same state cap wise.

    Still - it's interesting to me. What is the best path to success in this league. Load up with three quality players and make the most with what you have left? Or build a deeper squad that doesn't have te individual quality, but is better/deeper overall.

    I've always wishes we'd go the RSL route rather than the LAG route. But we've gone the LAG route, so I'll strap in, enjoy the ride and hope Defoe doesn't tear his ACL the first time he plays on turf....

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    Quote Originally Posted by spark View Post
    Great thread and good posts, Pookie.

    I really don't follow the Leiweke = LA Galaxy logic. LA is Bruce Arena.

    And lets not forget - LA didn't win a cup until the fifth year Beckham was on the team. Everything we know about this league is that spending does not equal immediate success.
    The thing that stands out about LAG when the started winning was not how good the DP's - but the quality of the rest of the team.

    That was their key - the rest of the team was a really solid MLS side. When the DP's were out for a period, they still got decent results. And as you mention - that was all Bruce A. He deserves massive credit for assembling the rest of that team. It's not easy to build a good team on the sorts of salaries those guys make.

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    ^ again brad, I don't worry at all about the league's assigned budget (or cap as it has become known as). Budgets are paid down with allocation money and given that amounts and reasons for allocation are never published, the budget can flex significantly. Whether these DPs take up a big portion of the gap is never known... they might take up the same amount as DeRo for all we know or might take 1/3 of the pie. Until transparency exists, it's just a guess.

    What I think is a big issue is the actual size of the paycheque. That's what goes into the player's bank accounts and when a guy takes the bus to work and another drives a Ferrari, that's something deep in human nature that would be noticed.

    A quick look at MLS salaries by club and by year (base compensation) shows that the difference between the highest and lowest paid player on the MLS Cup winners and finalists (not including LA) was about $200-300k. If you compared starters, the differences were likely less than that.

  13. #73
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    "Let him be the captain; you be the star." -- These words, directed at Landon Donovan concerning David Beckham wanting to be captain of LA Galaxy, were, apparently, the start of their "feud". Donovan didn't mind Beckham being the captain - but felt disrespected because of the way he was asked to hand it over.

    Hopefully, Defoe and Bradley read Grant Wahl's "The Beckham Experiment" to get an idea about what they may be in for. It gives good insight. Apparently, unlike Donovan, Beckham didn't pick up a single team dinner tab in his first year -- although he called team meetings at restaurants. Beckham was so accustomed to having meals with fellow millionaire players he didn't realize many of his teammates relied on their $40 per diem to get by. However, much of the real disillusion with Beckham came with his loan to AC Milan. Many supporters and fellow players (including Donovan) felt Beckham was not really committed to the Galaxy. They felt he was just using the MLS as a money grab and wasn't interested if the team won or not. Other players felt they were being used and their opportunities for success at something they really cared about was being squandered. Of course, that book was written in 2009 and everything changed for the Galaxy and Beckham after that.

  14. #74
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    Things may have gone better in LAG if DB was actually fit when transferred and if Simon Fuller and other Brand Beckham impressarios didn't try to run the team behind Lalas back (or in front of his face for that matter). Once both those got sorted out, things improved.
    No one likes us, we don't care.
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    One of the reasons why they won MLS Cup was because all 3 quality DPs saw consistent minutes and were in form over the playoffs.

    We haven't had a DP who hasn't been injury-prone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    The thing that stands out about LAG when the started winning was not how good the DP's - but the quality of the rest of the team.

    That was their key - the rest of the team was a really solid MLS side. When the DP's were out for a period, they still got decent results. And as you mention - that was all Bruce A. He deserves massive credit for assembling the rest of that team. It's not easy to build a good team on the sorts of salaries those guys make.
    Agreed. The "Domestic Core" is the engine that drives most teams. It has certainly driven all the MLS Cup winners without big names and as you highlight, was a great contributing factor in LA's success. Eg. Omar G was drafted by LA and is now one of their DPs. Do we have a current young player on our roster that we think would grow into a DP?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Not sure if you are, but there are people on twitter and Facebook seriously suggesting DeRo is as good as Defoe. Things like "Disrespect to DeRo to not have him on the new banner" and "Should be 4 people up there." etc. etc. etc. Some people need a reality check as to both how good DeRo was and how good he is now. I hope he contributes. But the man is being paid to provide a winning attitude, not to do that winning on his own.
    Wasn't suggesting anywhere near DeRo being as good as defoe lol. Just don't want another 'incident' if he ends up bagging more than, let's say, Bradley...(which he should).

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Cronaldo coming in wouldn't dissuade DeRo from thinking he's the man.
    Canary, I really get that you don't like DeRo (its extremely obvious!) but I don't see anything wrong in footballers saying they are great and having ego's. In MY opinion, a great ego makes for a great footballer! Especially good forwards, they need to be selfish, that's why they score goals and make solid decisions in front of the net. I also see how sarcastic DeRo is when he says he's great. In the presser last Friday I could see him smirking when he was saying "that's why they signed me", DeRo laughed afterwards too, as I'm sure he knew there was a certain irony to his statement (I'm sure he already knew that Defoe and Bradley were on their way).

    Mourinho calls himself "the special one". Yea, its kinda funny, but its his ego that also makes him a damn good manager! If you take that ego away, he would be half the manager he is. DeRo can keep his ego, I think it makes him a good footballer and adds to his quality.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Agreed. The "Domestic Core" is the engine that drives most teams. It has certainly driven all the MLS Cup winners without big names and as you highlight, was a great contributing factor in LA's success. Eg. Omar G was drafted by LA and is now one of their DPs. Do we have a current young player on our roster that we think would grow into a DP?
    Absoluely, true. It will be a testament if Nelsen could develop say Jonathan Osorio into an Attacking Midfielder that can say score 12 goals in a season. A goal not unrealistic considering how many he scored last year on a bad team. Osorio would be that current young player I think most of us agree that has the greatest chance into developing into a DP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Do we have a current young player on our roster that we think would grow into a DP?
    I think both Henry and Osorio could very well be DPs in the future, or find their way to Europe, I do think we have true talents in them

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    Keeping the dressing room is the most vital task facing R.N.
    Reading Fergies book makes you realise how difficult this is.
    ALL of the players have to be on the same page for a club to be successful.
    If there is a problem it gets removed immediately.
    Players can hate each others guts outside but inside DO YOUR JOB.


    K

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Yes, he was our best player.

    He's not anymore.


    His selfishness on the pitch is not only documented, he has said himself in the last week that this will continue. "I want the ball" is what he has said. Given our 3 DP's, and in particular how DeFoe is documented to be the same sort of player, (give him the ball and he will shoot), DeRo is definitely a potential issue for the locker room.

    If he can change himself and pass when before he usually shot or dribbled, then he is an asset. We will see. But DeRo's has stated his game is give him the ball - and with Defoe and Gilberto and Bradley, that is just not going to happen.

    Its up to Nelsen to get these guys on the same page.
    One of the best players the MLS has ever seen. Has won titles and individual trophies. Teammates and coaches love him. Single-handedly won us the Canadian Championship and yes, was our best player.

    He's always been a confident guy, and has never caused problems in the locker room. Of course he wants the ball, and he has always worked well with teammates up front. Some times he's been guilty of doing it all himself which I can't blame him for since I've seen those games for the national team or tfc and wondered who the heck he had to pass it to?

    I think people are still clinging to that poor-judgement gesture he made out of frustration when he was promised the world to uproot his family and lived up to his end of the bargain, when all the promises were broken that were made to him. Injury and age have caught up with him, but he wants to prove he still has it, and I think we'll benefit from that.

  23. #83
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    I'm not basing my opinion on that gesture.

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    Bradley captain should not even be up for discussion this guy is a born leader tough as nails a natural leader if you hear people who know him and have followed his career you soon figure out that it's an easy call Bradley captain end of story. In terms of DeRo and all the haters out there already jumping to conclusion that he will be a problem child on this team relax take some medication if it will help, if somehow this team does not perform which I doubt at an expected rate from the start, the guy to blame will be Nelson and no one else!

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    Quote Originally Posted by levyashin View Post
    Keeping the dressing room is the most vital task facing R.N.
    Reading Fergies book makes you realise how difficult this is.
    ALL of the players have to be on the same page for a club to be successful.
    If there is a problem it gets removed immediately.
    Players can hate each others guts outside but inside DO YOUR JOB.


    K
    Or read The Beckham Experiment.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  26. #86
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    Given that nelsen managed to alienate 3 of our more loyal and professional players last year (Frei, Koev and Ecks), I'm not 100% convinced his man-management skills are where we'd like them to be. Hopefully he learned something from it but judging by his comments at the end of year presser, I doubt he actually did. If he treats some of the players coming in like that, I think we're going to see some problems although winning does seem to make everything less of an issue so here's hoping

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wull View Post
    Given that nelsen managed to alienate 3 of our more loyal and professional players last year (Frei, Koev and Ecks), I'm not 100% convinced his man-management skills are where we'd like them to be. Hopefully he learned something from it but judging by his comments at the end of year presser, I doubt he actually did. If he treats some of the players coming in like that, I think we're going to see some problems although winning does seem to make everything less of an issue so here's hoping
    Bendik proved his worth our true #1. Frei lost his spot.
    Koev was injured the whole time any only scored in reserve game. Nelson wanted him to play but Koev couldn't get fit.
    Ecks is do to make $400,000- $500,000 this year. Not worth it, why put time into someone you know won't be playing the following season. And his form was questionable. Ecks had his opportunity to play, got injured and lost his spot.

    Caldwell had nothing but praise for Nelson. Say he is biased or whatever but gave Nelson his confidence. I think context is very important and we tend to forget about it. Prime example is Nelson's post game interviews. If you read the transcript you get a very different perspective then from listening to an audio/video of the same conversation.
    Last edited by pdubs; 01-15-2014 at 10:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pdubs View Post
    Bendik proved his worth our true #1. Frei lost his spot.
    Koev was injured the whole time any only scored in reserve game. Nelson wanted him to play but Koev couldn't get fit.
    Ecks is do to make $400,000- $500,000 this year. Not worth it, why put time into someone you know won't be playing the following season. And his form was questionable. Ecks had his opportunity to play, got injured and lost his spot.

    Caldwell had nothing but praise for Nelson. Say he is biased or whatever but gave Nelson his confidence. I think context is very important and we tend to forget about it. Prime example is Nelson's post game interviews. If you read the transcript you get a very different perspective then from listening to an audio/video of the same conversation.
    Also, keep in mind how some of our media was framing those quotes in their stories and reports. there are a few of them who have made it clear how they felt about Nelson's appointment from the beginning and IMHO it showed throughout the season.
    Side before self, every time - The one and only Billy Bremner
    Supporting TFC and Leeds United : Never a dull moment

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    Quote Originally Posted by bman27 View Post
    Also, keep in mind how some of our media was framing those quotes in their stories and reports. there are a few of them who have made it clear how they felt about Nelson's appointment from the beginning and IMHO it showed throughout the season.
    exactly I think it is overblown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pdubs View Post
    Bendik proved his worth our true #1. Frei lost his spot.
    I agree with you on the first part. But Frei never got a chance. (Yes, I remember the shellacking in Montreal, but still).

 

 

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